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Schools/Programs for Geomatics/GIS/Surveying/Urban Planning?

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  • Dec 29th, 2012 1:58 pm
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Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York

Schools/Programs for Geomatics/GIS/Surveying/Urban Planning?

I started researching schools that have programs related to geomatics/GIS/surveying/urban planning and have found that it's mostly BSc in environmental science/environmental studies, or BEs that offer such programs, or your everyday BA in geography. I'm only looking at programs with a co-op/internship option and have stopped at a few: https://www.box.net/shared/ht13xb5yee2ac2om7eah Is anyone in these fields that can help me out and suggest the better of these (or other) programs? I've only recently started looking into them and don't know much.

Thank you.
26 replies
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
Appreciate the insight. I was actually looking to get away from Ryerson. Been reading on other forums and looking online, apparently Guelph is known for their enviro-science programs? Can anyone back this up?
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
That's what I wanted to start pursuing after a few months of deliberation. The geomatics field including surveying, GIS, and urban planning. As for Guelph, that's what I've heard too but am looking for a little evidence. It would be easier if I chose Guelph as I'm already accepted into their business program but didn't go this year. I believe my name is still in the system though.
Newbie
Aug 24, 2012
15 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
Hey Dankup. I went to the UofC 10 years ago to the geomatics program but am looking to change engineering fields as it's very niche. U of C is world-renowned for the more technology side of the things in geomatics. For example: programming. I did more programming in my labs in Geo than the Software kids did - which helped me get my first job as a software engineer in the States. Very few career jobs for geos in Canada. On the other hand - You get almost no practical land surveying experience at the UofC but do get your board exams done (which are a pain in the a** to do alone). Job market is very strong for ALS (Alberta Land Surveyors) but the work is boring as sh*t. Pays well but repetitive and not challenging I.M.O. There is only lip service to GIS/Urban planning in Geomatics as they are not really an engineering discipline. So yeah UofC Geomatics = two career choices:
a) Tech route (Software/Hardware/Systems Development = Minimal jobs in Canada) or
b) Land Surveying Route (2-3 years of field work and then more exams to progress to a mundane job that pays ok to very well. In the end you manage field monkeys a.k.a. button mashers = Not much fun after 5-10 years but pays the bills).

If you want to see the career options for a geomatics engineer. Search Monster.ca or .com. I get <10 jobs in North America with that title. Not to say it's the be and end all but it's telling for sure.

Good luck! Let me know if you have any more questions.

Good luck!
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
Thanks! I was looking the most forward to GIS, but looking to stay in Ontario. How in demand are GIS jobs in Alberta?
Member
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Nov 11, 2009
498 posts
7 upvotes
hellium wrote: I know most about the Ryerson's urban planning&geomatics program. Ryerson's planning has placements(http://www.ryerson.ca/surp/current/unde ... ments.html) You can find more info on it here. http://www.ryerson.ca/surp/index.html Ryerson also has geomatics option which isn't really a degree in geomatics but it lets you apply for a Ontario Land Surveyor license. More info on that here:http://www.ryerson.ca/civil/undergrad/geomatics/
Ryerson does have placements for both 3rd and 4th year students. They can get REALLY competitive though in the winter semester as everyone would like to get into it. I applied and am still waiting to see if I can get in. You need a resume and cover letter essentially. It's mainly based on GPA. For what you wanted to do, there are opportunities (only for environmental, such as the Green Belt Foundation/Group; haven't really seen transportation placements much.)

York has a faculty for environmental studies, but I think that might be a BA which isn't what you're looking for I don't think. I think if you are willing to work for it, Waterloo or Guelph is where you want to go since they have co-op for their programs. That is where I would probably go for if I were in your shoes.
Ryerson Urban and Regional Planning Graduate/Working Professional 2014 - PM me if you have questions about the program/career and I'll try my best to help you out :)
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Aug 9, 2011
2052 posts
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GTA
duffman2003 wrote: Ryerson does have placements for both 3rd and 4th year students. They can get REALLY competitive though in the winter semester as everyone would like to get into it. I applied and am still waiting to see if I can get in. You need a resume and cover letter essentially. It's mainly based on GPA. For what you wanted to do, there are opportunities (only for environmental, such as the Green Belt Foundation/Group; haven't really seen transportation placements much.)

York has a faculty for environmental studies, but I think that might be a BA which isn't what you're looking for I don't think. I think if you are willing to work for it, Waterloo or Guelph is where you want to go since they have co-op for their programs. That is where I would probably go for if I were in your shoes.
In other words, the ryerson placements are extremely limited and your chances of landing a position is low.

