Automotive

Unhaggle not refunding the fees: Trade-in failed

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mikeymike1 wrote: Unfortunately John thats the cycle of the used car market. Non disclosure from seller/trade-in, then resold to next, then the retailer/dealer gets blamed for crap the original buyer never disclosed.
Safety certification only ascertains road worthy safety points. Not OP's issues as disclosed on this thread.
well thats why you ask for the maintenance history, just like what you would do anyways in a private sale

if you see much more than just oil and filter and fluid changes, that's a red flag
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Well, a lot of people have been harsh on me, some others are being more kind.

At the end of the day, I am a really RFD user and listens to RFD advices.

A lot of people have talked about the lemon issue, and some even complained that I whine too much and maybe it's not a lemon. Well, you have to know I am a very perfectionnist guy and doesn't usually leave anything behind. That being said, if I decide to spend money for a premium car, I expect a perfect shape. So yeah, a little scratch will DRIVE ME NUTS. I am a car fanatic. Well as far as I can say, the car is working. Dealerships have took a look of the car, and found nothing, they even drove it. So the car is problem free? Yes accoding to them. As for me, it's not problem free. What is it so hard to understand??? Again, those people people who keep saying and blaming me for the car value because it is a lemon, where were you when I needed advices the most??? There are some people in this thread who understand what I am going through, and those people helped me, and eventually advice me to trade in for a new car. Here I am. I have a lot of respect for them, and they are helpful without judging.

So, are you saying I should keep the lemon? I mean, if you all do, I will just keep it and save me some hassle to buy a new car. The car works, isn't that the most important thing? Well, I wouldn't be whining if I bought a non reliable brand and have problems. But Acura was known to be a very reliable car, so I became noisy. I would have done the same with a Lexus. Do I overexagerate about my car problems? Maybe? Well it is easy, if my car doesn't start after a short trip, I will just press the accelerator pedal and PROBLEM SOLVED. I have no more problems! Because for now, that's the only problem and maybe some high pitch noise than happens ramdomly. Well my car dealership was clear: Computer scanned nothing, car is starting like a brand new car. Above all, I will save 25k and can invest into something MORE USEFUL than a car who depreciates the moment it delivers.

As for the lemon again, kennyt18, chroma_cg, please show some respect. The last service I complained about my car was at Acura metropolitain: and I asked the service manager about a possible trade in. I asked him the fact I come often to the dealership for replair: Will my car have a lower value? HE SAID NO, ON THE CONTRARY, IT SHOWS YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR CAR THAN OTHERS, IT SHOULD EVEN BE A BETTER VALUE. So in my head, "oh well my lemon" could have a good price for a trade in. That is why I started looking for other cars. And according to what you say, it is a RED FLAG. Well somehow, SOMEONE IS LYING: YOU OR THE DEALERSHIP SERVICE GUY? Ok, well to be more specific, his name is ALEX PIANO. Devil's advocate = me??? Hold on dude, you blame me for learning something from a dealership service guy? How about you just tell me respectfully That dealership guy was lying to me? OK, then lemon. Well guess what? Again from Acura metropolitain, MIKE Goffredo, is the DIRECTOR OF SERVICE. In the case you didn't real my complains about the car, MIKE DID use my car for 1 week and drove it personally to see the problems. He plugged the computer at every start. What happened? He said the car has no problem at all. The "blackbox" or whatever you call it is clear and has no errors. He said he can certify it. He also said he asks an engeneer from Audi Canada to inspect, and nothing was found. Either way, someone has to lie: me or him? Well who really tells the dealership that your car has problems in a trade in???? I am sure 90% of the people in this world will not say there are problems, and 99% of the people in this world wil quote the dealership words that there are no problems found.

And no, I have not tried to use unhaggle to lower the fees. Again, what I did was to go to dealer and ask if they can match the price but give me a better trade in value. I am not using unhaggle to lower fees, I just want what is best for the trade in.

