Careers

Second Career Program - Feedback .

  • Last Updated:
  • May 10th, 2018 10:17 pm
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
5 posts
Hi @EmpCouns , this is really a juicy discussion. May I have your help on below questions?

I'm now trying to help my wife to finish her application. Her counsellor told her she has 16 points. I have some questions when I tried to finish the package:
1. Financial Assessment: I should input the household income in Section E Financial Assessment, Part 1. If it's a gross income before tax, should we average the annual bonus to each month?
2. Part3: monthly Living Expenses: there are some information indicating the max. $$ for each category, should I just input the max amount or I should input the real expenses of what we spend? (I'm confused this section is for what we really spend or what we are applying for).
3. We have a property for investment but the net cash flow is negative even it's rental gross income is not that low. Does this factor impact our application?
4. I have salary, but my salary can only afford the mortgage + property tax, all our other living expense are from our savings. Does this impact our application?

Really appreciate if we can get an answer from you.
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
I can't comment on processing times, as every region is different - however, from what I've seen, Ministry staff do work very hard to deal with applications in time for start dates.

You would hear from the Ministry if you're approved - but in the meantime, your counsellor can check on the progress of your application by looking in CaMS (the Employment Ontario data management system) to see if there is activity on your file. This would show if your application is being worked on.

Good luck!
DonnaK267325 wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 3:55 pm
Hello EmpCouns I have a question or two as well I hope you can assist me with :)
I have sent in the entire SC package on Dec 20 and my class is to start January 22. Being we had the holiday season, what do you think my chances are of being able to start this class? Also, will I hear from SC or will all go through my EC? Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts :) Hope your day is awesome.
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
3 posts
Thank you very much EmpCouns for the response. I will contact my EC to ask is she sees anything. Have a great day :)
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
3 posts
I thought I would post in here that I have been approved and signing tomorrow. Thank you EmpCouns for your assistance :)
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
Congratulations! I hope all goes well with your studies.

And you're very welcome - I'm glad I could provide some reassurance :)
DonnaK267325 wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 4:00 pm
I thought I would post in here that I have been approved and signing tomorrow. Thank you EmpCouns for your assistance :)
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
5 posts
Hi @EmpCouns , Copy my questions down here, really need your advise.

I'm now trying to help my wife to finish her application. Her counsellor told her she has 16 points. I have some questions when I tried to finish the package:
1. Financial Assessment: I should input the household income in Section E Financial Assessment, Part 1. If it's a gross income before tax, should we average the annual bonus to each month?
2. Part3: monthly Living Expenses: there are some information indicating the max. $$ for each category, should I just input the max amount or I should input the real expenses of what we spend? (I'm confused this section is for what we really spend or what we are applying for).
3. We have a property for investment but the net cash flow is negative even it's rental gross income is not that low. Does this factor impact our application?
4. I have salary, but my salary can only afford the mortgage + property tax, all our other living expense are from our savings. Does this impact our application?

appreciate if we can get an answer from you.
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
This is where I wish applicants were given more help by their counsellors. I ask my clients to complete a budget form, and then we complete the financial assessment together. As you make clear, without the counsellor's input you aren't aware of the consequences of what you're doing.
Kevinfhuang wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 10:21 pm
Hi @EmpCouns , this is really a juicy discussion. May I have your help on below questions?

I'm now trying to help my wife to finish her application. Her counsellor told her she has 16 points. I have some questions when I tried to finish the package:
1. Financial Assessment: I should input the household income in Section E Financial Assessment, Part 1. If it's a gross income before tax, should we average the annual bonus to each month?
That's probably best, because basic living allowance - assuming she would qualify for one - is worked out based on monthly income. It's important to realise, also, that whether or not she is required to make a contribution to her education is based on household income (in this case, annual gross income).
2. Part3: monthly Living Expenses: there are some information indicating the max. $$ for each category, should I just input the max amount or I should input the real expenses of what we spend? (I'm confused this section is for what we really spend or what we are applying for).
Depends on what form you're working on (is this the 8-page Application for Financial Assistance, or the 2-page Estimate of Financial Assistance?). I assume it's the former. You should be entering your actual expenses, subject to the maximum amount (ie if your mortgage is $1250/month, that's what you put down. If it's $1600/month, you can only enter $1300). The Estimate of Financial Assistance allows clients to enter the actual amount, and it gets adjusted to the maximum allowed.

Your wife should be aware that if your household expenses are higher than the maximum allowed, if receiving Basic Living Allowance, or your income is not higher than the household expenses, she will need to come up with a plan for how she (and you) will be able to afford your household expenses during the period of her training.
3. We have a property for investment but the net cash flow is negative even it's rental gross income is not that low. Does this factor impact our application?
She should talk with her counsellor about this - this kind of situation complicates finances. We are supposed to list gross income, but where there are expenses it isn't straightforward, of course. And listing gross income without taking deductions into account could potentially push her into a higher contribution category if your household income puts her into contribution territory anyway.
4. I have salary, but my salary can only afford the mortgage + property tax, all our other living expense are from our savings. Does this impact our application?
One impact relates to affordability: can she demonstrate that she can afford to live while in training? The other is that (depending on that rental income), she may qualify for Basic Living Allowance.

I know this may not be making things very much clearer, but this is why it's important to sit down with a counsellor and go through the figures.

Bottom line regarding Basic Living Allowance: take your household income (including gross rental income and - if you have children - child tax benefit). Multiply by .6 to get net income (this is the calculation that we do). Take the allowed monthly expenses up to the maximum allowed - mortgage, food ($200/person), phone, internet, heat/hydro and water - and if this total is higher than net household income, she may qualify for BLA.

