Careers

Second Career Program - Feedback .

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 13th, 2017 9:22 pm
Newbie
Apr 7, 2011
1 posts
Toronto
Hello all,

My wife is applying for second career and i've found this forum very insightful, but I had a question.

My wife was laid off in 2014 for medical reasons and has been jobless since. She has been approved as a strong candidate by her second career councillor to apply for the second career program but the application is asking for detailed information for all the jobs she has applied for since being laid off. She has been actively applying for jobs since healthy from Mar 2015 - October 2016, after being jobless in HR for so long she started researching a career in hairstyling and has been shadowing/volunteering at a friend's salon since October to see if this is a career she'd be interested in and it is.

The problem is my wife did not keep detailed records of all the previous jobs she applied for when unemployed. My question is how much detail is required for the previous job search log, we have found some of the jobs she applied for in old confirmation emails but they do not include contact names and numbers, how many job searches need to be logged for a successful application and if we can't fill out all the details in the log form can she still qualify? Do they actually follow up and contact the companies she has applied for jobs with since being laid off and what happens if the companies don't have solid historical records of everyone who has applied for expired job postings?

Thanks!
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
Wow - 18 months' job-search activity? That's a bit over-diligent on the part of the counsellor, in my opinion. To score maximum points for job-search, 6 months is needed.

Now, first of all, no-one will check with any employer regarding applications. The purpose of asking for job-search records is just to ensure that the applicant has exercised due diligence in looking for work. From my clients, the minimum I want to see listed per application is the position, employer, approximate date of the application (not everyone has email records, eg if a resume was dropped off in person) and whether there was any response. As to how many, that depends. If you're looking for work in retail or food service or manufacturing, for example, it's not unrealistic to expect 5-10 positions applied for per week. If you're looking for work in graphic design, maybe there'll be 1-2 positions per week, and sometimes fewer.

I would recommend that your wife ask her counsellor for advice on this, to find out exactly what the counsellor thinks is reasonable, The counsellor is there to help, and you have indicated that the counsellor is supportive of the application. One thing you may not be aware of, by the way, is that the job-search record is NOT sent to the Ministry. The counsellor writes a narrative about the applicant's job-search activity, and the record will inform that narrative.

Hope this helps.
watoos wrote:
Apr 8th, 2017 3:56 pm
Hello all,

My wife is applying for second career and i've found this forum very insightful, but I had a question.

My wife was laid off in 2014 for medical reasons and has been jobless since. She has been approved as a strong candidate by her second career councillor to apply for the second career program but the application is asking for detailed information for all the jobs she has applied for since being laid off. She has been actively applying for jobs since healthy from Mar 2015 - October 2016, after being jobless in HR for so long she started researching a career in hairstyling and has been shadowing/volunteering at a friend's salon since October to see if this is a career she'd be interested in and it is.

The problem is my wife did not keep detailed records of all the previous jobs she applied for when unemployed. My question is how much detail is required for the previous job search log, we have found some of the jobs she applied for in old confirmation emails but they do not include contact names and numbers, how many job searches need to be logged for a successful application and if we can't fill out all the details in the log form can she still qualify? Do they actually follow up and contact the companies she has applied for jobs with since being laid off and what happens if the companies don't have solid historical records of everyone who has applied for expired job postings?

Thanks!
Newbie
Aug 26, 2015
10 posts
Toronto, ON
Hi EmpCouns,
I am enrolling Early Childhood Educator program in a community college, Toronto. I have completed 2nd semester. 2 more semester remaining. But I need to go to visit my home country because by dad is sick. So right now I can not start my 3rd semester. In that case, what gonna happen to my second career?
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
zinnia wrote:
May 3rd, 2017 6:13 pm
Hi EmpCouns,
I am enrolling Early Childhood Educator program in a community college, Toronto. I have completed 2nd semester. 2 more semester remaining. But I need to go to visit my home country because by dad is sick. So right now I can not start my 3rd semester. In that case, what gonna happen to my second career?
I'm sorry to hear about your father. I would strongly advise that you contact your counsellor immediately to ask about your options. The college in this situation would allow you to take a break from your studies, and I've had clients whose SC contracts have been put on suspension while the client dealt with a family emergency or their own illness.

