Careers

Second Career Program - Feedback .

  • Last Updated:
  • Nov 13th, 2017 9:22 pm
Jr. Member
Mar 2, 2013
114 posts
19 upvotes
Hi EmpCouns,

First off, thank you so much for your time and assistance provided to everyone in this thread. After reading countless pages till my eyes glossed over, and not being able to find much when searching the thread; I'd like to ask what you can say regarding my situation.

In late July I was permanently laid off/downsized from my position where I had worked for just over 4 years. I currently have a Diploma in Computer Programming (2005) and Business Degree (2012) if that factors into anything.

I am debating getting my Realtor license and see that it is something SC appears to cover from my reading.

Of course being recently unemployed, once my severance ends in just over 2 months time, I will be applying for EI. Not understanding the whole program and how it works with individuals on EI, or applying for EI, I am really not sure the "questions" to even ask you regarding problems, etc.

A realtor license/training isn't something that takes 2 years, it can be done in 1-2 months. If I am on EI, or applying for EI, am I also able to apply to SC to cover the cost of realtor courses (approx 3400~) ?

Would SC give living allowances greater than what my EI entitlement is ? How do the two play together (does SC impact EI)? If SC gives an allowance to living expenses, is it only during the time of my courses?

If there is any information I can provide to you that would better help you inform me on my situation please let me know.

So grateful for your time and guidance.
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
Hi there,

Sorry to hear about your situation. Being laid off, you would meet initial eligibility criteria for Second Career; however, you will need to be assessed for suitability and financial feasibility before you can proceed with an application. Since your existing education is more than two years old, it would not prevent you qualifying; it affects you only in that you score fewer points in the education category.

Real estate training can be covered by Second Career; however, it's a reluctant cover, from what I have seen. There are two main areas of cost for real estate: the courses and the fees. Second Career only covers the tuition for the courses, not the additional fees, and the last time I saw the costs for both areas the fees were higher than the tuition. Why is Second Career reluctant about real estate? Because it's not a field where people are guaranteed to be successful. It's commission-only, for one thing, and for another there tends to be more people with real estate licences than there is work available (even in the current very hot housing market). It's very hard to get established in the real estate field, and many people never will - so the feeling is that the money paid for the training is wasted.

That said, I'll answer your other questions. You can apply for SC even if you're still receiving severance. If you're receiving either severance or EI, you're very unlikely to qualify for Basic Living Allowance in addition (your household income, which includes EI, is deducted from eligible expenses, and if your income is higher than the eligible expenses, then no BLA is payable). If you were eligible for BLA, you've guessed right: it's only during the precise period of the individual courses, and not in between. (Normally, SC will pay BLA for any break in studies of under three weeks, but we've been informed that for real estate there will be no payments during breaks, because there's rarely any certainty around how long the breaks will be). You would continue to receive your EI, however, for as many weeks as you are eligible to receive it.

A recommendation from me, however - which I would make (and have made) to any client of mine considering Second Career, and especially for an occupational goal which is risky - DO YOUR RESEARCH. You have to research anyway as part of the application, but take it really seriously. Is this an occupation where you genuinely think you can make a living? How will you pay your bills for the first year or so, during which you are likely to make very little money, if any? Are you comfortable living on an uncertain and fluctuating income? Are you willing to be available for work 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week? What will you do if things really don't work out for you in the field? Will you need a 'survival job' on the side in order to be able to afford to work as a real estate agent?

I hope this helps, and good luck.
rust0r1 wrote:
Aug 10th, 2017 12:09 am
Hi EmpCouns,

First off, thank you so much for your time and assistance provided to everyone in this thread. After reading countless pages till my eyes glossed over, and not being able to find much when searching the thread; I'd like to ask what you can say regarding my situation.

In late July I was permanently laid off/downsized from my position where I had worked for just over 4 years. I currently have a Diploma in Computer Programming (2005) and Business Degree (2012) if that factors into anything.

I am debating getting my Realtor license and see that it is something SC appears to cover from my reading.

Of course being recently unemployed, once my severance ends in just over 2 months time, I will be applying for EI. Not understanding the whole program and how it works with individuals on EI, or applying for EI, I am really not sure the "questions" to even ask you regarding problems, etc.

A realtor license/training isn't something that takes 2 years, it can be done in 1-2 months. If I am on EI, or applying for EI, am I also able to apply to SC to cover the cost of realtor courses (approx 3400~) ?

Would SC give living allowances greater than what my EI entitlement is ? How do the two play together (does SC impact EI)? If SC gives an allowance to living expenses, is it only during the time of my courses?

If there is any information I can provide to you that would better help you inform me on my situation please let me know.

