[Elect] Rogers: Nokia Lumia 710: $255 no contract. Works on wind/moblicity! BLAZING!!

[chimp]

This is the problem with Windows Phone, you have to do hacks and jump through hoops to get a badly needed and incredibly useful feature that works out of the box on pretty much every sub $100 Android phone.

With idiocy like this, Windows Phone is not going to gain market share quickly.

I gave Windows Phone a fair shot and the experience is generally decent judged on its own merits, but far behind Android. It will improve but this is the state of things in Jan. 2012.

And Microsoft is to blame for this problem by leaving it at the carrier's discretion to enable this feature. Very poor decision. Mango should have enabled hotspot functionality by default in all phones it updated.

I love Microsoft's PC software but they remain clueless and useless in the mobile market.

I am not sure what you mean by fair shot. Anyone follow Microsoft long enough(and not much difference from android/ios actually) that the first version of new thing is bound to be incomplete and lacking.

I would say WP7 if you look at the timeline is actually better than Android/iOS in terms of progress. Mango being the second revision is already better than iOS or Android at that stage.

At this moment, they are not a challenger but wait for W8 which will be out soon and Nokia is still at the early stage of converting to WP. Don't rule them out so fast.

[disolitude]

Plus that Lumia 900 ..... hungh, can't wait to get it later this year

And that one will have Wifi tethering right out of the box.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC_8YotST6Q

[Kurtz7834]

First of all, this feature works on Android 2.2 and up. 2.1 and before not so much without rooting. You're jsut lucky that you bought 2 android phones which were on 2.2...

Secondly, I respect that you maybe didn't have a pleasant experience but vast majority of reviewers praise the experience of the windows phone. Combine with the satisfaction rates that well above android in any survey, and we can conclude that you are the exception and not a rule.

Problem here is that you didn't say "Ok which windows phone has features I need?" and buy that one. Instead you went for the cheapest deal which may not have been tailored to what you were looking for. I mean, you're complaining about the weight but you bought a phone that has a hardware keyboard...and lack of wifi tethering, which the phone didn't have when you bought it. I wouldn't call that giving it a fair shot....

Android and iOS control the smartphone market with Android being ahead of iOS in market share. Windows Phone has a tiny share. Is there massive unhappiness with Android phones? No. And very few people are actually using a Windows Phone right now. Nuff said.

I could go on at length as to why I feel Android is better and technical stuff but this is not the place for that. Windows Phone is a useable OS with some problems. I am probably one of the 'geekier' phone users and I don't like the phone OS limiting me. Android doesn't, Windows Phone does.

Getting back on topic, it's kind of hard to recommend this Lumia at this price when it lacks hotspot abilities and it's unclear if and when it will be getting it.

[chimp]

Getting back on topic, it's kind of hard to recommend this Lumia at this price when it lacks hotspot abilities and it's unclear if and when it will be getting it.

that I agree but my hunch is that only a small percentage of people(like us) who care about wifi hotspot.

[Kurtz7834]

I am not sure what you mean by fair shot. Anyone follow Microsoft long enough(and not much difference from android/ios actually) that the first version of new thing is bound to be incomplete and lacking.

I would say WP7 if you look at the timeline is actually better than Android/iOS in terms of progress. Mango being the second revision is already better than iOS or Android at that stage.

At this moment, they are not a challenger but wait for W8 which will be out soon and Nokia is still at the early stage of converting to WP. Don't rule them out so fast.

Microsoft has a long history of failures in the mobile market, WP7 is far from their first entry. Look up Windows Mobile, etc.

I think WP8 will be the OS that gets it right for them.

[Kurtz7834]

that I agree but my hunch is that only a small percentage of people(like us) who care about wifi hotspot.

I'm sure Joe Average would care if he actually knew what it was, what it does, and how it could benefit him.

[disolitude]

I'm sure Joe Average would care if he actually knew what it was, what it does, and how it could benefit him.

With these 500MB and 1GB data caps...I'm surprised anyone cares about Wifi hotspots using their phones. Wind customers maybe...

[Kurtz7834]

With these 500MB and 1GB data caps...I'm surprised anyone cares about Wifi hotspots using their phones. Wind customers maybe...

Sure. And there's nothing wrong with WP7, I didn't find it unpleasant. It was just missing some technical features I need, and also some of the apps need to be tweaked, they don't use screen space efficiently. For example, in IE I couldn't figure out how to hide the toolbar, I don't think you can. Opera for example will intelligently hide the toolbar to maximize your useable space on your tiny phone screen, and last I checked Opera wasn't available for WP7. Has this changed?

I prefer Android due to rooting, autoproxy and a host of technical reasons. In terms of UI and useability I think Android and WP7 are equal.

