Computers & Electronics

RIM's slide continues...

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  • Jun 2nd, 2012 12:14 am
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Dec 25, 2010
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RIM's slide continues...

Maybe of little interest, but thought some may find the following interesting (and/or sad ?)

"Stock now down 13% and sliding.

RIMM stock was just halted, preceding an announcement that JPM and RBC have been retained for "strategic purposes", as well as an operating loss warning for Q1 and notification of major headcuts. In other words, the endgame for RIMM is here: either the company finds a suitor or it may well be game over. For the benefit of RIMM longs we sure hope FB is eager to spend some of its cash soon if not quite soon."


P.S. Anybody still hoping for the $99 playbook :)
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For the past three years, I've predicted RIM was not going to be able to compete with Apple/Samsung/HTC, and that they were going to be in big trouble.

However, I am surprised how quickly their share price has slide from $95 - $75 down to under $10. A 90% drop.

That means Apple can suffer the same fate when another firm invents devices that Apple cannot compete with. (And just as quickly too.)

Makes investing in technology stocks really scary.
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Aug 10, 2010
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Busybuyer888 wrote: For the past three years, I've predicted RIM was not going to be able to compete with Apple/Samsung/HTC, and that they were going to be in big trouble.

However, I am surprised how quickly their share price has slide from $95 - $75 down to under $10. A 90% drop.

That means Apple can suffer the same fate when another firm invents devices that Apple cannot compete with. (And just as quickly too.)

Makes investing in technology stocks really scary.

Technology is always disruptive like this. I would rather invest in Energy :P
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desidealer49 wrote: Technology is always disruptive like this. I would rather invest in Energy :P
+1000 if investing for long term - short term, not so sure, may slide a lot more :confused:
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Nothing new here. RIM wrote itself off when they laughed at the iphone.
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sandikosh wrote: Nothing new here. RIM wrote itself off when they laughed at the iphone.
lol, great line - well they ain't laughing now, that's for sure. And just to add that most investment institutions were recommending RIM as a "buy" just 6 months ago. Now that's outright scary :cheesygri
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Jul 14, 2010
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RIM's going to slide, sure, but they aren't going to disappear into nothingness without outside investment. Their market hasn't completely evaporated (Especially internationally), and you need to remember that their fall was from a meteoric success. They had (and have) a good deal of air between themselves and the ground.

They're going to need to lean up and figure out how to re-target themselves, but I can't see RIM dying any time in the near future.
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They need to re-market their blackberries as paper weights. I'd hit it.
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oldpro wrote: lol, great line - well they ain't laughing now, that's for sure. And just to add that most investment institutions were recommending RIM as a "buy" just 6 months ago. Now that's outright scary :cheesygri

Add RIMM to the the list of companies lead by CEOs whom did not understand their industry. Both Jim and Mike clearly did not understand the exploding oppourtunity in which they were at the forefront. The longevity of a company's existence, depends on the understanding the reasons for the current sucesses, and understanding where the next sucess is going to come from. (The huge economies of scale of the vast consumer market vs. a corporate centric market.)

RIMM really drank too much of their own Koolaid. "Best keyboard ... rah rah rah !!!", "No keyboard = toy ... rah rah rah !!!".

Not sure about Mike, but Jim clearly was not focused/obsessed about RIMM. Jim's chase of a 2nd NHL franchise in Ontario will always be questioned. Bill Gates and Steven Jobs both lived and breathed Microsoft/Apple. They had nothing else in their minds.

Also, both Apple and Microsoft have been well known to encourage open disagreement to reveal new lines of business and oppourtunities. RIMM's well known government like approval heirarchy/culture instead killed ideas and innovation.
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Busybuyer888 wrote: That means Apple can suffer the same fate when another firm invents devices that Apple cannot compete with.

