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SEAGATE 4tb External 129 & 132 Amazon // Dell Under 40 cents. Cheapest Hdd on the market

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  • Jul 17th, 2017 7:09 pm
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Sep 21, 2005
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flopticalcube wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 9:33 pm
Think of it this way. I would rather have a short warranty on a drive with a proven track record of high reliability than a long one on a drive without. Of far more importance than the drive, to me, is the data on it (or the hassle of reloading from backups).
ID01 wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 10:27 pm
That is the part we disagree with I guess. All drives are going to fail. Preparation should be done before they fail anyway. Most of the hassle should have been out of the way. Reloading from backups should be relatively simple. So I rather buy something that are new over something that isn't likely to fail immediately but has no warranty after that.
It boiled down to what you are comfortable with and can sleep well at night with your decision. Both of you have valid points.

Last weekend, I redeemed 50k SDM points to get a 3TB Seagate drive for $15+GST. I took the drive out of its enclosure and added to my NAS box with a 3TB WD drive as RAID 1. When one of these 2 drive fails, my data is still intact and give me a chance to swap out the bad drive with a good one.

Now, I know the HGST Ultrastar 3TB drive at eBay. I will wait for eBay/PayPal "$15 off for spending $75" promo to buy one as a replacement drive when one of my RAID drive fails. The replacement drive may be sitting in storage 1 or 2 years and I have no way to predict what will happen. Therefore, warranty will not matter much in my situation. I like to buy things that I need when it is on sale and keep them in storage.
Last edited by embguy on Jul 15th, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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[OP]
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Really?

The comments alone are nightmarish

Just one excerpt from the ultrastar from newegg. Who questionably ships harddrives, Thats been talked about here MANY times. if anything newegg + refurb should be double no. I guess you wish your worst enemy to get failed harddrives

": Each drive has upwards of 17,000 hours on it already was manufactured Nov 2012 - October 2013. Bad sectors plagued each drive I ordered--the kind of thing SMART info doesn't show. A whopping 8 of the 9 drives I ordered failed out of a RAID array on the initial build. And since these drives run HOT (upwards of 140 F) you have no reason to believe they'll last longer than the Newegg return window."
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Jul 3, 2009
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Well once you get larger RAID arrays... it's all about $/GB and buying in bulk.. I have 60 of the 3TB Ultrastars in FreeNAS and not a single failure to date... and even in the event of a single or multiple failures, they're cheap to replace... no shucking required... to each their own, just thought I'd toss it out there... as the title listed cheapest HDD on the market... which is inaccurate, in many measures, overall cost, you could likely find a 320GB HDD far cheaper, and in $/GB my price was less...
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flopticalcube wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 8:42 pm
Pop quiz: What has a higher probability of failure over the next year? A new drive or a drive half-way through its life? Think carefully.
I agree with you and just in case some people miss your wisdom here, let me answer your question directly. The way your question is formulated, without warranty implication, then definitely, the brand new Seagate has a significantly greater probability of failure over the next year than the refurb HGST Ultrastar. That is because the yearly rate of failure diminishes with time. The highest rate of failures happen in year number one. Then a little less in year number 2, then 3, etc. If something has to go wrong, it will likely go wrong in the first year. If it passes that first year, it's likely it will go on until the end of its life.

Now if you throw in the warranty variable, that's a different equation.
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H3||scr3am wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:01 pm
Well once you get larger RAID arrays... it's all about $/GB and buying in bulk.. I have 60 of the 3TB Ultrastars in FreeNAS and not a single failure to date... and even in the event of a single or multiple failures, they're cheap to replace... no shucking required... to each their own, just thought I'd toss it out there... as the title listed cheapest HDD on the market... which is inaccurate, in many measures, overall cost, you could likely find a 320GB HDD far cheaper, and in $/GB my price was less...
Im looking for cheap offline storage, i can keep adding too that is hassle free, I dont want to pull out a drive and have it fail because i chose some refurb drive. Id expect a low hour low usage brand new drive to still have less risk of failing then some refurb newegg ships you for 79$.

That being said. If i was running 60 in freenas id probably do the same, AS you can probably survive alot of drives failing at once and still not go down.
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I know this is for a Seagate - For those mentioning WD - Don't WD's have the disadvantage to not being able to be removed from the case and hooked up via Sata in case of a drive failure? (Encrypted through the case hookup.) < Loosely termed, lol. You guys will know what I'm talking about. I have also had good luck with WD. Do you guys send back a drive if it fails, with all of your personal data on it? Sometimes in a fail you can't get it back, so you just send it back?
Last edited by jory29 on Jul 15th, 2017 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jory29 wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:04 pm
I know this is for a Seagate - For those mentioning WD - Don't WD have the disadvantage to not being able to be removed from the case and hooked up via Sata? (Encrypted through the case hookup.) < Loosely termed, lol. You guys will know what I'm talking about. I have also had good luck with WD. Do you guys send back a drive if it fails, with all of your personal data on it? Sometimes in a fail you can't get it back, so you just send it back?
I'f I'm reading this correctly:

1) WD hardware encryption? I don't know if external WD drives offer/force this type of thing, it's possible...
2) Failed drives for me; I keep my drives encrypted, so failed drives can be sent back without issue of the manufacturer seeing my data. If they're unencrypted; DBAN and Drill... or out of warranty just electronics recycling...
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H3||scr3am wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:10 pm
I'f I'm reading this correctly:

1) WD hardware encryption? I don't know if external WD drives offer/force this type of thing, it's possible...
2) Failed drives for me; I keep my drives encrypted, so failed drives can be sent back without issue of the manufacturer seeing my data. If they're unencrypted; DBAN and Drill... or out of warranty just electronics recycling...
It's this type of thing I'm referring to: https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/wd ... d.2460318/

Backing up an encrypted drive sounds like it may or may not (remain encrypted)? https://askleo.com/how-should-i-back-up ... hard-disk/
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What exactly does the warranty entail? The price of the drive is peanuts compared to the sheer effort of collecting several terabytes of data. Will they provide enterprise level recovery solutions?
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LarissaC wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:28 pm
What exactly does the warranty entail? The price of the drive is peanuts compared to the sheer effort of collecting several terabytes of data. Will they provide enterprise level recovery solutions?
Warranty does not cover data recovery. - just drive replacement.
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Temporel wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:03 pm
I agree with you and just in case some people miss your wisdom here, let me answer your question directly.
If only people back their "wisdom" up with actual data. All the recent test from blackblaze shown Seagate is no less reliable compare to most other brand.
The way your question is formulated, without warranty implication, then definitely, the brand new Seagate has a significantly greater probability of failure over the next year than the refurb HGST Ultrastar. That is because the yearly rate of failure diminishes with time. The highest rate of failures happen in year number one. Then a little less in year number 2, then 3, etc. If something has to go wrong, it will likely go wrong in the first year. If it passes that first year, it's likely it will go on until the end of its life.

Now if you throw in the warranty variable, that's a different equation.
Even if you throw Warranty out of the equation it is still a bad move. Hard drive doesn't magically stop wearing out after the first year. The first year will surface quality issue, but each year there are going to be regular designed failure and wear and tear ontop. Just cause the drive didn't fail on the first year, doesn't mean the drive isn't designed to only last a few years. Every spinning disk drive will fail. And each year of use increase the odd of it failing. This is a statistic certainty.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand someone not liking a Seagate brand and prefer another one even if it cost a little more. But taking drive that has been used 24/7 for years with extremely poor feedback rating over a brand new Seagate drive? That is what I call irrational to the extreme.

Either that, or they just plain don't understand how statistic works.
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ID01 wrote:
Jul 15th, 2017 11:38 pm
Even if you throw Warranty out of the equation it is still a bad move. Hard drive doesn't magically stop wearing out after the first year. The first year will surface quality issue, but each year there are going to be regular designed failure and wear and tear ontop. Just cause the drive didn't fail on the first year, doesn't mean the drive isn't designed to only last a few years. Every spinning disk drive will fail. And each year of use increase the odd of it failing. This is a statistic certainty.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally understand someone not liking a Seagate brand and prefer another one even if it cost a little more. But taking drive that has been used 24/7 for years with extremely poor feedback rating over a brand new Seagate drive? That is what I call irrational to the extreme.

Either that, or they just plain don't understand how statistic works.
Bathtub failure curve + HGST Ultrastar's stellar reputation. Its not the 24/7 operation that wears a drive down: spindowns/startups and humidity are the killers. Servers never shut their drives down and have climate controlled environments.
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flopticalcube wrote:
Jul 16th, 2017 12:13 am
Bathtub failure curve + HGST Ultrastar's stellar reputation. Its not the 24/7 operation that wears a drive down: spindowns/startups and humidity are the killers. Servers never shut their drives down and have climate controlled environments.
I really don't like people spreading these "information" without any evident whatsoever to back them up. It sounds convincing, but all of these claim are purely urban legend at best. Until I see actual data supporting those they really don't mean anything.
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ID01 wrote:
Jul 16th, 2017 12:21 am
I really don't like people spreading these "information" without any evident whatsoever to back them up. It sounds convincing, but all of these claim are purely urban legend at best. Until I see actual data supporting those they really don't mean anything.
http://0b4af6cdc2f0c5998459-c0245c5c937 ... usakis.pdf
Thus,
in this paper, we use data from nine hyperscale datacenters
to study the impact of environmental conditions on
the reliability of server hardware, with a particular focus
on disk drives and free cooling. Based on this study,
we derive and validate a new model of disk lifetime as a
function of environmental conditions. Furthermore, we
quantify the tradeoffs between energy consumption, environmental
conditions, component reliability, and datacenter
costs. Finally, based on our analyses and model,
we derive server and datacenter design lessons.
We draw many interesting observations, including (1)
relative humidity seems to have a dominant impact on
component failures; (2) disk failures increase signifi-
cantly when operating at high relative humidity, due to
controller/adaptor malfunction
; and (3) though higher
relative humidity increases component failures, software
availability techniques can mask them and enable freecooled
operation, resulting in significantly lower infrastructure
and energy costs that far outweigh the cost of the
extra component failures.
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Aug 31, 2005
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Thank you for the information focusing on humidity. Though I should probably specifies that this part "Its not the 24/7 operation that wears a drive down" is the actual questionable part. I don't think it is just conventional wisdom that humidity bring more failure to electronic component as a whole.

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