Home & Garden

Selling with Property Guys- legal problems??

Sr. Member
May 18, 2011
527 posts
70 upvotes
NORTH YORK
I appreciate your hate of Realtor's JaneDil however I think some of this hate is causing you to miss a few important points that people write here about FSBO. Many buyers leave it up to their agent to find them a place and send them all the new listings. Some FSBO listings are not even on the MLS and they would have no way of knowing. Also, any client that signs a BRA with an agent signs that they agree to pay a commission even if one is not offered by a vendor. Then the agent is obligated(legally) to show any FSBO's. They don't mind doing this because they know they will get paid either way. If you read what I wrote carefully I am only saying that it is not as simple as just '5% off the top' of savings. There are many more things involved that make it very hard to calculate actual savings or losses and each case/market/house is different.
Member
Nov 21, 2007
257 posts
14 upvotes
Pictou County, NS
Love2Snack wrote:
Feb 26th, 2014 8:51 am
I appreciate your hate of Realtor's JaneDil however I think some of this hate is causing you to miss a few important points that people write here about FSBO. Many buyers leave it up to their agent to find them a place and send them all the new listings. Some FSBO listings are not even on the MLS and they would have no way of knowing. Also, any client that signs a BRA with an agent signs that they agree to pay a commission even if one is not offered by a vendor. Then the agent is obligated(legally) to show any FSBO's. They don't mind doing this because they know they will get paid either way. If you read what I wrote carefully I am only saying that it is not as simple as just '5% off the top' of savings. There are many more things involved that make it very hard to calculate actual savings or losses and each case/market/house is different.
I wanted to point out that some FSBO listings are on MLS and Viewpoint. The Property Guys website offers that as an add on. To me it will be worth the extra cost.(roughly an extra $400 in my area)
Newbie
Jul 9, 2014
2 posts
2 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Hi, just piping up to help any future sellers considering propertyguys.com. We are currently in the process of selling our Toronto home through them. I have the following comments to make:
Pros: cheap, lots of handholding over the phone at the beginning and whenever else you need it, provides a significantly discounted law firm, property guys for sale sign looks much better than a crappy black and orange sign from Home Depot. Their call centre takes all inquiries so you don't have to have your phone ringing at all hours of the day and night. They send you an email so you can follow up.

Cons: the signs they provide for your open house are little round things on prongs that do not say open house on them (as opposed to the nice visible sandwich boards realtors use), you have to write it in by hand--not as nice-looking--first impressions count! They say they list you on MLS, but what you get is a little placeholder page there, and clients must click "agree to terms" and then they will be jumped over to your listing on the property guys website. Some buyers may be put off by this. We still got over 1500 views in 3 weeks on the market, so you need to decide if you're ok with this setup. Also, one great thing about realtors is that they will advocate for you to, say, tell the buyers when they're asking for too much and not to piss you off. They will also drive the contract from one house to the other on offer night to get the deal done, and will make sure the "review by lawyer" clause gets crossed out so there are no impediments to a quick signoff. Because we did not have this, we have been subject to countless additions and demands and re-inspections and repair conditions for stuff we didn't even see coming-- we'd had our home pre-inspected by Carson Dunlop and were blindsided nonetheless. After 3 weeks, we are emotionally exhausted. Tears have been shed, unaccustomed alcohol has been consumed, children have been grumped at. You need a strong stomach and nerves of steel to get in the arena and duke it all out directly yourself. Especially if you are a first-timer at this like us. On the upside, we received a good offer just 20K under asking from a private buyer, so we don't have to pay any commission whatsoever. We calculated that a buyer with an agent would have had to offer $22k higher on our house in order to be competitive with the private offer. I hope this info helps someone in deciding if a private sale is for them!
Newbie
Nov 6, 2014
2 posts
1 upvote
Calgary, AB
Im not very impressed with this buisness. I recently thought about potentially selling my home and using the property guys in cochrane alberta. They came to my house and used what I wiukd describe as sleezy used car salesman tactics, I wasnt impressed at all. And was pretty much oushed into signing an advertiximg agreement that I was told I could get out of at anytime with no fee as long as they didnt do anything. I immedatky decided to not use their servive and have had nothing but issues with them. Save your time and money and avoid these guys like the plauge.
Deal Addict
Mar 15, 2005
4929 posts
475 upvotes
Love2Snack wrote:
Feb 24th, 2014 3:22 pm
with 8,822 new listings last month in Toronto and 40,000 agents to fight over them, I am not sure they all have it so good.
Average sale price in Toronto hovering near 600k, of which they would get 2.5%

That means each house sold is worth about $15k. If you only sold 6 houses in a year that is still 90k

Pretty sure realtors are doing just fine out there if they have half a brain and a bit of hustle.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 11, 2004
4626 posts
298 upvotes
Victoria
brunes wrote:
Oct 13th, 2010 7:33 am
The whole root of these problems is the property disclosure statement.

