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Selling with Property Guys- legal problems??

Deal Addict
Jun 20, 2006
1700 posts
51 upvotes
nousername wrote:
Dec 8th, 2013 6:51 pm
My problem with the RE agents is.. Why do they feel that as a seller I owe them . It's my house . I don't owe them .I get it that they went to school..became an agent and are there to earn living
ya for 6 months or so... and then they take 5% of your most expensive asset !
I don't mind using a RE agent to shop when I'm buying, it's free to me, they can help me negotiate a price (not that I need help but whatever) they email me photos of units and can give me advise (if they actually happen to even know the area I'm looking for) but hey, its a free service to me. sometimes they push their ideas (some don't like answering emails either) but hey... however
when selling, having to pay mine for listing it (which I can do it myself for $99 on those sites) I can take pictures, probably better than them and then I have to follow their schedule and on top pay the buying agent 2.5% more?
this costs $15-$25k !!!

I know for some of you that's 1 month work (not for me) BUT hey they don't even put 40 hrs (1 wk worth)
in the times pre-internet sure... must 've been helpful but now, I know my property better than them
I have selling skills (true lots of ppl don't but I do) I have a camera or 2
posting on the internet is not rocket science, I see a a value on their job, just not 5 digits worth !

lawyers on the other , they did go to school for many years, and read thick books and if they mess up they get sued, but they only charge around $1000, why does a RE agent get 10x that?
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Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2009
1042 posts
212 upvotes
redkid wrote:
Feb 15th, 2014 11:04 pm

lawyers on the other , they did go to school for many years, and read thick books and if they mess up they get sued, but they only charge around $1000, why does a RE agent get 10x that?
lawyer just does some searches and doesn't really spend that much time on it, that's why it is $1000. If problems come up afterwards they might tell you that you will have to get other representation since they don't go to court (came up in previous rfd threads)
Member
Jun 25, 2010
401 posts
71 upvotes
Love2Snack wrote:
Dec 9th, 2013 6:05 pm
Just curious, but how did you get to the $40,000 number? How did you know that a selling agent could not have got you more for your house, or a buying agent could not have got you a better negotiation on the one you bought? Is 40k just 5% of everything you paid?
I don't see selling agent getting me more than my asking price in my area(i got the asking price). The house i bought( my current house)... i negotiated the price $30,000 down from the asking price. Same model, same sq footage..built by the same builder , same asking price listed by an agent on an another street.i tried to work with the selling agent. gave her two choices.
1) I don't have any agent. give me 1 % cashback and you can be my agent in this transaction. i understand she was working for the seller but she was gonna make 4% in commission. her reply was this doesn't happen in this city. market is very hot. i said what if i bring another agent then you'll only get 2.5% ..she was like it doesn't matter.
2)how about then you keep the whole 5% and i'll go 20k less than the asking price. she wanted full asking price as an offer.
So, i just bought the same model on a different street at 30k less asking price.
Newbie
Jun 24, 2010
12 posts
6 upvotes
I have an unusual situation, I want the blog's wise posters to give me advice. My house was listed late last year, winter hit, we took it off the market. We were waiting for spring to sell. Got approached by an agent who has a client wanting to see the house now. Our house is not on the market and agent is legit. They tried to come last year but we had just pulled it from the market. We do not have an agent. What should we do? Take on their agent or sell alone? Remember, we do not need to market or advertise it. We are nervous about selling without a rep, because the buyer has an agent to do what is in THEIR best interest, not ours. Unique problem, but a good one to have! Thanks! :D
Jr. Member
Dec 14, 2013
191 posts
21 upvotes
Toronto
askmom wrote:
Feb 21st, 2014 11:08 pm
Remember, we do not need to market or advertise it. We are nervous about selling without a rep, because the buyer has an agent to do what is in THEIR best interest, not ours. Unique problem, but a good one to have! Thanks! :D
Why wouldn't you need to market or advertise it? and you answered your own question there at the next sentence about best interest.
Banned
User avatar
Nov 2, 2012
2778 posts
465 upvotes
Hamilton
askmom wrote:
Feb 21st, 2014 11:08 pm
I have an unusual situation, I want the blog's wise posters to give me advice. My house was listed late last year, winter hit, we took it off the market. We were waiting for spring to sell. Got approached by an agent who has a client wanting to see the house now. Our house is not on the market and agent is legit. They tried to come last year but we had just pulled it from the market. We do not have an agent. What should we do? Take on their agent or sell alone? Remember, we do not need to market or advertise it. We are nervous about selling without a rep, because the buyer has an agent to do what is in THEIR best interest, not ours. Unique problem, but a good one to have! Thanks! :D
A real estate lawyer can look over any offer you receive (and for very little money...ours handled the offer/negotiation for only $200). Then you would pay normal lawyer fees for closing (same as with an agent).