DO NOT leave the country without saying anything, because if payments continue to come to you and go to the college, these will then become overpayments which you'll be required to return - and also, by not telling the Ministry you're leaving, you'd be in breach of your Second Career contract and your funding may not be continued when you return. If you do everything properly by notifying your counsellor (and be clear about your date of departure and estimated date of return, and if your date of return has to be pushed back because of your father's sate of health then email your counsellor to let her/him know), then you should be able to resume your funding when you get back.
Newbie
May 11, 2017
1 posts
Hi Hi EmpCouns,

I am having problem with second career officer at the ministry. I have submitted all required docs and he keep saying I have over pymt of $60. My application is on hold. I advised him I don't have problems paying overpayment n ready to pay but there is no progression so far and 2 months past. My school already started and this is giving me stress. I think since he is always out of the office sick he wants to buy time and is giving me roundabouts. Should I go to the office directly?
Please help!
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
I don't understand from what you've said whether you're already in Second Career or waiting for an application to be approved - but if you have an overpayment you should just be able to pay it.

If the person you're dealing with at the Ministry isn't helpful or isn't available, you can call your local office and ask to speak to a manager. That may be the best way to get this resolved. Good luck!
Lugoyo wrote:
May 12th, 2017 10:35 pm
Hi Hi EmpCouns,

I am having problem with second career officer at the ministry. I have submitted all required docs and he keep saying I have over pymt of $60. My application is on hold. I advised him I don't have problems paying overpayment n ready to pay but there is no progression so far and 2 months past. My school already started and this is giving me stress. I think since he is always out of the office sick he wants to buy time and is giving me roundabouts. Should I go to the office directly?
Please help!
Newbie
May 22, 2017
4 posts
EmpCouns,

Thanks for providing feedback have been reading though you replies for the last few days and wanted to reach out in my scenario ; Ill give you the lowdown as best I can have submitted my application my employment Cons. Said I put a lot of effort into it I have went back two years in my job searching and have made a nice spreadsheet along with a nice written letter of introduction, reason why i want to go back to school, how much I need and why, pages from Canada related articles and trusted sites indicating the demand for software developers in the province and the projection of career growth... I have also scored 16-17 point I recall. My application has been submitted along with the letter from the school needless to say the application is pretty clean.

I graduated from Criminal & Justice - 2013 since have worked in Alberta and Ontario companies out of these companies I worked for 3 have closed and I have been laid off twice in the last 2 years in my NOC .D classification ( Labour related) Currently on EI ( Last payment on 26th) My question is more or less the process and how sticky they are with granting someone funds and the opportunity in context of my situation ? I should also mention I have gone to interviews for software development and have recorded them on the paper for the ministry to review and the verdict is essentially I keep getting beat out to computer Sci. grads and the employers want a little more formal education or credentials on my resume to go with.. I have highlighted this in my application and built my case around this as well as the constant layoffs and unpredictability of work and finacial gain from these types of seasonal jobs and basically demonstrate I have the skills and self-start attitude but need some help with meeting the demands of the employers by gaining more experience and credentials...
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
Has your application been submitted to the Ministry yet? Because the focus of Ministry officers in reviewing applications is checking to ensure compliance with the Second Career Guidelines, which you'll find here.

You must have been laid off - which you were,
You must meet all other eligibility criteria (no post-secondary training completed within the past two years, still be unemployed or working in a part-time or interim job etc).
You must show labour market demand for the training.
The occupation for which you want to train must be NOC B or C.

This last one is where I see you running into difficulty - and your counsellor should tell you this. Software development is a NOC A occupation. The only IT occupations that Second Career will fund are technical roles related to hardware/network support, or software testing. These are NOC B.

It sounds as if you've put a lot of effort into your research and documentation, but I would not expect to see that particular occupational goal approved, because it's outside the scope of the Second Career mandate:
Skills training is allowable for NOC skill level B and C (of the Statistics Canada NOC Skills
Matrix 2011) occupations and equivalent with good employment prospects in Ontario. This
includes programs provided by universities.
I'm quoting here from page 12 of the Guidelines.

I would strongly recommend that you talk with your counsellor about this as soon as possible. Your counsellor should have told you that your occupational goal is not possible under Second Career. If you were my client, I would advise that either you change your occupational goal or look into applying for OSAP (there are new grants available through OSAP that make applying through this program much more affordable for many people).