------------------------

Let's go back to the subject. Unhaggle said they refunded me the deposit today. Other searches are still in dispute, but they are firm they will not refund it. First, you say because I pay a deposit, so I can't get a refund. Now, even if I didn't do a deposit, I am not eligible to get a refund. I am looking for advice here.
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cba123 wrote: OP, did you know that the $20k trade-in value also reduces the QST/GST paid on the new car, so getting $20k trade-in value is the same as getting $22,995 cash in your hand from a private sale; however, a $22,995 private sale would end up costing the buyer $26,438.50 after paying QST/GST when registering the car.

Example: No Trade-In. Sell car privately for $22,995.
New Car price $30,000.00
QST/GST: 4,492.50
Total: $34,492.50
Payment would be $22,995 from private sale, and another $11,497.50 out-of-pocket.

Example: With Trade-In of $20,000
New Car price $30,000.00
less trade-in: -$20,000.00
QST/GST (on 10,000): 1,497.50
Total: $11,497.50

You would have to sell the car privately for $24,144.75 to get the same as $21,000 trade-in value. Most private buyers would want to see the service history on the car before buying, and I don't think too many will like the amount of repairs that were needed on this car. To certify a car, it simply has to be road-worthy at the time; it does not provide a warranty or guarantee that parts will not break after the sale is made.
Actually yes I know about that.

However, may I add a correction.

I got told by a dealer (yesterday) and I am quoting him: Buyer in private only has to pay the PST NOT THE GST. Therefore according to the numbers, the buyer will end up paying 25294$ (10%) instead of 26438.50$ (15%). Only 1 taxe is paid.

Now, whether the dealer said the truth or not, I don't know. Anyone can confirm?
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Away from RFD idiots
but there's no pst gst anymore. we have hst
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mathiewannabe wrote: but there's no pst gst anymore. we have hst
srry QST for qc*
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Why do you feel entitled to a deposit? They found you a dealer
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phatsi wrote: Why do you feel entitled to a deposit? They found you a dealer
they required it to show you're serious or something like that
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I have to say, this is a late-comer being nearly November and all, but this is definitely a candidate for facepalm thread of the year...at least in this subforum.

Lemme get this straight OP...

You have a car that you really don't like, is a lemon, full of issues, etc. and you see it has a trade-in value "in the book" of $20-22k. You decide to buy a new car and the dealer (dealers being notorious for offering low-ball amounts at trade-in and not giving even book value) offers you a full $20k for your car. This amount is not only within the book value (something you usually don't get at stealers), but you're getting that amount for a car you know is crap and a car you really want to get rid of.

So what do you do? You refuse! And then...then you have the audacity to come on here and complain about not getting your $100 back from Unhaggle due to your own shens/stupidity? LMAO. If it were me (or any other sensible person) they'd have taken that $20k and ran, ran as far away from the lemon Acura you have and never looked back. Instead you demanded more money for a car that you know isn't worth it and you're still stuck with it.

Like I said, total :facepalm:
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ES_Revenge wrote: I have to say, this is a late-comer being nearly November and all, but this is definitely a candidate for facepalm thread of the year...at least in this subforum.

Lemme get this straight OP...

You have a car that you really don't like, is a lemon, full of issues, etc. and you see it has a trade-in value "in the book" of $20-22k. You decide to buy a new car and the dealer (dealers being notorious for offering low-ball amounts at trade-in and not giving even book value) offers you a full $20k for your car. This amount is not only within the book value (something you usually don't get at stealers), but you're getting that amount for a car you know is crap and a car you really want to get rid of.

So what do you do? You refuse! And then...then you have the audacity to come on here and complain about not getting your $100 back from Unhaggle due to your own shens/stupidity? LMAO. If it were me (or any other sensible person) they'd have taken that $20k and ran, ran as far away from the lemon Acura you have and never looked back. Instead you demanded more money for a car that you know isn't worth it and you're still stuck with it.