You do not need to hire this agent (nor is it in your interest to do so, since he is already working for the buyer).

I would allow the agent and his client to view the home.
See what they have to say in terms of price.

See if you can come to an agreement (keeping in mind that you will save the entire listing commission).
The agent will likely expect 2.5% for himself (might be able to negotiate this down to 2.25% or even 2%...but
don't talk about that until after his client views your home).

If you are happy with their offer (i.e. at, or very close to asking price) then why bother re-listing it?

Just be sure to have a lawyer look over everything before you sign.
Again, this can be done for practically pennies ($200 is nothing compared to the $10,000 or $20,000 that
likely would have gone to your listing agent).
Deal Expert
Oct 6, 2005
15981 posts
1884 upvotes
redkid wrote:
Feb 15th, 2014 11:04 pm
I can take pictures, probably better than them and then I have to follow their schedule and on top pay the buying agent 2.5% more?
this costs $15-$25k !!!
It's only because the prices in Toronto are inflated - If a house is 200K - 300K, then 2.5% represents only $5K - $7.5K which is not unreasonable if the house takes a couple months to sell and the agent has to do a lot of showings.

Agents have had it good for the past decade... perhaps too good.
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Nov 2, 2012
2778 posts
465 upvotes
Hamilton
coolspot wrote:
Feb 22nd, 2014 10:02 am
It's only because the prices in Toronto are inflated - If a house is 200K - 300K, then 2.5% represents only $5K - $7.5K which is not unreasonable if the house takes a couple months to sell and the agent has to do a lot of showings.

Agents have had it good for the past decade... perhaps too good.

But the agent doesn't do a lot of showings.

The listing agent may choose to hold an Open House (though many agents
agree this is for THEIR benefit...not the client's...and it is merely a good way to secure new clients).

But the other viewings that happen during the week are handled by the buying agents. So the listing agent is rarely ever present.
Sr. Member
May 18, 2011
530 posts
71 upvotes
NORTH YORK
with 8,822 new listings last month in Toronto and 40,000 agents to fight over them, I am not sure they all have it so good.
Deal Addict
Feb 29, 2008
4482 posts
676 upvotes
Welling agents don't seem to add much value if we're talking about selling a condo in a hot market. I mean. If I were to sell my place, an agent comes in. Takes some pictures, posts a listing on MLS and does a couple open houses..and then collects $5-10K+ and I give another $5-10K to the other agent. I'd rather do the work and save myself that 5% which could be $20K+. Some agents workhard for you but a lot are complete bums and don't do anything for you especially if it's not a pricey property.
Sr. Member
May 18, 2011
530 posts
71 upvotes
NORTH YORK
Agreed, but the people always think they are just going to save 5% off the top and that rarely is the case. The people coming in that see you are not using an agent will want 2.5-5% off the top because of that. Don't think you will save yourself 5%. You might, but I think the statistics say otherwise. Sometimes a popular agent who works that building a lot may have clients that really want to get in there and may pay a premium to bid on it. Just saying its not always cut and dry like instant 5%.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 15, 2005
5154 posts
685 upvotes
Rroo wrote:
Oct 13th, 2010 6:44 am
We thought we would sell our home using Property Guys as many people in our area do but recently when mentioning this to someone I was warned that often legal problems can come up (even years after the sale) due to problems with the house that you would be protected from if using real estate agent. Does anyone have any insight into this?