I'm sorry to deliver disappointing news. Everything else you've said about your situation and the way you've put together your research and documentation suggests that you should have every chance of being approved - but applications have to demonstrate compliance with the Second Career guidelines, and so I would not expect an application for software development training to be approved.
TravBound wrote:
May 23rd, 2017 4:34 pm
EmpCouns,

Thanks for providing feedback have been reading though you replies for the last few days and wanted to reach out in my scenario ; Ill give you the lowdown as best I can have submitted my application my employment Cons. Said I put a lot of effort into it I have went back two years in my job searching and have made a nice spreadsheet along with a nice written letter of introduction, reason why i want to go back to school, how much I need and why, pages from Canada related articles and trusted sites indicating the demand for software developers in the province and the projection of career growth... I have also scored 16-17 point I recall. My application has been submitted along with the letter from the school needless to say the application is pretty clean.

I graduated from Criminal & Justice - 2013 since have worked in Alberta and Ontario companies out of these companies I worked for 3 have closed and I have been laid off twice in the last 2 years in my NOC .D classification ( Labour related) Currently on EI ( Last payment on 26th) My question is more or less the process and how sticky they are with granting someone funds and the opportunity in context of my situation ? I should also mention I have gone to interviews for software development and have recorded them on the paper for the ministry to review and the verdict is essentially I keep getting beat out to computer Sci. grads and the employers want a little more formal education or credentials on my resume to go with.. I have highlighted this in my application and built my case around this as well as the constant layoffs and unpredictability of work and finacial gain from these types of seasonal jobs and basically demonstrate I have the skills and self-start attitude but need some help with meeting the demands of the employers by gaining more experience and credentials...
Newbie
May 22, 2017
4 posts
EmpCouns wrote:
May 23rd, 2017 10:13 pm
Has your application been submitted to the Ministry yet? Because the focus of Ministry officers in reviewing applications is checking to ensure compliance with the Second Career Guidelines, which you'll find here.

You must have been laid off - which you were,
You must meet all other eligibility criteria (no post-secondary training completed within the past two years, still be unemployed or working in a part-time or interim job etc).
You must show labour market demand for the training.
The occupation for which you want to train must be NOC B or C.

This last one is where I see you running into difficulty - and your counsellor should tell you this. Software development is a NOC A occupation. The only IT occupations that Second Career will fund are technical roles related to hardware/network support, or software testing. These are NOC B.

It sounds as if you've put a lot of effort into your research and documentation, but I would not expect to see that particular occupational goal approved, because it's outside the scope of the Second Career mandate:

I'm quoting here from page 12 of the Guidelines.

I would strongly recommend that you talk with your counsellor about this as soon as possible. Your counsellor should have told you that your occupational goal is not possible under Second Career. If you were my client, I would advise that either you change your occupational goal or look into applying for OSAP (there are new grants available through OSAP that make applying through this program much more affordable for many people).

I'm sorry to deliver disappointing news. Everything else you've said about your situation and the way you've put together your research and documentation suggests that you should have every chance of being approved - but applications have to demonstrate compliance with the Second Career guidelines, and so I would not expect an application for software development training to be approved.

Hey thanks for your quick response and apologies for not including more info.. I said software development loosely in a broad sense actually what the actual title of the course falls under is ( NOC B) Looked it up with my counsellor and confirmed it myself further- additionally school has confirmed it has had many ontario sec. career students and additionally is under the official Ontario second career private colleges ...sorry for the confusion! I guess I just wanted a second opinion from someone like yourself who deals with this stuff daily as this is new to me and kind of daunting in context of the anticipation I think the thing that got me the most is that I worked seasonal jobs and was a feast or famine life style which wasn't sustainable financially or in terms of family relations; Was super happy to hear about this program and attempt to participate in this.


So from my understanding the ministry is there in place to just to look over and make sure proper paperwork and supporting evidence and requirements are present ? With the employer Cons. do they have weight with the approval process? I have a great relationship with the person who prepared my document and we complimented each other in terms of me sending a nice email to her boss as well as employer counsellor writing that " individual has shown great effort and is extremely motivated" in the actual application that I signed when it was sent off :) Last little question I am required to sign another consent form that I was notified about this morning; is this positive or just standard?
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
Hi again,

Well, that's a relief! Yes, I know some of the private career colleges offer programs which could have multiple occupational goals, so as long as YOUR specified goal is not a NOC A position you should be fine.