So grateful for your time and guidance.
Newbie
Aug 11, 2017
3 posts
HI Empcouns,

I really found this forum useful and appreciate the answer that you gave and help guide people to succeed in SC.

i was laid off in march 2016 .Reason was given RESTRUCTURING("K "category reason others).Since then i went on parental leave till sep 28th 2016.
I am searching for job since then but not able to get a proper job.i am jobless now.(more then 26 weeks)
I am bachelors of computers done in 2000 and my experience is in computer and electronics manufacturing industry.
i am not able to find a job in computer/electronics manufacturing industry.as most of industries in shifted to mexico.
My education is too old(1996-2000) and it is not from canada.(but credential evaluation is equivalent to canadian bachelor degree)
I want to further study in computer networking which will help me get job in IT field but In my suitability assessment i got 15 points.
My employement counsellor is not willing to put up the file.
Can i put up with some exception?will it be approved?Kindly guide
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
I have submitted a number of 15-point applications with the exception rationale that the individual's education was either/both from outside Canada or too old to have labour market value. These have all been approved. I was recently given good reason to believe that education from outside Canada (evaluated or not) is considered an extremely valid reason to approve an exception request.

If your current counsellor will not recommend your application, find a new counsellor or agency. You have every right to close your file and go elsewhere.

Good luck!

iampathan wrote:
Aug 12th, 2017 3:17 pm
HI Empcouns,

I really found this forum useful and appreciate the answer that you gave and help guide people to succeed in SC.

i was laid off in march 2016 .Reason was given RESTRUCTURING("K "category reason others).Since then i went on parental leave till sep 28th 2016.
I am searching for job since then but not able to get a proper job.i am jobless now.(more then 26 weeks)
I am bachelors of computers done in 2000 and my experience is in computer and electronics manufacturing industry.
i am not able to find a job in computer/electronics manufacturing industry.as most of industries in shifted to mexico.
My education is too old(1996-2000) and it is not from canada.(but credential evaluation is equivalent to canadian bachelor degree)
I want to further study in computer networking which will help me get job in IT field but In my suitability assessment i got 15 points.
My employement counsellor is not willing to put up the file.
Can i put up with some exception?will it be approved?Kindly guide
Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
4 posts
HI Empcouns!!

I was laid off from my job and I want to apply for second career in Financial services(Insurance) but I have a Bachelor degree in Business Administration abroad. I tried to enter to CPA Chatered Professional Accounting ontario. They told me to take around 4 courses, just for upgrading; and then either go university or register with the CPA board to follow the regular program which can take around 2 years to finish it.
1- I worked as a french teacher for 1.5 years.
2- I have a bachelor degree in Business Administration nothing in teaching
3- I'll have sooner 26 weeks(job search and lay off)
4-I plan to make a graduate certificate in financial services: field Insurance

Questions:
1-Do you think that i can use my CPA report to confirm that my credential is not regognized in Ontario. In that i will have 3 points for that?
Because i see High school diploma or diploma non recognize in Ontario.

2- Do you think business administration is not too close to Insurance that mean is there a career change according to your opinion? I have any experience in my field(Business) , i worked only as french teacher.

2- Do you think i have a chance to qualify for second career according to the Matrix?


Thank you in advance!!
Newbie
Aug 11, 2017
3 posts
Thanks for the reply.
Your reply encourage me to find a suitable counsellor and to start to put up the file in ministry.
Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
4 posts
HI Empcouns!!

I was laid off from my job and I want to apply for second career in Financial services(Insurance) but I have a Bachelor degree in Business Administration abroad. I tried to enter to CPA Chatered Professional Accounting ontario. They told me to take around 4 courses, just for upgrading; and then either go university or register with the CPA board to follow the regular program which can take around 2 years to finish it.
1- I worked as a french teacher for 1.5 years.
2- I have a bachelor degree in Business Administration nothing in teaching
3- I'll have sooner 26 weeks(job search and lay off)
4-I plan to make a graduate certificate in financial services: field Insurance

Questions:
1-Do you think that i can use my CPA report to confirm that my credential is not regognized in Ontario. In that i will have 3 points for that?
Because i see High school diploma or diploma non recognize in Ontario.

2- Do you think business administration is not too close to Insurance that mean is there a career change according to your opinion? I have any experience in my field(Business) , i worked only as french teacher.

2- Do you think i have a chance to qualify for second career according to the Matrix?


Thank you in advance!!
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
jb2017 wrote:
Aug 14th, 2017 3:45 am
HI Empcouns!!

