Automotive

Self Driving Car..Who's at fault?

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  • Oct 19th, 2015 9:30 am
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Deal Expert
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May 14, 2008
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Ali proudly stood up…
messupdude wrote:
Feb 21st, 2015 2:59 pm
Not true. Everyone get's put up on the chopping block. Mechanics, Pilots, Manufacturers, Overhaul Facilities and their staff that have signed off on the paperwork, manufacturers for the airplane or parts. They eliminate people one by one till they find the root cause.
And that just goes to show how rare airliner accidents are - even with modern automation.
12 months for condemning rape. 6 months for calling violent thugs "nasty". WTH? Is this IS?
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Jun 7, 2014
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Brampton, ON
Tornado F2 wrote:
Feb 21st, 2015 2:27 pm
Yeah, side mirrors could be dispensed with too. And better yet, AI could be built into the system to audibly alert drivers to dangers they may somehow have still missed. This is technology that I would be pursuing if I was an engineer at a car company.
This already exists.

There are some cars, I know the Dodge Challenger, that make a ding noise if you turn on your turn signal and a car is in the lane beside you. There is also an indicator in the sideview mirror (a triangle that lights up).

There are plenty of vehicles with indicators in the mirrors, I suspect that they also have a noise.

What other dangers are you thinking of?
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[OP]
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Dec 9, 2007
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http://www.thestar.com/business/2015/05 ... roads.html


Self-driving cars have had four accidents on California roads

Google and Delphi said their cars were not at fault in any accidents, which the companies said were minor.

By: Justin Pritchard Associated Press, Published on Mon May 11 2015

LOS ANGELES — Four of the nearly 50 self-driving cars now rolling around California have gotten into accidents since September, when the state began issuing permits for companies to test them on public roads.

Two accidents happened while the cars were in control; in the other two, the person who still must be behind the wheel was driving, a person familiar with the accident reports told The Associated Press.

Three involved Lexus SUVs that Google Inc. outfitted with sensors and computing power in its aggressive effort to develop “autonomous driving,” a goal the tech giant shares with traditional automakers. The parts supplier Delphi Automotive had the other accident with one of its two test vehicles.

Google and Delphi said their cars were not at fault in any accidents, which the companies said were minor.

Since September, any accident must be reported to the state Department of Motor Vehicles. The agency said there have been four, but would not comment about fault or anything else, citing California law that collision reports are confidential.

The person familiar with the accident reports said the cars were in self-driving mode in two of the four accidents, all of which involved speeds of less than 16 km/h. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the reports publicly.

Five other companies have testing permits. In response to questions from the AP, all said they had no accidents. In all, 48 cars are licensed to test on public roads.

The fact that neither the companies nor the state have revealed the accidents troubles some who say the public should have information to monitor the rollout of technology that its own developers acknowledge is imperfect.

John Simpson, a longtime critic of Google as privacy project director of the non-profit Consumer Watchdog, pointed out that the company’s ultimate goal is a car without a steering wheel or pedals. That would mean a person has no power to intervene if a car lost control, making it “even more important that the details of any accidents be made public — so people know what the heck’s going on.”

A chief selling point for self-driving cars is safety. Their cameras, radar and laser sensors give them a far more detailed understanding of their surroundings than humans have. Their reaction times also should be faster. Cars could be programmed to adjust if they sense a crash coming — move a few feet, tighten the seat belts, honk the horn or flash the lights in hope of alerting a distracted driver.

A higher priority so far is teaching them to avoid causing a serious accident that could set public and political acceptance of the technology back years, said Raj Rajkumar, a pioneer of the technology with Carnegie Mellon University.

In the October accident involving Delphi, the front of its 2014 Audi SQ5 was moderately damaged when, as it waited to make a left turn, another car broadsided it, according to an accident report the company shared with AP. The car was not in self-driving mode, Delphi spokeswoman Kristen Kinley said.

Google, which has 23 Lexus SUVs, would not discuss its three accidents in detail.

The accidents are not Google’s first: In a briefing with reporters a year ago, the leader of Google’s self-driving car program acknowledged three others between when the company first sent cars onto public roads several years ago — without the state’s official permission — and May 2014.

In a written statement, Google said that since September, cars driving on streets near its headquarters in Mountain View had “a handful of minor fender-benders, light damage, no injuries, so far caused by human error and inattention.”

Google said that while safety is paramount some accidents can be expected, given that its cars have gone “the equivalent of over 15 years of typical human driving,” or approximately 225,000 kilometres.

The national rate for reported “property-damage-only crashes” is about 0.3 per 160,000 km driven, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

In that context, Google’s three in about 225,000 may seem high. As the company pointed out, however, perhaps 5 million minor accidents are not reported to authorities each year, so it is hard to gauge how typical Google’s experience is.

Three other states have passed laws welcoming self-driving cars onto their roads. Regulators in Nevada, Michigan and Florida said they were not aware of any accidents.

As self-driving cars proliferate, others issues will arise that human drivers have dealt with for decades, notably who’s liable for an accident. Each test car is required to have $5 million insurance.