Since when has the presence of superior technology prevented Apple from making money?
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Time and time again you see very profitable companies completely drain their resources to compete be #1. What is wrong with being a niche player and dominating your niche? RIM has a money printing machine, they make money from hardware sales and they make money from service subscriptions in both the consumer space and the business space. Any other company would give their left testicle to have customers willing to pay monthly/quarterly/yearly for service subscriptions, RIM has that but they risk everything to go after a market that is based solely on one time hardware purchases and the empty promise of making money off app purchases. I will take lots of easy money over lots and lots of hard money any day of the week.
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JAC wrote: Since when has the presence of superior technology prevented Apple from making money?

I suspect Apple felt that way in 1985. I'm not suggesting we're at exactly the same place, but they certainly do appear to be at something of a crossroads.
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Mar 9, 2009
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This ad says sooo much about the state of the company. "try writing a 1000 emails on a touchscreen.." Yet this company is betting it all on touchscreens :/ pathetic. That's what nepotism gets you, unqualified people. Btw, with IOS 6 coming out, Windows Phone 8, and Google Still improving Android, I really don't see BB10 able to compete with these giants when they aren't bringing anything new to the table.
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toalan wrote: Time and time again you see very profitable companies completely drain their resources to compete be #1. What is wrong with being a niche player and dominating your niche? RIM has a money printing machine, they make money from hardware sales and they make money from service subscriptions in both the consumer space and the business space. Any other company would give their left testicle to have customers willing to pay monthly/quarterly/yearly for service subscriptions, RIM has that but they risk everything to go after a market that is based solely on one time hardware purchases and the empty promise of making money off app purchases. I will take lots of easy money over lots and lots of hard money any day of the week.

Maybe you missed the news but the RIM CEO already warned that when the quarterly report is release RIM's gonna be in the red (ie. losing money). Add to the fact that they are sitting on about $1 billion worth of unsold blackberry and playbook hardware that nobody wants to buy. There's also hints that the next BB10 OS is going to be delayed even further. There subscriber base isn't enough to keep them profitable and I'm willing to bet a majority of the subscribers are there because they are still stuck on a contract and would quickly leave if given the choice. It's really a snowball effect and its hard to stop unless you got some game changer coming up and from the general lack of interest/wow of BB10 it doesn't look like they can turn it around. Even if they released BB10 and the new phones out today it still wouldn't wow, the hardware and software seems so last year. The best RIM can really hope for is someone to buy them out but that might be a tough sell as well because while there patent portfolio looks good the majority of there patents (Nortel patents) is shared and may not be transferable.

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Ascott wrote: RIM's going to slide, sure, but they aren't going to disappear into nothingness without outside investment. Their market hasn't completely evaporated (Especially internationally), and you need to remember that their fall was from a meteoric success. They had (and have) a good deal of air between themselves and the ground.

They're going to need to lean up and figure out how to re-target themselves, but I can't see RIM dying any time in the near future.

RIMM has a serious cash burn rate. At their current stock price their options to raise money for continued operations become limited. (ie. loans, vs. stock offering)

Many here don't understand the RIMM is spending R&D dollars at a similar scale to Apple/Samsung for each product, but only able to sell 1/4 of the units that Apple/Samsung does (for example). That means R&D is 2 to 4 times as expensive, so products will soon become uncompetitive, or becomes a cash strain/drain.

Because RIMM is not selling the same number of units, they cannot get the same discounts as Samsung/Apple does for compnonent orders (ie. weaker negoiationg position).

Apple & Samsung will continue to lower the price of their products to kill weaker competitors (Nokia & RIMM)

All this of course leads to being uncompetitive in the eyes of their customers. (No-one wants to walk around with a has been product/company.)

The next two quarters are not going to be any picnic ... additional inventory write downs and serverance payouts for the laid off staff.

It actually becomes a death spiral. I think RIMM could be on life support within 18 months.

Lets be honest, who is going to sign a 3 year contract with a RIMM phone if RIMM stock is below $5? (i.e penny stock)
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Ascott wrote: RIM's going to slide, sure, but they aren't going to disappear into nothingness without outside investment. Their market hasn't completely evaporated (Especially internationally), and you need to remember that their fall was from a meteoric success. They had (and have) a good deal of air between themselves and the ground.