I was laid off from my job and I want to apply for second career in Financial services(Insurance) but I have a Bachelor degree in Business Administration abroad. I tried to enter to CPA Chatered Professional Accounting ontario. They told me to take around 4 courses, just for upgrading; and then either go university or register with the CPA board to follow the regular program which can take around 2 years to finish it.
1- I worked as a french teacher for 1.5 years.
2- I have a bachelor degree in Business Administration nothing in teaching
3- I'll have sooner 26 weeks(job search and lay off)
4-I plan to make a graduate certificate in financial services: field Insurance

Questions:
1-Do you think that i can use my CPA report to confirm that my credential is not regognized in Ontario. In that i will have 3 points for that?
Because i see High school diploma or diploma non recognize in Ontario.
The regulatory body telling you that you need to upgrade your education to obtain the relevant licence is not the same as saying your credential isn't recognised. In any case, the CPA is recognising your education. They're just saying that you need additional courses to meet their standards for licensure. You would need to have an evaluation from WES, ICAS or a similar service stating that your international bachelor's degree is not recognised. Even an evaluation stating that it isn't equivalent to a Canadian bachelor degree wouldn't work, because in those circumstances typically WES (or ICAS etc) evaluate it as a certain number of years of post-secondary education, which would give you two points for that area of the matrix.
2- Do you think business administration is not too close to Insurance that mean is there a career change according to your opinion? I have any experience in my field(Business) , i worked only as french teacher.
Second Career doesn't have to mean a career change. In any case, if you never worked in the business field, you have not had a career in business. Your career was in education. (And business and insurance are not the same occupation - they have different NOC codes).
2- Do you think i have a chance to qualify for second career according to the Matrix?
I have no idea. I don't know enough about your situation and have not conducted an assessment. You would need to meet with an employment counsellor to discuss your situation and find out, not only whether you meet the requirements for Second Career, but also whether it's the right option for you. I will say that if your only work experience in Canada is as a French teacher, you may struggle to make the 16 points, but you will need to be assessed in person.

If you're, say, one or two points short of the 16 but you and your counsellor agree that Second Career is a suitable option for you, it could be possible to submit the application with an exception request using the rationale that your existing education is from outside Canada and that you have no relevant work experience, either in or outside Canada.

Hope this helps.
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
iampathan wrote:
Aug 14th, 2017 9:26 am
Thanks for the reply.
Your reply encourage me to find a suitable counsellor and to start to put up the file in ministry.
It's good to hear that, and thank you for saying so! A lot of people never respond, so I don't know whether the information was helpful or not.

Good luck and let us know what happens!
Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
4 posts
Hi Empcouns!!

Thank you very much for your help.

I think i could have 15 points on the Matrix..
3+3---=6 points job search+ unemployment
2--education( Bachelor 3 years not equivalent)
1-Work history
3--Labour market prospect
3-- Type of training
0--- Experience(French teacher)----
Total 15points
How could i submit exceptionnal circumcances?
Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
4 posts
Hi;

Please iampathan:

Could you post something about your case if you find a counsellor who recommends your application under exceptions like Empcouns said!!!
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
551 posts
194 upvotes
I would estimate 13 points. Your bachelor's degree was evaluated, and so you cannot say it isn't equivalent. (Even if it had not been evaluated, Second Career would not accept a score of more than one without an official letter saying that your education is not equivalent. As I said, a regulatory body's assessment of what you need to do to become licensed is not the same as saying your education isn't recognised).

Also, is a licence mandatory for your desired occupation? If not, you get two points for labour market prospects.

As for how a case is made for an exception request, you don't do that. As I said in my earlier post, that needs to be submitted by your counsellor as part of the application. And, as I said, if your current counsellor doesn't want to do that, go elsewhere. However, if you are at 13 points it's a long shot - I would probably not put in an exception request with that score, unless there were other factors such as medical reasons meaning that the client has to change careers.
jb2017 wrote:
Aug 15th, 2017 12:14 pm
Hi Empcouns!!

Thank you very much for your help.

I think i could have 15 points on the Matrix..
3+3---=6 points job search+ unemployment
2--education( Bachelor 3 years not equivalent)
1-Work history
3--Labour market prospect
3-- Type of training
0--- Experience(French teacher)----
Total 15points
How could i submit exceptionnal circumcances?
Newbie
Aug 13, 2017
4 posts
Hi Empcouns!!

Thanks for replying...

Also i would like to ask a question.... What is a non recognized education ? How can i explain it?

1- My Bachelor is 3 years back home and they give me college diploma in Management..... I don't Know if a college diploma is also 1point in the Matrix.
2- Insurance Agent... https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/insurance ... iders.aspx
A Licence is necesary to become an Insurance Agent in Ontario.
Newbie
Aug 17, 2017
1 posts
Hello,

Does anyone know if the Basic Living Allowance offered through Second Career will cover my Condominum Fee's, as my condo fee's include heat and water, to which are deemed eligible expenses??
Newbie
Aug 11, 2017
3 posts
Hi jb2017,

Two of the employement ontario provider clearly denied applying at 15 points.They say ministry is very strict in this.I tried to convince but one of them said that if you insist they will put up but will not support the application.You may still submit it as an unsupported application.
On monday i am going to another employement ontario service provider and get my self assessed.i will update what reply i get.

HI Empcouns,

On eligibility and suitability assessment template it is clearly written "if score is 15 or lower,the individual must be directed to other programs.
most of them follow that strictly
Suggestion, if any employement service provider who at least support and put up the file to ministry with an exception.

Thanks and Regards

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