Safe to vaccinate infants?

[Xax]

Inspired by another topic, I'm interested in information and discussion regarding the safety of vaccinating infants. I've heard both arguments; that they're not safe, and that today's vaccines are safe, but I'm hoping for some informed, qualified input. Are certain infant vaccines more important or safe/dangerous than others?

[CSK'sMom]

Xax, who are you going to use as a ped. for the twins? Dr Jackiewicz is great, in our experience with her. That is your best source of information IMHO. Now I will say that as ill as our middle son was as an infant (spent more time in hospital than at home his 1st year) we still did his full vaccinations. With the guidanceof Sick Kids and several doctors here in Niagara we felt the risk was too high for complications if he wasn't vaccinated...

Just thought I'd remind you of the kids clothes and equipment sale coming up at the Op. Center across from Zehrs on April 14th, 9-12.

[Xax]

Xax, who are you going to use as a ped. for the twins? Dr Jackiewicz is great, in our experience with her. That is your best source of information IMHO.

We don't yet know who we will be going with for a pediatrician. What made you go with Dr. Jackiewicz?

Just thought I'd remind you of the kids clothes and equipment sale coming up at the Op. Center across from Zehrs on April 14th, 9-12.

Thanks very much! We'll definitely be checking it out.

[shoppingmama]

My opinion...NO! This is not a decision we took lightly, after years of research, we decided not to vaccinate our children. After my nephew died from a vaccine reaction we started to research while we were pregnant with our first child over 11 years ago. My mom is in the medical field, as well as my mother in law but with their blessing are kids are vaccine free. It's been awhile since our decision was made but I have no regrets. We looked at every disease, every vaccine product insert, every medical journal article, etc... In the end there was not one vaccine we felt was worth the risk. It's not an easy decision but one we are glad we made before our kids received any.

[tkl]

We did all the recommended stuff up to his current age of 14 months.

[CSK'sMom]

It's a funny story how we ended up with Dr Jackiewicz Xax. Sick Kids originally recommended Dr Williams (ended up as regional health dr) to us as local care for our middle son. When she gave up private practice she recommended Dr Jackiewicz. It ended up that she had cared for our son during one of his hospital stays in St Catharines General. During that stay he was tested for CF and she was terrific with us. She told us exactly why he needed to be tested, reassured us and did lots of hand-holding which we absolutely needed at the time. She made sure we had every bit of information we needed to make decisions and was prompt at making referrals to other specialists when needed.

She also has added speciality of ADD/HD, learning disabilities, etc. Our other 2 kids see her for their ADHD, she's been great with them.

[getmail99]

My opinion...NO! This is not a decision we took lightly, after years of research, we decided not to vaccinate our children. After my nephew died from a vaccine reaction we started to research while we were pregnant with our first child over 11 years ago. My mom is in the medical field, as well as my mother in law but with their blessing are kids are vaccine free. It's been awhile since our decision was made but I have no regrets. We looked at every disease, every vaccine product insert, every medical journal article, etc... In the end there was not one vaccine we felt was worth the risk. It's not an easy decision but one we are glad we made before our kids received any.

Thanks, this is great info Very useful. This is very encouraging for the parents who don't want to vaccine their babies. Doctors always bully you into vaccine. Even walk in clinics doctors give you a hard look when you tell them the baby is not up to schedule.

"Benefit outweigh risks", they never tell you the risk is death, just some fever and rash..

[Bullseye]

My understanding is that if you don't get the required vaccinations, your child will not be allowed into the public school system. They require proof of it, I'm told (maybe Ontario only?).

Shoppingmama, what is your experience with this? Did you home school?

We weren't entirely comfortable with vaccines, either, but did them because of the school issue, and for the 'greater good'. Forgoing them is essentially a selfish decision, your child will still likely be safe from these horrible diseases, but only because every OTHER kid is getting vaccinated for them. If everyone stopped getting them, there would very likely be a resurgence of these old diseases that have been contained for decades. Vaccines are heavily tested, and are quite safe. There is a risk in everything we do, the risk with vaccines is there, but miniscule.

[krobin]

non-vacc inated kids are allowed in Ontario schools there is another form you must fill out when your child starts JK. I vaccinated my children but that is what my daughter's vaccination form said

[Bullseye]

'Is immunization required for attendance at school or day care in Ontario ?
For children attending school in Ontario, a written immunization record or proof of immunization is required, by law, for diphtheria, tetanus, polio, measles, mumps and rubella unless there is a valid written exemption. Parents/guardians are required to provide this information to their local public health unit, and to update the information as necessary. There are specific vaccines required for children attending licensed daycare centres. You should contact your local public health unit or check with your daycare centre, for the specific immunization requirements.