They're going to need to lean up and figure out how to re-target themselves, but I can't see RIM dying any time in the near future.

Regarding RIMM's market ... except for terrorists/rioters/goverments where high security comm is required, this international market is going to die even quicker.

In China, no-one is going to buy from a company that is in trouble. Expect Chinese sales to fall off the cliff within two quarters.
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hmm wrote: This ad says sooo much about the state of the company. "try writing a 1000 emails on a touchscreen.." Yet this company is betting it all on touchscreens :/ pathetic. That's what nepotism gets you, unqualified people. Btw, with IOS 6 coming out, Windows Phone 8, and Google Still improving Android, I really don't see BB10 able to compete with these giants when they aren't bringing anything new to the table.

Funny commercial. Even funnier was that today I sat behind a guy with a blackberry on the Go bus. For 1/2 hour, he was busy navigating with the arrows and typing with his thumbs. I think he replied to about 10 emails. Yes, I was that bored without my smart phone. I wondered how many more emails he could have answer with the point and click and a predictive virtual keyboard.
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dec12 wrote: Funny commercial. Even funnier was that today I sat behind a guy with a blackberry on the Go bus. For 1/2 hour, he was busy navigating with the arrows and typing with his thumbs. I think he replied to about 10 emails. Yes, I was that bored without my smart phone. I wondered how many more emails he could have answer with the point and click and a predictive virtual keyboard.

The Android SWYPE keyboard system is another innovation that makes an actual keyboard unneccessary.
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LeeBear wrote: Maybe you missed the news but the RIM CEO already warned that when the quarterly report is release RIM's gonna be in the red (ie. losing money). Add to the fact that they are sitting on about $1 billion worth of unsold blackberry and playbook hardware that nobody wants to buy. There's also hints that the next BB10 OS is going to be delayed even further. There subscriber base isn't enough to keep them profitable and I'm willing to bet a majority of the subscribers are there because they are still stuck on a contract and would quickly leave if given the choice. It's really a snowball effect and its hard to stop unless you got some game changer coming up and from the general lack of interest/wow of BB10 it doesn't look like they can turn it around. Even if they released BB10 and the new phones out today it still wouldn't wow, the hardware and software seems so last year. The best RIM can really hope for is someone to buy them out but that might be a tough sell as well because while there patent portfolio looks good the majority of there patents (Nortel patents) is shared and may not be transferable.

-LeeBear
The still do have a money printing machine, but at the rate they were throwing money away it could not keep up. It makes no sense to me that they would build up over a billion dollars of inventory for a product that has no proven track record. Betting big is fine though, but betting so big on a product that is missing core software components and has no track record, that is just dumb.

As bad as the last 5 years has been, it will look like a vacation compared to the pain ahead in the next 5 years. When they were in the black they made stupid decisions, now that they are in the red and the pressure is increasing, they will make even dumber decisions.

RIM's only hope is to put massive rebates on all their products and direct all rebate submissions to the shredder.
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I feel sorry for their employees, many will be out of a job soon. Families will have hard time making ends meet, new hires fresh out of school can't pay student loans... :(

All because of incompetent leadership.

In 2007, this is what an exec at RIM said of the iPhone, generation 1.

“The recent launch of Apple’s iPhone does not pose a threat to Research In Motion Ltd.’s consumer-geared BlackBerry Pearl and simply marks the entry of yet another competitor into the smartphone market, RIM’s co-chief executive said in an interview,” Wojtek Dabrowski reports for Reuters.

Dabrowski reports, “‘It’s kind of one more entrant into an already very busy space with lots of choice for consumers,’ Jim Balsillie said of Apple. ‘But in terms of a sort of a sea-change for BlackBerry, I would think that’s overstating it.’”


Funny what 5 years time has done to the once almighty RIM.

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