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RIM Considering Breaking up Company

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  • Jul 6th, 2012 8:08 pm
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As a Blackberry user for more than a decade for work, I can't wait for the company to fold and to be moved to a modern Android/iOS device fast enough.

Don't get me wrong, for basic text based communication, snapping a couple of crappy pictures and videos, and checking some html based email, it works well enough. If that's all you need for work, it'll do the job.

Web surfing is a painful experience. Screen is too tiny. Forget about decent image quality from the camera. And apps? What are those?

Sure, the Blackberry was the cat's meow in 2000-2006. Too bad Rim has shown little ability to keep up with demand for technology advances and application support since that era.

The keystone is the security of the BBM service. As soon as a 3rd party vendor gets it's act together and develops a high level security application for Android and iOS with worldwide coverage to allow the same seamless integration Rim has, it's game over for the Blackberry.
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A lot of people will be loosing RIM jobs soon... it must feel great for some, not so much for others.. depends on their preferences
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Mark77 wrote: Hype or not, Apple can spread the R&D effort over a huge number of phones while RIM has certainly lost that market forever. I believe it would be easier for Apple or even Android to eventually architect in the comprehensive security framework/features that RIM offers, than it would be for RIM to build up a developer ecosystem.

I remember Apple pushing the Apple Student Developer program heavily, where students could obtain Apple hardware and software at heavily subsidized rates. Aside from a BlackBerry being a door prize at a Nortel student event, circa 2000-2001 -- I've never heard of RIM doing much to reach out to the potential developer community.

I've hear dthat BB Devs actually make more money on BB Platform than any other, not sure how this can be true when it has a smaller userbase. Also RIM did embrace devs by inviting them to the Developer conference BB10 Jam and offer devs $10,000 for maping apps for the upcoming B10 OS.
noob666 wrote: aren't all the phone are the same now day ?

they have not improve anything from like hmmmm.......so many years, nothing ground breaking at least

that's why they are just like another NT

that's why there stock price trade under $10 which apple is an trillion ahead of them (even samsung is a better company)
Yes Samsung is a better company but its not fair to compare it to RIM, Sammy sold more deivices than apple last year, which menas they also sold more than RIM.

A lot of companies are better off than RIM, they are fighting an uphill battle they may not win, at least not in my lifetime.
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Looks like RIM is going the way of the Palm. That is sad for me, I had loved my Palm Pilots and I love my Blackberry and I don't need a massive screen or fancy apps, I use my phone as a phone and communcation device and I need buttons! I love how my phone pairs with my Playbook. I agree that now a days everything is about hype and marketing and people wanting the latest and greatest.
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Asoul wrote: Looks like RIM is going the way of the Palm. That is sad for me, I had loved my Palm Pilots and I love my Blackberry and I don't need a massive screen or fancy apps, I use my phone as a phone and communcation device and I need buttons! I love how my phone pairs with my Playbook. I agree that now a days everything is about hype and marketing and people wanting the latest and greatest.
I'm a Palm fan as well !! I'm actually using a Palm pixi right now that my friend gave to me as a gift. Touchstone and all. But even that, they've lost their old Palm most useful capability. Like Security per record, and Memo, and universal search !!

I used to be able to find, say "this guy I met at a Las Vegas conference a few years ago... what was his name again??" On my Palm Centro/Pilot, I would type in the FIND: vegas , then ALL occurrences of this word would come up, and if this guy's name came up in the results in Contacts, I tap on that and I would see in his Contact notes, I wrote: "met in Las Vegas conference 2002". I can no longer do that !!!
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confused wrote: A lot of people will be loosing RIM jobs soon... it must feel great for some, not so much for others.. depends on their preferences
If only they all shorted their company's stock. They'd all be rich.

then again, they probably have some rules not allowing that (but only if they got audited hehe)
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Hairball wrote: But is it necessarily a problem that they are focused on enterprise? That was what their focus was, you can't be everything to everyone. There isn't necessarily one device fits all or one platform fits all in technology. Is it really in their interest to be a company full of hype like Apple?
Look at the valuation of Apple vs RIM and you tell me which company has their act together. Apple has more cash than the US treasury at this moment. The golden rule: cash is king. Innovation does not mean you have to have the best product but can be other things like your ability to sell your product. Don’t underestimate the power of being able to market your products and carve out a brand. Jobs has successfully made it insanely “cool” to own an Apple product. You can have the best product in the world but without a talented team of marketers you are not going to get that full penetration you want. Apple made a product so user friendly that even computer illiterate people can use. I can’t give my playbook to my computer illiterate dad and have him pick it up as fast as an ipad. That’s the difference between full market penetration vs staying in your niche market that is shrinking as we speak.

