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Scarborough Subway...

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  • May 11th, 2017 8:44 pm
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Apr 8, 2013
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LNahid2000 wrote:
Mar 11th, 2017 10:48 pm
BRT and LRT can actually be even faster than a subway, at a much lower cost. If you've actually used public transit in other parts of the world, you'd know that subways aren't the only solution. People in Toronto think of subways as the only solution because they've never seen how real BRT and LRT runs.
BRT and LRT cant be faster than the subways. BRT are just busses. A BRT is not an efficient way to move massive amount of people in the future. LRT is ok but if you are going to build a transit system that could cover the future. You might as well go with subways. We can see the effects of not having subways in scarborough and etobicoke. Imagine 20-30 years from now.

You have to remember, Toronto will NOT be the same decades from now. It will be HEAVILY populated. GTA will be populated as well.
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kevindurant1 wrote:
Mar 11th, 2017 11:23 pm
BRT and LRT cant be faster than the subways. BRT are just busses. A BRT is not an efficient way to move massive amount of people in the future. LRT is ok but if you are going to build a transit system that could cover the future. You might as well go with subways. We can see the effects of not having subways in scarborough and etobicoke. Imagine 20-30 years from now.

You have to remember, Toronto will NOT be the same decades from now. It will be HEAVILY populated. GTA will be populated as well.
Ottawa and Mississauga's BRT has a faster average speed than Toronto's subway. Some BRT lines around the world carry over 1 million people per day. Don't tell me BRT is just buses. Here's an example for you. Guangzhou's BRT carries more people per day than the Yonge line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou ... id_Transit

Some parts of Toronto will never have enough ridership to support a subway. It's not like we're going to demolish all the single family homes in Scarborough to build huge skyscrapers. Places with mainly single family homes should have BRT or LRT since it can be just as fast as a subway at a fraction of the cost.
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LNahid2000 wrote:
Mar 11th, 2017 11:30 pm
Ottawa and Mississauga's BRT has a faster average speed than Toronto's subway. Some BRT lines around the world carry over 1 million people per day. Don't tell me BRT is just buses. Here's an example for you. Guangzhou's BRT carries more people per day than the Yonge line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou ... id_Transit

Some parts of Toronto will never have enough ridership to support a subway. It's not like we're going to demolish all the single family homes in Scarborough to build huge skyscrapers. Places with mainly single family homes should have BRT or LRT since it can be just as fast as a subway at a fraction of the cost.
How can it be faster than our subway?. That is not technologically possible.

Its top speed is 13mph. Our train average at 20 mph and the great thing about our subway is that we can always go faster. The track is already there.
Guangzhou's BRT carries more people per day than the Yonge line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangzhou ... id_Transit
Its a bus. Its job is to transport a massive amount of people. It is not meant for speed and efficiency. Did you actually check out the pictures on your own link?. Look at it during rush hour.

And you are comparing ridership to our yonge line. Compare it to our whole subway system. We have more ridership. The more subway stations, the more ridership.

Im not even going to keep arguing the difference between subway vs bus. Its silly. Subway is the answer, more bus is just a bandaid. Shoot, just get rid of the subway system and switch to busses then. Thats backwards. Face With Tears Of Joy
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I never said the Guangzhou BRT was faster than our subway, but Ottawa and Mississauga's BRTs are faster. Go ride Missisauga's and you'll see.

No one said to get rid of existing subways and switch to buses. Some areas have the ridership for subways, while other areas have the ridership for BRT/LRT. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
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LNahid2000 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 9:46 am
I never said the Guangzhou BRT was faster than our subway, but Ottawa and Mississauga's BRTs are faster. Go ride Missisauga's and you'll see.

No one said to get rid of existing subways and switch to buses. Some areas have the ridership for subways, while other areas have the ridership for BRT/LRT. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
Your point don't even make sense. Mississauga has more land, suffers a lot more urban spawrl than scarborough. If you noticed, Missisauga's roads are far bigger, 6 lanes on most major arteries. The BRT mostly runs off the 403, which has a max speed limit of 100km/h. Of course the average speed will be faster than a subway.

If you want to compare, compare it with Viva in York Region. Their average speed is about 25km/h, which doesn't factor in elements, traffic or accidents at intersections. It also has larger stop spacing compared to the TTC subway. Average Toronto Subway runs @ about 28-30km, but carries almost 18x the amount of standard BRT with alot more stop in between.
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LNahid2000 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 9:46 am
I never said the Guangzhou BRT was faster than our subway, but Ottawa and Mississauga's BRTs are faster. Go ride Missisauga's and you'll see.

No one said to get rid of existing subways and switch to buses. Some areas have the ridership for subways, while other areas have the ridership for BRT/LRT. I don't know why that's so hard to understand.
Have you ever been to Scarborough?, Etobicoke?. Its not missausauga or ottawa. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy You cant possibly believe that spamming the road with hundreds of buses would be faster than a subway. How long have you lived here?. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy

You keep talking about lack of ridership. You think yonge/bloor line was busy when they started using it?. OF COURSE NOT.
No one said to get rid of existing subways and switch to buses.
This is what you are saying. BRT is faster than subways and there is more ridership. Why keep the subway when BRT is the key to the future?. Lets take our subways out and replace it with busses.