If someone buying your house makes you sign a disclosure document, put anything and everything that has ever happened to the house in it. Anything that goes wrong that was not in this statement and could be traced back to your ownership, they could call you on.

The ideal situation is to get the buyer to agree to simply doing a home inspection, and having no disclosure statement at all. It is certainly not required.

Absent of a property disclosure statement, buying a house is like buying anything else, buyer beware, and you are not responsible for it.

Oh - and there is nothing an agent can do to protect you from any of this, whoever said that has no idea what they are talking about.
I'm pretty sure in BC those property disclosure statements are about protecting realtors and nothing else. They are not enforceable in any way in court.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Mar 26, 2009
625 posts
93 upvotes
Hamilton
Services like Property Guys and ComFree are great and save thousands of dollars. A lawyer does all the paperwork so there are no legal problems. Only bad agents try to spread this rumour.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 15, 2009
1191 posts
109 upvotes
Stoney Creek
Bottom line is you either pay somebody to increase exposure and organize clients etc...or you go on the cheap pay these types of business and do a lot of the leg work yourself. It's a mute argument because people do not account for cost of their time.

Either way you will sell your home if you have exposure and price it right. If you have not received any offers in a month you priced it wrong. If you take it off the market then back on, back and forth...you are severely crippling your chances of getting what you are asking for. Sometimes that's where an experienced realtor can save you the cost of their services plus more.
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.”
Deal Addict
May 31, 2009
2623 posts
155 upvotes
hondanation09 wrote:
Nov 8th, 2014 7:53 am
Bottom line is you either pay somebody to increase exposure and organize clients etc...or you go on the cheap pay these types of business and do a lot of the leg work yourself. It's a mute argument because people do not account for cost of their time.

Either way you will sell your home if you have exposure and price it right. If you have not received any offers in a month you priced it wrong. If you take it off the market then back on, back and forth...you are severely crippling your chances of getting what you are asking for. Sometimes that's where an experienced realtor can save you the cost of their services plus more.
+1

If you have a timeframe of 2 months to sell your house (+ 90 days for close), then I'd say sell it yourself with Property Guys or FSBO. You'll save yourself about 4.5% on the closing price. Typical commission = 5% (but you only offer Buyers agent 0.5% take it or leave it, saving 2% on them, and 2.5% for representing yourself). If the buyers like your house, they will push their agent to close the deal, regardless of the commission.