The Ministry's role is to make sure all the program rules are met, that all the forms and supporting documentation is included, and that the application shows how you meet the criteria. So, for example, if you are assessed as having 16 points, does the evidence in the application show how the counsellor arrived at that assessment? They don't judge between applications - so it's not a case of a Ministry ETC deciding that Candidate A is more deserving than Candidate B.

Sounds like your counsellor did a good job with your application, from what you say. I hope you get good news soon. Your counsellor should be able to see within a week or so progress on reviewing your application on the online CaMS system, which I check to see whether my clients' applications are being worked on and whether it looks like a positive decision is coming (FYI, the majority of decisions are positive - the negative ones are where program criteria are not met or an exception request to suitability - the points matrix - is denied).

Re the other consent form, I assume it's one of the normal forms which is supposed to be signed as part of the application process - there is one giving consent to send tuition directly to the training institution, and another giving permission for the parties involved (Ministry, employment service provider and training institution) to talk to each other as part of supporting your application and, if approved, your training.

Good luck - I hope you hear good news soon.
TravBound wrote:
May 23rd, 2017 10:41 pm
Hey thanks for your quick response and apologies for not including more info.. I said software development loosely in a broad sense actually what the actual title of the course falls under is ( NOC B) Looked it up with my counsellor and confirmed it myself further- additionally school has confirmed it has had many ontario sec. career students and additionally is under the official Ontario second career private colleges ...sorry for the confusion! I guess I just wanted a second opinion from someone like yourself who deals with this stuff daily as this is new to me and kind of daunting in context of the anticipation I think the thing that got me the most is that I worked seasonal jobs and was a feast or famine life style which wasn't sustainable financially or in terms of family relations; Was super happy to hear about this program and attempt to participate in this.


So from my understanding the ministry is there in place to just to look over and make sure proper paperwork and supporting evidence and requirements are present ? With the employer Cons. do they have weight with the approval process? I have a great relationship with the person who prepared my document and we complimented each other in terms of me sending a nice email to her boss as well as employer counsellor writing that " individual has shown great effort and is extremely motivated" in the actual application that I signed when it was sent off :) Last little question I am required to sign another consent form that I was notified about this morning; is this positive or just standard?
Newbie
May 22, 2017
4 posts
EmpCouns wrote:
May 23rd, 2017 11:18 pm
Hi again,

Well, that's a relief! Yes, I know some of the private career colleges offer programs which could have multiple occupational goals, so as long as YOUR specified goal is not a NOC A position you should be fine.

The Ministry's role is to make sure all the program rules are met, that all the forms and supporting documentation is included, and that the application shows how you meet the criteria. So, for example, if you are assessed as having 16 points, does the evidence in the application show how the counsellor arrived at that assessment? They don't judge between applications - so it's not a case of a Ministry ETC deciding that Candidate A is more deserving than Candidate B.

Sounds like your counsellor did a good job with your application, from what you say. I hope you get good news soon. Your counsellor should be able to see within a week or so progress on reviewing your application on the online CaMS system, which I check to see whether my clients' applications are being worked on and whether it looks like a positive decision is coming (FYI, the majority of decisions are positive - the negative ones are where program criteria are not met or an exception request to suitability - the points matrix - is denied).

Re the other consent form, I assume it's one of the normal forms which is supposed to be signed as part of the application process - there is one giving consent to send tuition directly to the training institution, and another giving permission for the parties involved (Ministry, employment service provider and training institution) to talk to each other as part of supporting your application and, if approved, your training.