AGAIN. Toronto will not be the same 20 years from now. Busses is good for what it does but subway is VITAL for the future of Toronto. Scarborough and Etobicoke needs it. Any spots within the city where a subway is just not possible THATS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LRT'S AND BRT'S.
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Yes. But how long has the subway line to nowhere been? And ridership is still WAY WAY below what would justify the same. People are not going to magically crawl out of their holes and use the subway. Give your head a shake. Then again, it's the property tax increases that will pay for it. And that's not my concern.
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aznnorth wrote:
Sep 7th, 2013 8:28 am
I can see why London and NYC have massive transit systems. Their populations and geographic areas are 3x plus that of Toronto. Therefore more revenue, more funds to fund transit systems. However, Paris is only 2.3 mil peeps almost half that of GTA. WTF is going on here?? Answer: Higher salaries. Parisians average 7800 euro's a month or $10.3k usd = $123,600 usd/annum. Average Toronto/GTA citizens do not get that in the least. Last stats, Toronto peeps were averaging $47k/annum. Less taxes, less funding, less govt help. In other words, Paris has way more richer peeps than GTA. Money talks, bs walks... as usual. Point blank.
how does the french command such high salary? is it true for UK and Germany as well?
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kevindurant1 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 6:26 pm
Have you ever been to Scarborough?, Etobicoke?. Its not missausauga or ottawa. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy You cant possibly believe that spamming the road with hundreds of buses would be faster than a subway. How long have you lived here?. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy

You keep talking about lack of ridership. You think yonge/bloor line was busy when they started using it?. OF COURSE NOT.



This is what you are saying. BRT is faster than subways and there is more ridership. Why keep the subway when BRT is the key to the future?. Lets take our subways out and replace it with busses.

AGAIN. Toronto will not be the same 20 years from now. Busses is good for what it does but subway is VITAL for the future of Toronto. Scarborough and Etobicoke needs it. Any spots within the city where a subway is just not possible THATS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LRT'S AND BRT'S.
I never said BRT would run on the street. It would run on it's own dedicated right of way like in Mississauga.

Why are only subways vital for the future of Toronto? What about regional express rail, which is also cheaper and faster?
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No. While the city of Paris only has 2.2 million people, the urban area has at least 10 million people, roughly the same size as London. It's just that the city boundary has not changed for at least a century despite rapidly growing outward.
And I'm not sure where that salary statistics come from. Also note that Paris has gentrified so much that nowadays, you'll need to be rich to live there. So the income statistics is skewed and does not reflect the wider urban population.
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mkjr wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 6:45 pm
Yes. But how long has the subway line to nowhere been? And ridership is still WAY WAY below what would justify the same. People are not going to magically crawl out of their holes and use the subway. Give your head a shake. Then again, it's the property tax increases that will pay for it. And that's not my concern.
What do you mean?. People using the subway right now are pretty much the same people who would be using the bus if it didnt exist. TTC ridership goes up, it doesnt go down. 20 years from now, it will be more clogged.
And ridership is still WAY WAY below what would justify the same.
I already addressed it in my earlier post. Just read it.
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Yes. And the bus is way cheaper and does not cost 1.4 million per person that plans to use it. There is NO argument that can justify subway.

People supporting this sound like rob ford for crying out loud.

Ever see the monorail Simpson's episode.
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kevindurant1 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 7:46 pm
What do you mean?. People using the subway right now are pretty much the same people who would be using the bus if it didnt exist. TTC ridership goes up, it doesnt go down. 20 years from now, it will be more clogged.



I already addressed it in my earlier post. Just read it.
Yes. You addressed it with no facts. Don't you think that when the city spends 3B they should have data to support them versus some person on the Internet who says, well, in 20 years they 'might' use it????

Oh dear. Heaven help us. And when it reaches 6B it will be even worse than the Sheppard line.
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mkjr wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 8:36 pm
Yes. You addressed it with no facts. Don't you think that when the city spends 3B they should have data to support them versus some person on the Internet who says, well, in 20 years they 'might' use it????

Oh dear. Heaven help us. And when it reaches 6B it will be even worse than the Sheppard line.
Scarborough already NEED better transit. They already have busses all over the place.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/0 ... tinue.html

Sheppard's issue is not because they built a station, its because of the contractor.

I dont know why you would even mention Ford. The guy is not our mayor anymore and he already passed away.

If we listen to people like you we wouldnt have downsview station and wilson station would be a packed flea market. Downsview station used to be ghost town in its first year. Look at it now. Its vital for people that live around that area. It eased congestion in the terminals.

It might be pricy now but it will pay off in the long run. Just like 401 was pricey, just like the subway lines were pricey.
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mkjr wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 8:34 pm
Yes. And the bus is way cheaper and does not cost 1.4 million per person that plans to use it. There is NO argument that can justify subway.
So lets tear down all the subway lines and close all the stations. Just run a bunch of bus since its cheaper.

Yup, lets just keep going backwards while the population and ridership grows. :facepalm:
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