Careers

Second Career Program - Feedback .

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 28th, 2016 9:08 am
Member
Dec 12, 2010
242 posts
65 upvotes
Good morning Drrs,
drrs wrote:
Jul 26th, 2012 3:50 pm
In Ontario there are just community colleges which have this program, no private colleges.So what I am supposed to fill in my application.
Well it depends on what type of technologist you are going to be, if it is a medical lab technician/technologist then there are a couple of Private Career Colleges that you can technically research such as Trios (please don’t shiver too much). However you can just research 3 community colleges and inform your Second Career counselor that you were unable to find a PCC to research and they would make a note of it for their service plan.
drrs wrote:
Jul 26th, 2012 3:50 pm
Also the colleges that I applied is the cheapest as fees but the program costs is 10900 +books.So I can apply or not.
Simple answer yes. Long answer is that under the details of tuition in the Estimate of Financial Support form you will see it states College of Applied Arts and Technology – Actual Tuition Cost. Books are also separate from tuition so will be assessed separately. So yes go ahead and apply.
drrs wrote:
Jul 26th, 2012 3:50 pm
For BLA I will not qualify but I have a child who must go to daycare for the entire program(70 weeks). Will be provided child care allowances or not if I will not receive BLA.
Child care is considered separately from the BLA and is from a separate pot of money outside of the $28,000 assigned to Second Career. In order to apply for it you will have to fill out the required forms (found here http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/eopg/progr ... areer.html) and provide details of who was responsible for day care costs over the past year and how you paid for them.
drrs wrote:
Jul 26th, 2012 3:50 pm
I got the acceptance letter in July 23 for entrance in September 1 2012 so will be possible to be processed till that date considering that I will ask a defferal policy from the College. Thank you for your kindness
Technically speaking the earlier your application is submitted the better but as it will be submitted next week I don’t see why you wouldn’t receive notification from MTCU regarding your case prior to the start date. Also most colleges will only allow around 5 days after the official start date of the course for people to enter which gives a little bit of wiggle room but only a little.

Good luck with the rest of your application and I hope everything works out.
Member
Aug 19, 2010
290 posts
16 upvotes
What is the employment rate for 2nd career students?
Newbie
Aug 14, 2007
74 posts
12 upvotes
Etobicoke
It all depends which program you're talking about.. For my program which is Electromechanica Tech/Mechanical Tech.. Almost all the students that went through my school were able to find employment atleast the once that are graduating this semester have landed jobs... So, it depends case to case...
jesb wrote:
Jul 28th, 2012 12:20 pm
What is the employment rate for 2nd career students?
Member
Dec 12, 2010
242 posts
65 upvotes
Total employment rate really hard to say as Service providers only track Second Career clients for a year after completion of training. According to the liberals 74 per cent of people have found a job within a year of graduating their program (source: http://halton.ridingassociation.org/pDocument/482?l=EN). However like Mehsham said some programs have a higher employment rates than others; for example in the past year the two programs with the highest number of graduates working have been RPN and the AZ course. However when our company first started delivering the Second Career program the AZ course had one of the lowest employment rates, things change.

Also you should be aware that service providers are only aware of their own employment rates and are reliant on the information released by the province just like everybody else. So unless they tell me I have no idea what employment rate a Service Provider in downtown Toronto has with their Second Career clients vs a service provider in Guelph.
jesb wrote:
Jul 28th, 2012 12:20 pm
What is the employment rate for 2nd career students?
Member
Aug 2, 2012
488 posts
189 upvotes
As another service provider involved in helping clients to apply for Seconds Career, I want to echo and support what SCapp has said about getting the most from your employment counsellor. Your counsellor is your gateway to apply for the program. If you don't feel that you're getting the help you need: do something about it. Yes, we all have many clients to look after (my client load has almost doubled in the last couple of years), but we are still responsible for doing the very best we can for our clients.

You have responsibilities as an applicant:
- to do your research as carefully as possible, and on time
- to keep job-searching and keep detailed records to prove your activities
- to make sure that you work out your financial situation carefully, in discussion with your counsellor, to understand what you are likely to be living on while in training and work out how you can live in what MTCU calls a 'deficit budget'
- and give yourself enough time to do all of this - you can't show up on a service provider's doorstep four weeks before your chosen program starts (particularly if you don't even have a letter of acceptance) and assume that you'll get everything done and approved in time
- if your counsellor contacts you to say that s/he needs all your documents complete by a certain date to allow her/him to get your application submitted in time for MTCU to review it before your start date, respond QUICKLY! We do that because preparing the applications, even after you've done all your part, does take quite a while. I finished one today for a client; I had spent about three hours on it last week, and then five hours today to finalise everything, including some time spent with her. If I have a full schedule of booked appointments, I need to fit this work in around my other clients. If I have a lot of clients applying for a popular start date, I've got to fit in the time to finalise all their applications - and if the client needs to change anything, then that will mean redoing at least four documents, quite often with significant amendments, and then rechecking all over again. One client recently changed what she wanted to include in her application for basic living allowance FOUR times - and each time the financial information had to be redone and all the documents reprinted.