[chimp]

Microsoft has a long history of failures in the mobile market, WP7 is far from their first entry. Look up Windows Mobile, etc.

I have to disagree. Before iPhone, WM actually dominated the smart phone market of its time. Even BB was a late comer and iPhone changed all that.

[champdood]

I guess the Lumia 800 will be $599? Whenever soon is

The 710 and 800 were both released at the same time in Europe (the 800 was the first announced too), so I'm guessing February, like the 710, unless Rogers struck some deal to take the crappier phone but to get it on the market first.

$599 seems too high, I'd expect that price for the 900 (whenever it's released, but it's $99 on AT&T on a 2 year contract). Assuming the reports of $250 being correct for the 710 (which I kind of doubt, there has been no confirmation from Rogers. This thing costs 270 euros, which is closer to $350) the 800 is only 420 euro, $550. It might be as low as $400 or $450 if the 710 price is correct.

The phones aren't that different either, the 800 has a better camera, better build, better screen (but the same size), better battery. Same processor/gpu/communications stuff. There couldn't be more than an extra $100 worth ofh hardware in there, which normally results in $200 added to the price. The 900 on the other hand has a bigger screen, second camera, bigger battery and NFC.

[arsamore]

Those looking for advice on the OS. I have used all three -- well 4 prominent smartphone operating systems (iOS, Android, Windows Phone and WebOS). Of the 4 Windows Phone feels most like 'the future'. It is simple in the same way that iOS is simple, yet generally more flexible than iOS. The problem -- and it is a big one -- is the lack of applications. This is compounded by inane OS updates that in some instances provide features to phones on some carriers and not others (e.g., the LG quantum 7 does not have wifi hotspot on Bell, while the Australian firmware does). If you are not interested in tweaking your phone, you want a smooth smartphone experience and you do not want an iPhone then Windows Phones are great. The Lumia 710 at $250 is a great price too. Although I suspect you will be able to get better Windows Phones from the previous generation (e.g., Samsung Focus) for $250 or less in the near future anyways.

[chimp]

With these 500MB and 1GB data caps...I'm surprised anyone cares about Wifi hotspots using their phones. Wind customers maybe...

I insist on wifi hotspot not because I want it to be a broadband replacement but as a fill in for occasional use. Things like when I am on short vacation(2-4 weeks) to Victoria island or US or overseas. Or when I am on a driving tour around canada.

There are lots of reasonably priced data plan for this kind of usage. Bell's iPad plan for example is 35 for 5GB which is more than enough for this kind of thing, I am not going to stream 1080p porn 24/7 :-). And even I do, there is the SO UMB.

[chimp]

It is simple in the same way that iOS is simple, yet generally more flexible than iOS.

Just like OS X vs W7 vs vs Linux :-)

Our late Job's 'my way or no way' to Bill's 'we have all your need but you would need to spend a bit of time to adopt' to the Linux world where you have zillion's of X window desktop to choose from but all have rough edges here and there.

[Kurtz7834]

It hasn't been officially announced, but I'm expecting that Windows Phone 8 will launch aside Windows 8 and I expect that will be in Q4 2012.

Will any of these current Mango phones get updates to WP8? It's unknown but my guess is 'No.'

Microsoft likes to keep the carriers happy and the carriers like to force people to buy new phones.

[disolitude]

Sure. And there's nothing wrong with WP7, I didn't find it unpleasant. It was just missing some technical features I need, and also some of the apps need to be tweaked, they don't use screen space efficiently. For example, in IE I couldn't figure out how to hide the toolbar, I don't think you can. Opera for example will intelligently hide the toolbar to maximize your useable space on your tiny phone screen, and last I 'checked Opera wasn't available for WP7. Has this changed?

I prefer Android due to rooting, autoproxy and a host of technical reasons. In terms of UI and useability I think Android and WP7 are equal.

Opera isn't available and I doubt it will be available in the near future...microsoft isn't allowing other browser engines to be used n windows phone yet.

Microsoft learned a valuable lesson with Windows Mobile. They had the most marketshare in 2006 and 2007 but they didn't own the experience. It was an open OS and everyone was skinning it, tweaking it, loading their os with bloatware, putting it on phones with sub par specs... Things go wrong, people blame microsoft, not HTC or Samsung who skin the crap out of the phone and tried adding features which weren't supposed to work.

Microsoft also realized that they can not maximize revenue out of Windows Mobile as that ecosystem was too broken and fragmented to compete with iphone. Hence they had to essentially restart from scratch with Windows Phone 7. Android will be in this position in a few years form now... I mean, look at Amazon Kindle Fire. Best selling android tablet and not a single google product or service is on it. It has Bing search, Amazon marketplace. Google will seriously have to reconsider their strategy if more manufacturers start doing this and cutting them out of the revenue loop.