I hated the BB (and only one) I got years ago in 2003 as email/texting was nasty since my fingers were fat, scrolling was hard, and BBM isn’t my thing. Fast forward almost a decade and I’m still hearing the same complaints. Honest, they had nearly a decade to make improvements. You would think they would listen loud and clear in the mid 2000’s.
rfdrfd wrote: If only they all shorted their company's stock. They'd all be rich.

then again, they probably have some rules not allowing that (but only if they got audited hehe)
Would depend on their stock option agreement. It looks bad to short your own employer LOL
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Mark77 wrote: Sad to see this happen, for another industry-leading Canadian company to reach its demise because of what appears to be managerial incompetence. Just like John Roth attempted to cultivate a cult inside Nortel, it appears Ballsile and Lazardis did the same, wasting their efforts on philanthropy, rather than staffing up with the best engineers to keep their products out in front.
For the record - the problems at RIM never had anything to do with engineering at all. The problems started at the top and ended at the top - stupid decisions and stupid execution. Had nothing to do with hiring the right engineers, had to do with hiring the right managers and getting rid of the top. Too bad the change came far too late.

Everything that RIM engineering was told to do, they always did very well. The problem is they were told to do stupid things at stupid times.
Mark77 wrote: Aside from a BlackBerry being a door prize at a Nortel student event, circa 2000-2001 -- I've never heard of RIM doing much to reach out to the potential developer community.
RIM sent every person who ported their Android application to BB App World a free Playbook. I would say that is a pretty good reach-out to the community.

Again - this is not the problem, at least not anymore. The problem is - RIM is now way too late to the game - in fact they were late to the game in 2009 and 2010, when the writing was already on the wall, and any tech-savvy consumer could see it coming, even though the analysts could not. Upper management failed to recognize the changing landscape around them, and it destroyed them. It is too bad because BB 10 is actually a great looking OS - the problem is, that is now irrelevant. There is not enough market for four viable app ecosystems - even three is a stretch. Why do you think the global market consolidated on Windows and Mac in the '90s? It is not because IBM did not employ smart people, or BeOS was a bad OS, or that OS2/Warp was a bad OS - it was because of poor decisions and poor execution compared to Microsoft.
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brunes wrote: For the record - the problems at RIM never had anything to do with engineering at all. The problems started at the top and ended at the top - stupid decisions and stupid execution. Had nothing to do with hiring the right engineers, had to do with hiring the right managers and getting rid of the top. Too bad the change came far too late.

Everything that RIM engineering was told to do, they always did very well. The problem is they were told to do stupid things at stupid times.



RIM sent every person who ported their Android application to BB App World a free Playbook. I would say that is a pretty good reach-out to the community.

Again - this is not the problem, at least not anymore. The problem is - RIM is now way too late to the game - in fact they were late to the game in 2009 and 2010, when the writing was already on the wall, and any tech-savvy consumer could see it coming, even though the analysts could not. Upper management failed to recognize the changing landscape around them, and it destroyed them. It is too bad because BB 10 is actually a great looking OS - the problem is, that is now irrelevant. There is not enough market for four viable app ecosystems - even three is a stretch. Why do you think the global market consolidated on Windows and Mac in the '90s? It is not because IBM did not employ smart people, or BeOS was a bad OS, or that OS2/Warp was a bad OS - it was because of poor decisions and poor execution compared to Microsoft.
I agree with everything that was said above, RIM made good products but were way too late to the game. I never had a bad blackberry and quality was always top notch and I think the Playbook was rushed out before it was ready for the general public, the hardware was good.
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Thanks, I needed a laugh today! So many self-proclaimed experts in this thread have things all wrapped up in a neat bow. Confirmation bias is running full steam in here.
It'll be fun to see what these same 'experts' say in 9 months :razz:
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slim_shady wrote: Thanks, I needed a laugh today! So many self-proclaimed experts in this thread have things all wrapped up in a neat bow. Confirmation bias is running full steam in here.
It'll be fun to see what these same 'experts' say in 9 months :razz:
Do you have a prediction for that time frame? ...or is no conjecture the only acceptable response?
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lol the funny thing is when my friend bought RIM stock around 40, i told him it was going to 20. when it had that huge drop into the high 20s, and bounced off of it, he didnt believe me, until it kept sliding and hit 20. i re-evaluated the updated news and financial situation and told him it was going under 10. now he calls me a prophet. hahah

i wouldnt short the stock any more here, but rather just watch it all play out, but it was kind of funny to see my predictions actually come true, like a 'prophet' that got lucky :p

while there is a good probability the company will go BK, there is also a chance someone will be dumb enough to buy them. probably not for more than 10-15 per share though


i dont buy the keyboard advantage because its like your grandma in the 90s complaining computers were too complex for her.