That said, you should expect the following from your counsellor:
- accurate advice and guidance
- understanding of your situation (even if that does mean that sometimes you're asked questions you might find intrusive - I don't like doing it, but the rules require that I ask some detailed questions about your finances, your family situation, why you left jobs in the past, whether or not you've been getting interviews, whether you have a criminal record and so on)
- empathy and willingness to be supportive, and taking the time to explain why you don't qualify, if you don't, and to offer alternatives
- follow-up appointments within a reasonable time to help you prepare your application - though a 'reasonable time' will depend on demand for service within your region. Wait time for a first appointment at my agency, and pretty much any agency in my city, is 2.5 weeks. My existing clients tend to have to wait around a week and a half for a follow-up appointment


If you feel that your counsellor is not supportive, or is not explaining things clearly enough or not advocating sufficiently for you, then - as SCapp says - complain. Ask to speak to another counsellor at the agency, or the counselling team leader/manager. You're well within your rights to do that, and most agencies have a client service charter which clearly states your right to do that. If you feel that the agency isn't responding to your needs or giving you a fair chance, switch to a different agency. Most regions, unless you're in a very rural area, have more than one service provider. My city, which is not Toronto, has eight. (If there's only one provider in your region, call MTCU and explain why you're not happy with your provider). You may be asked by the new agency whether you are already registered elsewhere, because you can only be registered with one Employment Ontario provider at any one time - tell them that you are, but that you want to switch. Usually, we'll just ask you either to call the other agency to close your file, or have you sign a file transfer form which we will fax to the other provider for you.

Service providers do vary in their knowledge, and in their interpretation of the rules - it infuriates me when I meet clients who say they were told by other providers that they don't qualify because they have university education. As SCapp has said, that's not true - it depends on a range of factors. I also had a client this week tell me that another provider told her that she is too young to qualify, despite having been laid off; that provider scored the client at less than 10, whereas I see a clear 15 points, or 16 if she elects for a regulated profession - plus in two months' time her points will go up by two. I have no idea what that other provider was thinking of, especially as our local MTCU office made very clear at meetings with service providers that SC is not about age; it's about identifying individuals whose current skill-set or education is trapping them in a cycle of short-term or low-skill jobs they can't get out of.

Second Career has helped many people get training they couldn't have afforded on their own, and then into good jobs at the end of it - but at the same time, it's not a miracle cure, and it's not right for everyone. If you do think that it's right for you and that you should qualify according to the rules, then ask and ask and keep asking until either you get a counsellor you trust who does their best to help you, or you understand why you're being told that you don't qualify. MTCU has finally issued a clear explanation of the program and eligibility criteria for applicants, and you can find it here:

http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/eng/eopg/publi ... lients.pdf

Keep asking questions - if I can help, I'll do my best to back up SCapp and his very helpful posts.
Newbie
Jul 22, 2008
25 posts
I have almost completed my SECOND CAREER documentation. THE ONLY THING I'M MISSING IS THE INTERVIEWS, which I've tried for several months to get completed with no luck. If any of you are in the IT field, or know anyone in the IT field who could help me, it would be greatly appreciated. At this point, I will even make it monetarily worth someone's while if they can help me get two of these sheets filled out. Thanks in advance, and thanks for this great thread with so much great information. my email is stephenjameswright@gmail.com
Member
Aug 2, 2012
488 posts
189 upvotes
Which field of IT? It matters: a developer isn't likely to be able to give you solid labour market information about hardware or networking, for example. Also, you want people in the same geographical area as yourself, so that they can comment on the reputation of the specific colleges and programs you're considering. You don't want to waste time, and perhaps some of your own money, on a program that is not highly regarded by employers.

You say you've tried to get the interviews completed. Have you tried ways of networking with IT professionals? Are you on LinkedIn? If so, join some LinkedIn networking groups for IT professionals, and ask for three people in your desired field and geographic area to answer your questions. If you ask politely and professionally enough, I'm sure you'll get some volunteers - and you'll even have begun networking to help you in your job-search for when you graduate.