Interest in accidents will remain high, especially if the self-driving car is at fault, said Bryant Walker Smith, a law professor at the University of South Carolina who has written extensively on the technology.

“For a lot of reasons,” Smith said, “more might be expected of these test vehicles and of the companies that are deploying them and the drivers that are supervising them than we might expect of a 17-year-old driver in a 10-year-old car.”
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My guess: Gov't will still require each driver to have insurance. Insurance companies will then try to determine who is at fault with reference to the rules of the road. I suspect this will be easier than now as these cars must have many cameras to use as evidence. If any insurer suspects it is the negligence of the manufacturer, they will start a subrograted law suit.
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Dec 13, 2011
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Google at fault. they make those driverless cars.
yummie wrote:
Feb 21st, 2015 10:34 am
Is the manufacturer at fault if the software causes an accident, runs a red light, rear ends a vehice etc. I figure since I'm a passenger sitting in the driver seat, I'm not at fault, since I was not driving the car. I don't know what the reasoning,logic, or answer is. If someone can shed some light on this matter...
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Mar 5, 2015
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Ofcourse it's driver's fault. I personally wouldn't let to self drive car in traffic, on open road it's ok.
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Nov 17, 2014
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Don't personally see how it's always the drivers fault. If the car makes a sudden unexpected move what are you supposed to do about that?
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from http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/1 ... ars-crash/

Volvo Will Accept Liability If Their Autonomous Cars Crash

[QUOTE]Volvo Cars President and CEO Håkan Samuelsson announced Thursday in Washington, DC, that the automaker would “accept full liability whenever one if its cars is in autonomous mode,” making Volvo one of the first automakers to solve one of many important legal issues that face autonomous vehicles.

Volvo made the announcement just days after launching a project in Sweden that will see 100 Volvo XC90s with autonomous functionality hitting the roads around Gothenburg in 2017.

During a seminar — “A Future with Self Driving Cars – Is it Safe?” — at House of Sweden in DC hosted by Volvo Cars and the Embassy of Sweden, Samuelsson explained that while the U.S. is the most progressive country when it comes to autonomous vehicles, the legal patchwork created by individual states could hinder that leadership.

“The U.S. risks losing its leading position due to the lack of Federal guidelines for the testing and certification of autonomous vehicles. Europe has suffered to some extent by having a patchwork of rules and regulations. It would be a shame if the US took a similar path to Europe in this crucial area,” Samuelsson stated.

“The absence of one set of rules means car makers cannot conduct credible tests to develop cars that meet all the different guidelines of all 50 US states,” he will say. “If we are to ensure a smooth transition to autonomous mobility then together we must create the necessary framework that will support this.”

As of May 2015, California, Nevada, Michigan, Florida and the District of Columbia have passed legislation to regulate the operation of autonomous cars on public roads, according to Stanford University’s Center for Internet and Society Cyberlaw Wiki.[/QUOTE]
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Apr 26, 2003
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The whole purpose of an autonomous car is so that I wouldn't have to drive to work myself - get in the car and program for work or home, or whatever my destination and then take a nap. That'd be awesome. Get an extra hour of sleep in the mornings commuting to work. Who wouldn't want that? And at the end of the day, when I'm tired from a day of work, I can catch a nap and then be all refreshed to be with the family.
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Aug 30, 2015
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It is just like aviation. Modern jets are run by 100% auto-pilot most of the time, however if something goes wrong, the human pilot is responsible for the safety eventually
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vectorA wrote:
Oct 10th, 2015 11:28 pm
It is just like aviation. Modern jets are run by 100% auto-pilot most of the time, however if something goes wrong, the human pilot is responsible for the safety eventually
is it in every situation tho? lets say the radar sensors are faulty on the plane and the plane is flying autopilot at night pitch dark. then the plane crashed into another plane mid air. (highly unlikely) the pilot and copilot did not have any indication that the other plane was in crash course into them. also, because of the outside condition, neither were able to get a visual of the other plane. they couldnt see the plane nor even if they did, they did not react fast enough. there were not any indication that the radar censors are faulty, no HUD, no LED, no beep warning at all. in this case, would the pilots be at fault?

take this situation and apply to cars. the cars traffic light sensor are faulty. the car gave the driver no indication theres malfunction. at the light, the car is still accelerating. the driver could not possibly stop because there was no time to react and the car crashes. i dont see how the driver would be at fault.
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exrcoupe wrote:
Oct 10th, 2015 11:11 pm
The whole purpose of an autonomous car is so that I wouldn't have to drive to work myself - get in the car and program for work or home, or whatever my destination and then take a nap. That'd be awesome. Get an extra hour of sleep in the mornings commuting to work. Who wouldn't want that? And at the end of the day, when I'm tired from a day of work, I can catch a nap and then be all refreshed to be with the family.
Or that extra hour of sex! We all know of the "High Mile Club!" Will this one be called "The Rolling Mile Club?" ;)

Everyone get your dash cams ready!!!!!
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UrbanPoet wrote:
Oct 11th, 2015 2:51 am
If I ram someone in my car by accident b/c the blind spot detection system failed... is it my fault?
If you don't clear the snow off your car like most don't, then "yes!"

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