RIM is so focused on enterprise, they overlooked that for ecosystem products that are both used at home, and at work, enterprise, at least at the employee interfacing level, will adapt and use what consumers want to use. proof of this is demonstrated with all the companies beginning to support employees using android and apple phones instead of their BBs
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setell wrote: Look at the valuation of Apple vs RIM and you tell me which company has their act together. Apple has more cash than the US treasury at this moment. The golden rule: cash is king. Innovation does not mean you have to have the best product but can be other things like your ability to sell your product. Don’t underestimate the power of being able to market your products and carve out a brand. Jobs has successfully made it insanely “cool” to own an Apple product. You can have the best product in the world but without a talented team of marketers you are not going to get that full penetration you want. Apple made a product so user friendly that even computer illiterate people can use. I can’t give my playbook to my computer illiterate dad and have him pick it up as fast as an ipad. That’s the difference between full market penetration vs staying in your niche market that is shrinking as we speak.

I hated the BB (and only one) I got years ago in 2003 as email/texting was nasty since my fingers were fat, scrolling was hard, and BBM isn’t my thing. Fast forward almost a decade and I’m still hearing the same complaints. Honest, they had nearly a decade to make improvements. You would think they would listen loud and clear in the mid 2000’s.



Would depend on their stock option agreement. It looks bad to short your own employer LOL
It's pretty obvious that RIM has made serious mistakes. They could've worked things out better to their advantage by meeting the needs of their core customers better.

As good as the mass market is, I can foresee there will be continued demand for advanced technical products for enthusiasts. Yes, Apple products are known for ease of use, but they are also well known for severe restrictions on what you can do on them. Their approach is a walled garden approach is a travesty in my opinion, and lots of tech enthusiasts will feel the same way.

It's like the desktop PC market, everyone has been calling it "dead" for the last 5-10 years. Sure, people might not buy preassembled PCs as much, but lots of people are still buying PC parts. It's less important than what it once was, but it isn't insignificant.

You can crunch numbers and all, but understanding how technology works is a little more than a few financial statements. It's just part of the picture.
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All I have to say is, this sounds like Nortel all over again. And I worked at Nortel before we got declared bankruptcy and sold off to different companies. it's going to be a slow painful death
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slim_shady wrote: Thanks, I needed a laugh today! So many self-proclaimed experts in this thread have things all wrapped up in a neat bow. Confirmation bias is running full steam in here.
It'll be fun to see what these same 'experts' say in 9 months :razz:
Not sure what to make of this. Are you saying you expect RIM to turn around and in 9 months be anywhere near $20 / share?
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brunes wrote: Not sure what to make of this. Are you saying you expect RIM to turn around and in 9 months be anywhere near $20 / share?
Well, share price is a crapshot because the market is anything but rational and given their sentiments about RIM it will lag significantly (understandably too, of course).
General adoption, brand perception, app availability, sales, that's the area I expect to be improved in 9 months. However, this is assuming that RIM can continue to pull off their long overdue shift in thinking and approach... they've finally got their heads out of their asses and are getting developers on board, and finally getting that it's a consumer's market... as long as those positive traits are continued as they have been in the past months there is no doubt that RIM will continue to be a major player (although likely a 3rd place player, but given the market size that's no shame and can be a benefit if played correctly).

(then again, it's not like I'm stocking up on more RIM shares right now :razz :)
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slim_shady wrote: Well, share price is a crapshot because the market is anything but rational and given their sentiments about RIM it will lag significantly (understandably too, of course).
General adoption, brand perception, app availability, sales, that's the area I expect to be improved in 9 months. However, this is assuming that RIM can continue to pull off their long overdue shift in thinking and approach... they've finally got their heads out of their asses and are getting developers on board, and finally getting that it's a consumer's market... as long as those positive traits are continued as they have been in the past months there is no doubt that RIM will continue to be a major player (although likely a 3rd place player, but given the market size that's no shame and can be a benefit if played correctly).

(then again, it's not like I'm stocking up on more RIM shares right now :razz :)
I would love to see RIM gain some traction as they seem to be on a slippery slope instead. I don't know enough about the market since I only follow it as a hobby but it's freaking hard to crawl your way up vs go down. Especially in a 9 month time frame from ~$9 to $20! That is quite the achievement then if RIM can do it! Plus brand issue is very hard to fix in such a short period of time. As to apps, last time I was at the app store with my playbook it was really bad.

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