Thanks!
Realtors provide no legal protection to anything you do.

They put disclaimers on all of their work that they are not lawyers and even when they measure rooms it isn't official.

Just more PR from the big bad real estate agencies trying to keep you stuck with them.
Deal Addict
Feb 29, 2008
4482 posts
676 upvotes
Love2Snack wrote:
Feb 25th, 2014 8:33 am
Agreed, but the people always think they are just going to save 5% off the top and that rarely is the case. The people coming in that see you are not using an agent will want 2.5-5% off the top because of that. Don't think you will save yourself 5%. You might, but I think the statistics say otherwise. Sometimes a popular agent who works that building a lot may have clients that really want to get in there and may pay a premium to bid on it. Just saying its not always cut and dry like instant 5%.
good point.
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Nov 2, 2012
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Love2Snack wrote:
Feb 25th, 2014 8:33 am
Agreed, but the people always think they are just going to save 5% off the top and that rarely is the case. The people coming in that see you are not using an agent will want 2.5-5% off the top because of that. Don't think you will save yourself 5%. You might, but I think the statistics say otherwise. Sometimes a popular agent who works that building a lot may have clients that really want to get in there and may pay a premium to bid on it. Just saying its not always cut and dry like instant 5%.
Seriously? So if an agent has clients who really want to get into a particular condo, you think that they won't be interested
in buying a FSBO condo in the building they so desperately love? You don't think they would be willing to pay whatever
amount they would have paid if an agent had been selling the property?

If I want to buy in a particular condo, I am going to check out every listing that pops up.
I'm not going to care if it's being sold by a licensed agent, the owner or a cat.
Deal Addict
User avatar
May 6, 2010
2124 posts
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Markham
nousername wrote:
Feb 16th, 2014 5:18 pm
I don't see selling agent getting me more than my asking price in my area(i got the asking price). The house i bought( my current house)... i negotiated the price $30,000 down from the asking price. Same model, same sq footage..built by the same builder , same asking price listed by an agent on an another street.i tried to work with the selling agent. gave her two choices.
1) I don't have any agent. give me 1 % cashback and you can be my agent in this transaction. i understand she was working for the seller but she was gonna make 4% in commission. her reply was this doesn't happen in this city. market is very hot. i said what if i bring another agent then you'll only get 2.5% ..she was like it doesn't matter.
2)how about then you keep the whole 5% and i'll go 20k less than the asking price. she wanted full asking price as an offer.
So, i just bought the same model on a different street at 30k less asking price.
Maybe you should have made this offer: win, same, same offer.

a) The agent gets to keep her commission, the seller agent % of the full asking price.
b) You put in the offer of asking price less 2.5% buyer's agent's commision
c) The seller made up the difference.

Assuming 500K and 2.5% seller/buyer's agent commission. The buyer expected to get a net of $475,000.

Seller agent's commision is 12,500.
House sold at 487,500, seller is still net of $475,000.

You win, seller agent and seller are getting what their expected revenue.

[Added]

Interesting thing to note that if the sold price went up/down by 2.5%.

The agent's commission, 2.5% of $487,500, is 12,187.50. It's only $300 less.
The agent's commission, 2.5% of $ 512,500, is 12,812.50. It's only $300 more.

The selling agent could work really hard to earn an extra $300 or just make a quick sale and earn $12,000 commision.

The buying agent has an inverse motivation to his agent. The harder he works for a lower price, the lower his commision!!!!

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