If you have a tight timeframe, then forego that 4.5%, and use an agent. Up to you who wants to do the legwork..as stated above.
Newbie
Dec 14, 2014
3 posts
Montague, PE
Hi I am a Realtor, Licensed. This is for people who are looking to buy or sell, Did you know that Property guys uses the tools that we have developed through paying fees to boards that train us, govern us and make sure that we are up to date on everything that is needed for your sale to be perfect. Know even though Property guys does not belong to any Real Estate board as they are a marketing company, please be advised that they actually take your money and have a broker apply your listing in OUR MLS system, which we pay for through fees monthly, Then they tell you to come to us and ask us to sell your property, for ONE DOLLAR.. if I made thirty sales then I think I made thirty dollars? It rings to mind Napoleon Dynamite and his comment," hey that's like a dollar an hour" , they take your money upfront, unlike us who work diligently to sell your property without pay, until the job is DONE! We spend money on fees every month, attend training courses and maintain offices, work on weekends so you can enjoy your time off with your family. They don't tell you the stats of how many properties don't actually sell on mls, but going to a licensed Realtor will give you the FACTS on sales in your area. An appraisal is great, but how many listings do you see that say Selling for Appraisal price or below appraisal price its all about the market and it changes, all the time due to economics in the area, I have helped a lot of customers that were FSBO, 90 percent of sales are with a Realtor, want the facts ask your realtor to bring up the stats in his area, and that two week course follows shadowing an experienced Realtor, I spent two years shadowing one before I took my course,( continuing after) our education does not end with that course, it includes taking courses on PCDS, liabilities, how to market effectively, how to find buyers, how to price properly, how to stage a home for sale, I ask what training did you take before you ventured into selling packages to people upfront? Most of us also have obtained degrees and are educated, mostly at university level, and have transferrable skills, from other professions. I am PROUD to be part of a noble professional body, which I will say has a code of ethics, we don't speak badly of one another and we all work together to get the job done. So when you list with a Realtor you actually have a lot of people showing and trying to sell your home You are not LICSENCED by the ATTORNEY GENERAL To sell property as we are, and we would never tell a lawyer to do our job. We make sure that PCDS is filled out to PROTECT THE BUYER. We are covered by errors and omission insurance, do you carry that ? What courses or education do you have that can allow you, or think that you have the knowledge to attack a group of professionals that care and work hard. THE FORMS that you say offer less protection than a t shirt In a hurricane is not true, it is a legal document that stands its ground in court.. ALL THE TIME. I would also ask people to look at the disclosure on the bottom of property guys and see what they do not do for you. ITS all there in black and white, in regards to the purchaser finding there own buyer, we are contracted to work for the individual that list their home with us. We invest time have an office, staff, signs, marketing costs. I dare say that your comments are mud slinging and we all know you cant find firm ground when slinging mud. In fact as well, it is not our job to inspect the home, it is the owners responsibility to tell of all things that have occurred. Even Insurance Claims. Keep in mind too the buyer is paying for the home, its not free for them either, I find it ironic that the property guys can only help the "selling side" not the buying, perhaps you should ask them why they are only allowed to do this?
Folks all in all I work 60-70 hours a week, its almost midnight and have just finished another 12 hour day. If you want professional licensed representation than yes call a Realtor, if you want to pay thousands for a spot on MLS with no guarantee that it will sell then by all means please hand over a couple of thousand dollars or more to them and then wait for one of us to call. Those are facts. make sure that you speak with both property guys and a Realtor and you will see we are worth our weight in gold!
Newbie
Dec 14, 2014
3 posts
Montague, PE
Your Awesome...Love your response. Public should be educated on how hard we work and the constant education we do.. always upgrading. I hope that these marketing companies can soon be thrown off the MLS as they tell all customers that are looking at listing that we are at six percent. Nonsense, and as noted before ninety percent of buyers are going through a Realtor like you or me. I dare say I don't have time to book showings, drive clients around and also try and negotiate with a FSBO for my pay. I also don't like dealing with someone who is not insured and has not been properly informed about the liabilities. I end up doing the job of both and then I get into a possible dual agency scene which as a FSBO they don't understand the liability or how much work it is. All in all I am SOOO Proud to be part of a great professional body of hard working individuals that work hard for the public.
Jr. Member
User avatar
May 18, 2008
184 posts
67 upvotes
Victoria
I am a REALTOR®, I also happen to have masters degree from UBC. Let me see, I had 5 years of post secondary education before I did my masters degree. My degree consisteted of 24 courses and writting a 60 page research paper at the end. To get my real estate licence I did one course over the course of a few weekends and that one course was easier than the majority of 24 courses I had to do to obtain my masters.

I am a REALTOR®, I love my job as a REALTOR® but please let's not mislead the public on our education, etc.

BTW, mere postings aka flat fee listings actually work. I would know this because I am involved in 80 plus sales every year and I offer my clients both full service listings and mere postings.
Marko Juras, REALTOR® & Associate Broker @ Fair Realty, Victoria, BC - "I believe in a competitive marketplace and real estate commissions should be no exception."
Sr. Member
Dec 27, 2013
878 posts
136 upvotes
Woodbridge
Bottom line, everybody puts their own interests first. Services like Property Guys will do whatever they can to get your business. Realtors will do whatever they can to get your business. At the end of the day I think the best advice comes from people who have actually gone through the process. Look up Property Guys listings for recent sales and reach out to those people and kindly ask if they wouldn't mind giving you an idea of what their experience was like. Obviously Realtor's will cost you more, but it's naive to think that they provide no value for that money. It's up to you to figure out if you can live with the extra hassles of selling on your own or whether the service of a Realtor is worth 4-6% of your sale price.
Deal Addict
Dec 18, 2006
1855 posts
304 upvotes
Captain_Ron5 wrote:
Dec 18th, 2014 2:02 pm
I am a REALTOR®, I also happen to have masters degree from UBC. Let me see, I had 5 years of post secondary education before I did my masters degree. My degree consisteted of 24 courses and writting a 60 page research paper at the end. To get my real estate licence I did one course over the course of a few weekends and that one course was easier than the majority of 24 courses I had to do to obtain my masters.