You may decide because of medical, religious or philosophical reasons not to immunize your child. In this case, you will need to provide a valid written exemption to your local public health unit. If the disease appears in your child's school or daycare, your child may have to stay out of school/daycare until the disease is no longer present.'

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/...unization.html

I guess the key word here is 'valid'. Seems like it wouldn't be too hard to qualify though, seeing as 'philosophical' reasons is listed.

[mart242]

We weren't entirely comfortable with vaccines, either, but did them because of the school issue, and for the 'greater good'. Forgoing them is essentially a selfish decision, your child will still likely be safe from these horrible diseases, but only because every OTHER kid is getting vaccinated for them. If everyone stopped getting them, there would very likely be a resurgence of these old diseases that have been contained for decades. Vaccines are heavily tested, and are quite safe. There is a risk in everything we do, the risk with vaccines is there, but miniscule.

I did the same as bullseye.

[Xax]

I've been researching this issue more, from both sides of the fence. While keeping in mind their obvious bias against vaccination, and that it doesn't make sense to consider only one side's arguments, the Canadian-based Vaccine Risk Awareness Network may be of some interest to some (vran.org).

My understanding is that if you don't get the required vaccinations, your child will not be allowed into the public school system. They require proof of it, I'm told (maybe Ontario only?).

You can choose to not vaccinate for just about any reason you like, and your children would still be able to attend public schools.

We weren't entirely comfortable with vaccines, either, but did them because of the school issue, and for the 'greater good'. Forgoing them is essentially a selfish decision, your child will still likely be safe from these horrible diseases, but only because every OTHER kid is getting vaccinated for them. If everyone stopped getting them, there would very likely be a resurgence of these old diseases that have been contained for decades.

I suppose you could say that refraining from putting potentially dangerous substances into my children's bodies for the sake of the so-called "greater good" is selfish, but I'm not sure I see it quite that way. One could argue that doing so would be unethical.

Vaccines are heavily tested, and are quite safe. There is a risk in everything we do, the risk with vaccines is there, but miniscule.

That could very well be the case, but what is your reason for believing so?

[Bullseye]

I suppose you could say that refraining from putting potentially dangerous substances into my children's bodies for the sake of the so-called "greater good" is selfish, but I'm not sure I see it quite that way. One could argue that doing so would be unethical.

Not sure how it could be seen as anything but selfish, really. If your argument is ethical, then your efforts should be aimed at scrapping vaccinations for ALL kids. Ethics are not selective, you can't apply one set to your kids and one to everyone else's. You would then have to be aware of the ethics of opening our population to the scourge of old diseases that would likely cause many times more deaths than vaccinations now cause. That would be a tough one to reconcile.

The basis for my assessment of vaccine risk? Statistics, the death rate is very low for vaccines, especially when compared to the death rates for the diseases they prevent.

The VRAN is an activist group, not very reliable as a fair and balanced source of info. They have an obvious bias, and they have also been discredited by the medical community, who actually use peer-reviewed studies as their basis, unlike the VRAN. Here's an article you may find interesting about them;

http://www.scq.ubc.ca/?p=634

The problem is that most of us are blinded by emotion on this, we want to protect our kids, and those not doing getting vaccines are just acting in what they feel is in the best interests of those kids. The best interests of society pale in comparison, to most people. Which is why these things need to be legislated, people are inherently self-interested, they will rarely act for the greater good if the cost to their own interests is deemed too high. For example, everyone will recycle, but ask them to swallow a 20% gas tax increase that would pay for environmental programs? Not a chance.

[Bullseye]

Another link giving a bit of the 'other sides' story;

http://quackfiles.blogspot.com/2005/...eeds-pill.html

A link to a related CBC story;

http://www.healthwatcher.net/chirowa...ranscript.html

[CSK'sMom]

Discussions around vaccinations, flu shots, etc. usually end up the same way. IMO,those who choose not to rely on those who choose to do it for their protection. Many seem to be under the impression the diseases we vaccinate for are minor nuisances. They were not and still are not. It all comes down to what one perceives as "acceptable risk". Personally, for us, we decided with superb medical advice, that the risk of complications if a disease was contracted was far too high and the small risk of vaccination was minimal in comparison...

Now when dealing with babies that are preemie, low birth weight or have other complications or medical conditions I honestly believe it's a topic that one needs really good medical advice to get an accurate picture to filter out the radicals...