Good luck - I hope you get your interviews.
Member
Dec 12, 2010
242 posts
65 upvotes
In addition to what EmpCouns said see if you can get any assistance from the Job Developers that work at the Service Provider you are dealing with. Often times they will know employers that are willing to conduct informational interviews for clients looking to get in to the field. I would also check with your counsellor if there is any other information that could be submitted in place of the interview (especially if they are aware of the difficulty of pinning an employer down), such as articles from industry publications, copies of LinkedIn discussions etc.
elchubbo wrote:
Aug 6th, 2012 7:31 pm
I have almost completed my SECOND CAREER documentation. THE ONLY THING I'M MISSING IS THE INTERVIEWS, which I've tried for several months to get completed with no luck. If any of you are in the IT field, or know anyone in the IT field who could help me, it would be greatly appreciated. At this point, I will even make it monetarily worth someone's while if they can help me get two of these sheets filled out. Thanks in advance, and thanks for this great thread with so much great information. my email is stephenjameswright@gmail.com
Newbie
Aug 10, 2012
4 posts
MISSISSAUGA
Do not waste your efforts on this "feel good, government doing us a favor" program. Their misdirection and hidden costs are self serving to the overwhleming over-abundance of social workers interested in securing their careers. If fact, the saying goes, enroll in a social services course for a guaranteed secure career choice. Do yourself a favor, borrow the money and enroll in what you think is secure. And don't buy into the counselling of the damned, who says what you think is not more important than they say you should do, but dish out to same advice to the next in line to be run over. Save yourself the humiliation, and do things yourself, there is no help with them, only more pain and poverty.
Member
Dec 12, 2010
242 posts
65 upvotes
I’m sorry that this has been you’re experience with the program If you’ve read anything in this thread you will see that I’ve stated on several occasions that counsellors shouldn’t be forcing people into career paths that clients are not sure about as that goes against the career counselling process. I feel that this is one of the unfortunate side effects of there being no regulating body for this particular field (although there are plans in the work to bring about some sort of regulation).

Realistically speaking every counsellor should be getting the client to research careers and put them through assessments to help determine their interest Unfortunately that requires work for the client which they don’t often like to do and instead ask the question “what do you think I should be doing?” Now when I get asked that question I tell clients I’m not them so what I would pick is not necessarily what they would enjoy so go do the work, other counsellors though (through either laziness or poor training) start to tell the client what they should be doing. This can actually become habit forming to the point where counsellors just start telling clients what they should be doing before they even start the research.

However as myself and other such as EmpCouns have said, if you’re not happy complain, get another counsellor or go to another centre you have that right. I don’t believe that Second Career is a waste of time (you can disagree if you want, I know you may include me with the damned :) ) but it has helped numerous individuals get back on their feet as not everyone can simply borrow the money to do things on their own.

Also just to speak out against the myth for those that might be interested; Social Services is not a guaranteed career choice, depending on where in Ontario you live and with the number of new graduates seeking employment in this field some colleges are seeing a downturn in the number of graduates employed in the field for example while Sheridan College reports a graduate employment rate in the field of 78% colleges like Fanshaw has 3 streams and employment rates in the field between 42% - 70% depending on the stream, Niagara has 68% and Mohawk reporting only 46% of graduates employed in the field. So in this industry your mileage will vary. In fact looking at my own clients the most successful ones (who found work in less than 3 months of graduating) were the ones completing training in Nursing, Educational Assistants and Truck Driving. The ones who went through Social / Community services took on average of over 6 months to find employment and about 1/3 of these are only working part time.
crashnburn41 wrote:
Aug 11th, 2012 1:50 pm
Do not waste your efforts on this "feel good, government doing us a favor" program. Their misdirection and hidden costs are self serving to the overwhleming over-abundance of social workers interested in securing their careers. If fact, the saying goes, enroll in a social services course for a guaranteed secure career choice. Do yourself a favor, borrow the money and enroll in what you think is secure. And don't buy into the counselling of the damned, who says what you think is not more important than they say you should do, but dish out to same advice to the next in line to be run over. Save yourself the humiliation, and do things yourself, there is no help with them, only more pain and poverty.
Newbie
Aug 10, 2012
4 posts
MISSISSAUGA
Misdirection and crocodile apologies are couple tools used by these self-serving tax-munchers. Others, are quoting statistics, and statements that imitate "should do", and " i know". Trouble is, the social climate is full of disdain and spite against the governing bodies, and that has spread like a disease. Unfortunately, this has been not just a unhealthy social effect, it has attracted scavengers of the system, that feed and flourish in this climate like weeds. The outlook seems that change will not happen gradually, but only sudden and dramatic events that rise out of the increasing oppression may be the only catalyst that breaks the cycle.
Member
Aug 2, 2012
488 posts
189 upvotes
Crashnburn41, do you have a specific complaint with Second Career, or with employment counsellors? Or are you just airing general gripes based on hearsay? It's fine either way as far as I'm concerned, but I think people who may be considering applying for Second Career funding deserve to hear about honest experiences, good or bad.