Hope this helps.
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
5 posts
@EmpCouns Another question please, my wife last year was just focusing on finding a job but didnot get it. So our two kids did not go to before after school last year. If she goes back to college this year we have to send them to childcare. That’s a big spend. My wife told me, she was told by her counsellor she will only be eligible for childcare only if we have such expense before she get to school. And she was asked to get the childcare owners signatory to confirm if we had before. Means if we didnot have childcare fee, then we cannot apply this financial assist. Is it true?
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
This appears to me to be a misunderstanding of the dependent care policy. If you had paid yourselves for childcare in the previous year and nothing had changed, the Ministry could assume that you can afford to keep paying for it. If this is a new expense (or an expense that was previously paid for from an income that isn't there any more) you are entitled to ask for it.

If the counsellor is still resistant to including childcare in the funding request, your wife could call the local MAESD office and ask to speak with an ETC who works on Second Career to get clarification. (ETC = Employment and Training Consultant). To find the local office, go here: http://www.infogo.gov.on.ca/infogo/#orgProfile/672/en Scroll down and identify your region under Reporting Organisations, and then on the next screen, also under Reporting Organisations, click on the office you're closest to. Your wife can call the general enquiries number and ask to speak with a Second Career specialist, as I suggested.
Kevinfhuang wrote:
Jan 16th, 2018 6:34 am
@EmpCouns Another question please, my wife last year was just focusing on finding a job but didnot get it. So our two kids did not go to before after school last year. If she goes back to college this year we have to send them to childcare. That’s a big spend. My wife told me, she was told by her counsellor she will only be eligible for childcare only if we have such expense before she get to school. And she was asked to get the childcare owners signatory to confirm if we had before. Means if we didnot have childcare fee, then we cannot apply this financial assist. Is it true?
Newbie
Jan 9, 2018
5 posts
@EmpCouns Thank you so much. Your explanation is clear enough. I had a very detail reading for all SC related materials. Now I understand, from the SC estimate of financial assistance form, if our household income * 0.66 is greater than the allowable expenses, then my wife will not be eligible for Basic Living Allowance. And from the dependent care costs request form, it states the financial assistant is for those who have incremental child care cost. But I'm confused, is this financial assistant also depend on the household income?
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
You can request childcare assistance even if you don't qualify for basic living allowance. The only factor that will affect how much you can receive - and this applies to other training costs as well (tuition, books etc) - is whether your household income is high enough for your wife to have to pay a contribution towards the cost of training.

The contribution chart used to be attached to one of the application forms. It's not any more, but you'll find it here: http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/eopg/publi ... art-en.pdf

The way to read this is as follows: read down the left-hand side to find your household size (number of people, adults + children). Then read across to find your gross annual household income. Then read up to find the percentage contribution.

For instance: if there are four people in your household, and your gross annual income is $65,000, the contribution required is 9%. That is 9% of everything: tuition, books, dependent care, transportation etc. As for how that can be paid, it's flexible. I always work it out so that it's distributed through the program, rather than a lump sum paid up front, but your wife should be able to talk with her counsellor about how it can be done, if a contribution is required.

Kevinfhuang wrote:
Jan 17th, 2018 7:56 pm
@EmpCouns Thank you so much. Your explanation is clear enough. I had a very detail reading for all SC related materials. Now I understand, from the SC estimate of financial assistance form, if our household income * 0.66 is greater than the allowable expenses, then my wife will not be eligible for Basic Living Allowance. And from the dependent care costs request form, it states the financial assistant is for those who have incremental child care cost. But I'm confused, is this financial assistant also depend on the household income?
Newbie
Jan 23, 2018
1 posts
I just went through the second career process and I am now in school. As far as U.I goes, I believe it doesn't really matter, the only difference it would make is how much $ you got for living expences. It wouldn't affect funds given for tuition etc.
Newbie
Jan 24, 2018
2 posts
Hello!

I am wondering if there is anything pertinent I need to know before my first meeting with my counsellor.

I was laid off in october, but with a package so did not qualify for EI. I hoping to join the SC program but know very little about how to actually qualify (points?). I am recently divorced and have used most of my package from my last employer to pay for legalizing my basement apartment for extra income to support myself/so I don;t have to move (it is still not ready until spring).

Do I need to be concerned about any of the above?

Thanks in advance!
Lianne
Sr. Member
Aug 2, 2012
638 posts
233 upvotes
None of that should matter with regard to Second Career - although if you get a tenant that will count as income which will be taken into account when calculating financial assistance, assuming you qualify.

A Second Career assessor will want to know that you are eligible (laid off, in your case), and will then assess you against a series of criteria (duration of unemployment, length of active job-search, level of education, length of time in the occupation you've worked in the longest, whether your desired occupation requires a licence, whether the training program fits Second Career rules, and what the skill level of your longest occupation is). You can't be funded for a program longer than two years, or for an occupational goal in the highest or lowest skill level (your counsellor will explain these).

Regarding EI, you should be eligible to apply once the period to which your severance applies expires. It could be worthwhile, as EI is normally higher than whatever basic living allowance you may be eligible for.
LianneL480145 wrote:
Jan 25th, 2018 6:40 pm
Hello!

I am wondering if there is anything pertinent I need to know before my first meeting with my counsellor.

I was laid off in october, but with a package so did not qualify for EI. I hoping to join the SC program but know very little about how to actually qualify (points?). I am recently divorced and have used most of my package from my last employer to pay for legalizing my basement apartment for extra income to support myself/so I don;t have to move (it is still not ready until spring).

Do I need to be concerned about any of the above?

Thanks in advance!
Lianne

Top