Good luck - I hope you hear good news soon.
Great thank you! you have cleared some stuff up! I will keep you posted on this thread and to share my results and what I did in a summary to help other applicants like myself succeed :)
Newbie
May 22, 2017
4 posts
TravBound wrote:
May 23rd, 2017 11:41 pm
Great thank you! you have cleared some stuff up! I will keep you posted on this thread and to share my results and what I did in a summary to help other applicants like myself succeed :)
Good news,

Essentially I am able to receive half the funds which i'm grateful for but am also being offered living expenses so in a way it balances it out if you think about it logically. What I can recommend to anyone in the future reading this is really put it a sincere effort on your part at every stage and be clear with your intentions and demonstrate that with job hunting etc. I had interviews in my area also drove to other cities looking for work and I documents this in my application and put in a sincere effort in context of my pitch to them like: who I am, where I am now (job) why I would like to use this service, what my future plans are , what i have done up until today to pursue the career I'm asking funds for and just be point blank honest about it realistically they're looking for dedication and a sincere need in terms of suitability they obviously have a budget so make it like you would any other project and put your proper time into it! you're asking the province of Ontario and its citizens for money, go at it intelligently and honestly and people will reward your efforts. I'll post here in these replies for the process of my schooling ( 10 wks) and just document any little bumps I may or may not have to help others in the future who come across this!
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
In your situation, it's very important to take the time to think about what's right for you and your family - and don't let anyone (especially a private career college's admissions officer) put pressure on you to decide. How would you keep up with your studies if you were to give birth halfway through your program? Would you be ready to look for work as soon as your program ended?

Going to a community college rather than a PCC seems to be a different question entirely - that decision should be based on a range of factors, including whether or not employers have a preference based on their impression of the quality of learning in one institution versus another. Would you, as a pregnant student or new parent, have better accommodation in a community college? I don't know - this is definitely a question to ask the training institutions.

You can absolutely delay your start date, and if I were your counsellor this is a conversation I would be initiating with you. The only way you'd lose your eligibility at this point (short of the Second Career program ending, and no-one I've spoken with in our local MAESD office believes that's under consideration) would be if you became employed again (other than <20 hours/week or in an interim job).
fsaarinen21 wrote:
Jun 4th, 2017 11:21 pm
Just wondering if anyone has any insight on this.. I'm in the process of applying for second career. My counselor is pretty certain I'm going to be approved . I'm planning on taking either a 34 week or 52 week program at a private college. My issue is that I just found out I am pregnant. I am supposed to start either August or September, but my EDD is February. Would I be better off going to a community college instead ? Is it possible to delay my start date until the following fall?
Newbie
Jun 18, 2017
1 posts
Hello EmpCouns,
I was in the process of applying for second career but I was told by the counsellor that I was not eligible because my ROE stated E code. I was on Ei for sometime and was informed that I could apply for second career.
Now, from my understanding you are not eligible for second career funding if you quit your job.
But, I had no other choice but to resign or be fired. Those were the only two options given to me by my company at the time because they couldn't give me a leave of absence tbat I need due to an emergency that came up. My supervisor then recommended I resign instead of being fired. And so I did. This is way I was given Ei. But, I understand Ei and second career have nothing to do with one another.
So,is it black and white like that. Am I really not eligible for second career because I resigned from my previous job even though I had no control over the matter.

Thanks in advance
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
Unfortunately, EI staff don't always understand the eligibility requirements for Second Career. Prior to 2010, when the old training program linked to EI was discontinued, if you qualified for EI you might have been able to get training under Ontario Skills Development. Now, though, there is only Second Career and you need to have been laid off, left a job on medical grounds, or have left on EI maternity/paternity leave, did not return to work at the end of that leave and are now returning to work.

Unless the emergency was related to your own health, it sounds like you're not eligible for Second Career, unfortunately.

If you found a temporary job, though, you might be able to apply once it ends - you'd still have to meet suitability criteria, but the eligibility part would be met.
Sumayacat wrote:
Jun 22nd, 2017 5:27 am
Hello EmpCouns,
I was in the process of applying for second career but I was told by the counsellor that I was not eligible because my ROE stated E code. I was on Ei for sometime and was informed that I could apply for second career.
Now, from my understanding you are not eligible for second career funding if you quit your job.
But, I had no other choice but to resign or be fired. Those were the only two options given to me by my company at the time because they couldn't give me a leave of absence tbat I need due to an emergency that came up. My supervisor then recommended I resign instead of being fired. And so I did. This is way I was given Ei. But, I understand Ei and second career have nothing to do with one another.
So,is it black and white like that. Am I really not eligible for second career because I resigned from my previous job even though I had no control over the matter.

Thanks in advance

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