The program demands that applicants research the labour market to establish whether there are jobs in their desired field. To me, that's fair: what's the point, as far as government is concerned, in paying for someone to study something where they will never get work in the field? The clients I work with tend to want to know what the possibilities are of finding work, also; they don't want to give up six months to two years of their lives and end up back in the same minimum wage McJob that they had before. Statistics on employment outcomes a are relevant labour market information. These statistics are available and it's absolutely right that those professionals who know where to find them can show their clients where to find the information also.

I can only speak for myself, but when I talk about my experience of working with clients here - and I believe the same is true of SCapp - I am being honest with you and with other users. If you care to dismiss that as 'misdirection' or 'self-serving', that's your prerogative. It's clear that those of us who work in the field of employment counselling aren't going to convince you of the genuineness of our intentions. Again, it's your prerogative not to believe us, though I would say that I am doing you the courtesy of taking your complaints against the system seriously. Why won't you do me the courtesy of believing that I am genuine and honest in what I am saying to you in return?
Newbie
Jun 23, 2012
26 posts
Hello,

I'm having a problem with my application. I left my job for medical reasons in Dec of 2011 as advised by my Dr. I got Sickness benefits and I was switched over to regular benefits based on all the paperwork I submitted (even though it did take 6 weeks of calling and finally contacting office of client satisfaction). The problem was I have asthma and am prone to recurring respiratory infections and also pneumonia. I've had bronchitis for about 6 months of the past year. My counselor said MTCU might reject my application because "they might say if you're well now, go back to the same job field then". He said it would have to be a permanent disability type of thing that keeps me from working in my prior field (retail). He says they may suggest go back to retail but do light duties. I meet all of the other qualifications and have 18/19 points on the checklist. They requested a doctors note saying that even though he recommend that I quit my previous job, it shouldn't effect training for a career in a new field (computer work). My counselor said the note is not good enough. Do you think there is a good chance MTCU would approve my application? I have been in retail for the past 7-10 years. The counselor said that he may not even be able to sign off on my file. Would a more detailed explanation from my doctor explaining that a less strenuous job,aka desk job/tech job, which is what I want to go to school for, would be better for my overall health and would help my breathing problems, be something that MTCU would need before approving my application?

Thanks
Member
Dec 12, 2010
242 posts
65 upvotes
Hey Scoby

I honestly can't see why they would reject you based on the evidence that you provided to date however the more detail that can be included in the doctor's note the better; especially if the issue of needing to be in a less strenuous environment is true. As with anything connected to Second Career when the ministry looks at your file the first thing they are looking for is, are you accessing Second Career as a last resort. So in your situation they don't care so much about what the medical issue was but what you have done to find work since. The fact that you have a doctor's note at all is a good thing as it shows that you have been seeking medical advice and not just making your own reasons up for finding another job (which would cause them to reject the application).

Also while I doubt that the Ministry would suggest going back and doing light duties in retail (which would only exist in a store that has no customers) I would make sure you include in your application a statement (or as part of the return to work / employment action plan you created) about the difficulties of finding light duties within retail to cover your bases.
scooby81 wrote:
Aug 13th, 2012 11:57 pm
Would a more detailed explanation from my doctor explaining that a less strenuous job,aka desk job/tech job, which is what I want to go to school for, would be better for my overall health and would help my breathing problems, be something that MTCU would need before approving my application?
/QUOTE]
Newbie
Aug 14, 2012
6 posts
Hey Everyone,

i was let go from the telecommunications business on july 5th 2012 and have applied for second career. the process is a long one but well worth it. i started off reading this site at the early stages of filling out the application and almost stopped because of the negative feedback that was coming through. and then i started following Scapp and Empcouns. the feed back they have provide is not only very professional but very accurate. i am submitting the application tomorrow and hope to hear back from mtcu shortly there after. if it was not for these to gentleman/females (sorry not sure of gender) i would have stopped the process.

only problem i had was with one of the colleges. as we need three colleges with the same program and the info on the course. yesterday i spent all day calling one college just to find out how much the tuition would be and how long the course would be. to this very moment they have not returned any of my phone calls and i have moved on to a diffrent college for the info.

my word of advice to everyone is set an agenda to get things completed and stick with it. if you want motivation read these posts. second career went from 6 months to get accepted down to a couple weeks. progress is being made on streamlining the process and it is worth every second of it
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