Go with Guelph or Waterloo as they actually have a "co op" program if experience is what you really want.
Newbie
Aug 24, 2012
15 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
GIS jobs in AB? Hmmmm, not entirely sure. GIS can be competitive because it is inside sitting in front of a warm computer. Check Monster/Indeed for a litmus test. Most positions are tech/analyst gigs. Maybe $20-$25/hr starting. You really only need a 2yr diploma to do GIS. It's not hard unless you get into back-end stuff like DB programming or custom apps. I had some students up to speed doing basic analysis in one 30hr course. I'd personally shy away from a 4yr degree in GIS unless you want to specialize. If you're AB bound - go oil/gas. Positions typically pay 10%-30% higher. These are even more competitive though.

Oh - and applying from Ontario. You will be at a disadvantage for the better jobs in AB/SK. Relocation is an expensive capital hit for entry level postings. I've always looked local first, outside the province as a last resort. You may have a better chance with a co-op placement to get in first, wow them and then they move you after graduation, maybe even a small signing bonus. Co-op programs are totally the way to go.

Hope that helps...
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Nov 11, 2009
498 posts
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imflying12 wrote: In other words, the ryerson placements are extremely limited and your chances of landing a position is low.

Go with Guelph or Waterloo as they actually have a "co op" program if experience is what you really want.
No that's not the case at all. It really depends on when you apply for the placement course. Besides, client studios will drain all your energy anyways. Of course if you can afford living out then be sure to go to Waterloo or Guelph, but I wouldn't rule out a school just cause they don't guarantee co-op.....
Ryerson Urban and Regional Planning Graduate/Working Professional 2014 - PM me if you have questions about the program/career and I'll try my best to help you out :)
Member
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Nov 11, 2009
498 posts
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Anyways Dankup, If you're really into this, I suggest you check out urbantoronto.com for what you want to do. It has more to do with what you want to do. A lot of people on here are in business and it's a totally different program so it's a totally different world. Just realize that environmental science and urban planning degrees, it doesn't really matter where you go as they you basically learn off each other.
Ryerson Urban and Regional Planning Graduate/Working Professional 2014 - PM me if you have questions about the program/career and I'll try my best to help you out :)
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
engamaneer wrote: GIS jobs in AB? Hmmmm, not entirely sure. GIS can be competitive because it is inside sitting in front of a warm computer. Check Monster/Indeed for a litmus test. Most positions are tech/analyst gigs. Maybe $20-$25/hr starting. You really only need a 2yr diploma to do GIS. It's not hard unless you get into back-end stuff like DB programming or custom apps. I had some students up to speed doing basic analysis in one 30hr course. I'd personally shy away from a 4yr degree in GIS unless you want to specialize. If you're AB bound - go oil/gas. Positions typically pay 10%-30% higher. These are even more competitive though.

Oh - and applying from Ontario. You will be at a disadvantage for the better jobs in AB/SK. Relocation is an expensive capital hit for entry level postings. I've always looked local first, outside the province as a last resort. You may have a better chance with a co-op placement to get in first, wow them and then they move you after graduation, maybe even a small signing bonus. Co-op programs are totally the way to go.

Hope that helps...
Appreciate the insight. You mention programming - how much programming is in GIS? This might start to stray me away as I've taken a few programming classes in the past and really hated myself for doing so.
duffman2003 wrote: Ryerson does have placements for both 3rd and 4th year students. They can get REALLY competitive though in the winter semester as everyone would like to get into it. I applied and am still waiting to see if I can get in. You need a resume and cover letter essentially. It's mainly based on GPA. For what you wanted to do, there are opportunities (only for environmental, such as the Green Belt Foundation/Group; haven't really seen transportation placements much.)

York has a faculty for environmental studies, but I think that might be a BA which isn't what you're looking for I don't think. I think if you are willing to work for it, Waterloo or Guelph is where you want to go since they have co-op for their programs. That is where I would probably go for if I were in your shoes.
imflying12 wrote: In other words, the ryerson placements are extremely limited and your chances of landing a position is low.

Go with Guelph or Waterloo as they actually have a "co op" program if experience is what you really want.
That is the plan so far.
duffman2003 wrote: Anyways Dankup, If you're really into this, I suggest you check out urbantoronto.com for what you want to do. It has more to do with what you want to do. A lot of people on here are in business and it's a totally different program so it's a totally different world. Just realize that environmental science and urban planning degrees, it doesn't really matter where you go as they you basically learn off each other.
Will check it out, thanks!

Also, figured I'm gonna be taking one GIS/mapping course, one food science course, and one finance course next semester. I want to see where my strength is as these topics interest me so I can choose a field for September.
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Nov 11, 2009
498 posts
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[quote="dankup" post_id="16006979" time="1356024823" user_id="315888"]Appreciate the insight. You mention programming - how much programming is in GIS? This might start to stray me away as I've taken a few programming classes in the past and really hated myself for doing so.