I am a REALTOR®, I love my job as a REALTOR® but please let's not mislead the public on our education, etc.

BTW, mere postings aka flat fee listings actually work. I would know this because I am involved in 80 plus sales every year and I offer my clients both full service listings and mere postings.
+1000000000
Jay R
CENTURY 21 Titans Realty Inc. Brokerage
RE4L - Real Estate 4 Less
Deal Addict
Mar 15, 2005
4929 posts
475 upvotes
goldenhousegirl wrote:
Dec 15th, 2014 11:17 pm
Hi I am a Realtor, Licensed. This is for people who are looking to buy or sell, Did you know that Property guys uses the tools that we have developed through paying fees to boards that train us, govern us and make sure that we are up to date on everything that is needed for your sale to be perfect. Know even though Property guys does not belong to any Real Estate board as they are a marketing company, please be advised that they actually take your money and have a broker apply your listing in OUR MLS system, which we pay for through fees monthly, Then they tell you to come to us and ask us to sell your property, for ONE DOLLAR.. if I made thirty sales then I think I made thirty dollars? It rings to mind Napoleon Dynamite and his comment," hey that's like a dollar an hour" , they take your money upfront, unlike us who work diligently to sell your property without pay, until the job is DONE! We spend money on fees every month, attend training courses and maintain offices, work on weekends so you can enjoy your time off with your family. They don't tell you the stats of how many properties don't actually sell on mls, but going to a licensed Realtor will give you the FACTS on sales in your area. An appraisal is great, but how many listings do you see that say Selling for Appraisal price or below appraisal price its all about the market and it changes, all the time due to economics in the area, I have helped a lot of customers that were FSBO, 90 percent of sales are with a Realtor, want the facts ask your realtor to bring up the stats in his area, and that two week course follows shadowing an experienced Realtor, I spent two years shadowing one before I took my course,( continuing after) our education does not end with that course, it includes taking courses on PCDS, liabilities, how to market effectively, how to find buyers, how to price properly, how to stage a home for sale, I ask what training did you take before you ventured into selling packages to people upfront? Most of us also have obtained degrees and are educated, mostly at university level, and have transferrable skills, from other professions. I am PROUD to be part of a noble professional body, which I will say has a code of ethics, we don't speak badly of one another and we all work together to get the job done. So when you list with a Realtor you actually have a lot of people showing and trying to sell your home You are not LICSENCED by the ATTORNEY GENERAL To sell property as we are, and we would never tell a lawyer to do our job. We make sure that PCDS is filled out to PROTECT THE BUYER. We are covered by errors and omission insurance, do you carry that ? What courses or education do you have that can allow you, or think that you have the knowledge to attack a group of professionals that care and work hard. THE FORMS that you say offer less protection than a t shirt In a hurricane is not true, it is a legal document that stands its ground in court.. ALL THE TIME. I would also ask people to look at the disclosure on the bottom of property guys and see what they do not do for you. ITS all there in black and white, in regards to the purchaser finding there own buyer, we are contracted to work for the individual that list their home with us. We invest time have an office, staff, signs, marketing costs. I dare say that your comments are mud slinging and we all know you cant find firm ground when slinging mud. In fact as well, it is not our job to inspect the home, it is the owners responsibility to tell of all things that have occurred. Even Insurance Claims. Keep in mind too the buyer is paying for the home, its not free for them either, I find it ironic that the property guys can only help the "selling side" not the buying, perhaps you should ask them why they are only allowed to do this?
Folks all in all I work 60-70 hours a week, its almost midnight and have just finished another 12 hour day. If you want professional licensed representation than yes call a Realtor, if you want to pay thousands for a spot on MLS with no guarantee that it will sell then by all means please hand over a couple of thousand dollars or more to them and then wait for one of us to call. Those are facts. make sure that you speak with both property guys and a Realtor and you will see we are worth our weight in gold!
First off: Paragraphs, do you use them?

Next up this is the biggest scam of real estate in Canada. Having dealt with RE down in the states it is a dream compared to the monopoly they have going on up here. In this US it is freely accessible information to find out how much a house has ever sold for, what houses on the street sold for (and when), what insurance rates were for all the homes etc. I dream of a day when consumers can freely look up information themselves instead of being forced to beg a realtor for the information.

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