From my experience with GIS, there is certain parts where program is needed to tweak and make the map that you make work. I don't think it's essential to the GIS process, but knowing some codes will help you in the long run cause it does make mapping a little easier especially if the default program can't get to where you need to go. But then again, I'm not a true GIS tech so that's just my two cents.
Ryerson Urban and Regional Planning Graduate/Working Professional 2014 - PM me if you have questions about the program/career and I'll try my best to help you out :)
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
duffman2003 wrote: Thanks. It was a little strange hearing it as I've looked at the courses students take, didn't see any programming for GIS.
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Nov 11, 2009
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it's nothing like computer science or anything specific such as java or C++ or anything. It's more like lines of code to make the program work a little better that's about it.
Ryerson Urban and Regional Planning Graduate/Working Professional 2014 - PM me if you have questions about the program/career and I'll try my best to help you out :)
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
duffman2003 wrote: it's nothing like computer science or anything specific such as java or C++ or anything. It's more like lines of code to make the program work a little better that's about it.
Right, I understand. A little tweak in the background to make something specific that you need.
Newbie
Aug 24, 2012
15 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
Yeah - they don't teach you everything at school :) Trust me. I wrote commercial geomatics software for a living - to get anywhere in GIS as a career you really need *some* programming skills. My uni courses in GIS had programming as part of the labs and it was not taught in class. As an operator you may just be using SQL or similar query languages for accessing and managing databases. As a GIS specialist you would be required to create custom applications (windows programming) or do hardcore backend manip (think database programming - yuck!). And that essentially is what GIS...is - large spatially correlated databases strung together with sets or rules (search and access queries) and accessed by a spatial GUI. So if you don't know how to manipulate it with code - you are only going to be adding value to your employer as an analyst or operator using pre-existing tools, a job that is fairly easy to teach someone already in the field. So competition is higher for jobs as the barriers to entry are fewer and any computer operator job now is becoming increasingly easier to outsource to Asia. Like engineering companies are doing with low-end CAD jobs. So long term job security may be a bit weaker.

Which leads me to this point: GIS is used in an extremely wide range of industries/fields (I'm sure you realized this!). From healthcare (think disease tracking/management) to defense/military to urban planning. If I were interested in GIS - I would view it as a tool I'd want to use instead of a sole focus - unless you love the software/DB side of the things.

It'll be interesting to see how you like your food/science and finance courses as both have some positions that could use GIS in gathering and analyzing data. Also - GIS has tons of uses in marketing/sales.

Although I've used GIS in a variety of capacities over the past 12-13 years, I only use it now for the occasional quick check. So try the Esri or MapInfo user forums as well. Ask someone who is actually using ArcGIS or Mapinfo on a daily basis to see what they do, level of programming/search queries, job security, etc..

Good luck!
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
Great info, thank you!

I think this semester will clear things out for me, by taking a course in each of the possible fields I'll later on go on to explore even deeper. It really sucks when one day I want to be a GIS analyst, the next a financial analyst, and have an interest in nutrition also. Can't choose anything, and time is ticking.
Newbie
Aug 24, 2012
15 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto
Don't fret the "university choose my life now thing". The choices you are making are important, of course, but it's just one type of a starting point. I went through engineering with people in their late 30's...just starting...and they started someplace else. I would just focus on what you like to do - that's all part of the uni experience in narrowing that down. So enjoy yourself, make sure you spend some time in the pub, and genuinely be excited about your freedom of choice. We are lucky to have it.

Good luck!
Deal Fanatic
Jul 8, 2010
7578 posts
576 upvotes
York
engamaneer wrote: Don't fret the "university choose my life now thing". The choices you are making are important, of course, but it's just one type of a starting point. I went through engineering with people in their late 30's...just starting...and they started someplace else. I would just focus on what you like to do - that's all part of the uni experience in narrowing that down. So enjoy yourself, make sure you spend some time in the pub, and genuinely be excited about your freedom of choice. We are lucky to have it.

Good luck!
Heh, people like you make it sound nice :) Main reason I'm having such difficulty is I'm afraid to be behind in my 20s or 30s. Say I graduate with an environmental degree and do GIS until I'm 30, then bam, I have thoughts of becoming a financial analyst. Who's going to take a 30 year old with 0 experience and knowledge in accounting/finance. Unless I have very close friends working in that field who can give me a shot.. it's not gonna happen.
Newbie
May 3, 2012
83 posts
6 upvotes
All I know is that Waterloo is the school you want to go to for urban planning. Not sure about geomatics, but its an engineering degree right? While surveying/GIS is more of a diploma program? Seems like Waterloo is a safe bet.

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