Like I said, total :facepalm:
Haha, you read my mind. Saved me the trouble of summarizing everything.

+1
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ES_Revenge wrote: I have to say, this is a late-comer being nearly November and all, but this is definitely a candidate for facepalm thread of the year...at least in this subforum.

Lemme get this straight OP...

You have a car that you really don't like, is a lemon, full of issues, etc. and you see it has a trade-in value "in the book" of $20-22k. You decide to buy a new car and the dealer (dealers being notorious for offering low-ball amounts at trade-in and not giving even book value) offers you a full $20k for your car. This amount is not only within the book value (something you usually don't get at stealers), but you're getting that amount for a car you know is crap and a car you really want to get rid of.

So what do you do? You refuse! And then...then you have the audacity to come on here and complain about not getting your $100 back from Unhaggle due to your own shens/stupidity? LMAO. If it were me (or any other sensible person) they'd have taken that $20k and ran, ran as far away from the lemon Acura you have and never looked back. Instead you demanded more money for a car that you know isn't worth it and you're still stuck with it.

Like I said, total :facepalm:
I am happy you gave your opinion on this.

Anyways it's not stupid because of the trade in factor. I followed the unhaggle guideline before doing the research.

So I was well informed before doing a search so I was expecting 21k. But my ex seller says it is 20-23k and a rfd guy says it's 22k and another redflagdeals says the cbb is underrated.

So when I heard 20k, I was in shock. Now less after discussion with you guys, but I didn't expect that at all.

But the car is fine most of the time. I know it's a lemon, but I can live with it. It isn't as bad as it sounds, but the not starting after a few trip, well maybe it's normal as said by the dealer.

Now what if my car wasn't a lemon, could I have getting it more? Imo, I don't think so.
"Every marathon you run, your heart scars and you will die faster. If you think running a marathon is fitness, then you know NOTHING ABOUT HEALTH & FITNESS."
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Anyways as someone said in this forum, what If I trade in and my new a4 ends up being a lemon too???

Lol and sad, rfd will hear of me again.

Would u keep ur car until the 4 years warranty done or trade in now as u were me and waste another 20k?

With all those money, I could have gone myself with 3 corolla lol. Just saying..
"Every marathon you run, your heart scars and you will die faster. If you think running a marathon is fitness, then you know NOTHING ABOUT HEALTH & FITNESS."
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I own a 2011 Mercedes C350 with 65k & it's been reliable enough for a European car.

How do you have so many issues with your Acura?

Personally I think this comes down to the owner.
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Some English question with terms..

What does reserve a car means?

Can you reserve a car such as put a deposit and not going through the deal?

Or does reserving a car means you HAVE to buy it or you already bought it.
"Every marathon you run, your heart scars and you will die faster. If you think running a marathon is fitness, then you know NOTHING ABOUT HEALTH & FITNESS."
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L4cky wrote: I am happy you gave your opinion on this.

Anyways it's not stupid because of the trade in factor. I followed the unhaggle guideline before doing the research.

So I was well informed before doing a search so I was expecting 21k. But my ex seller says it is 20-23k and a rfd guy says it's 22k and another redflagdeals says the cbb is underrated.

So when I heard 20k, I was in shock. Now less after discussion with you guys, but I didn't expect that at all.

But the car is fine most of the time. I know it's a lemon, but I can live with it. It isn't as bad as it sounds, but the not starting after a few trip, well maybe it's normal as said by the dealer.

Now what if my car wasn't a lemon, could I have getting it more? Imo, I don't think so.
I think you're using Unhaggle's guidelines as gospel. As with any information you find on the internet, it's a baseline and a benchmark, it's not a guarantee on what price you *must* get.
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L4cky wrote: Well, a lot of people have been harsh on me, some others are being more kind.

At the end of the day, I am a really RFD user and listens to RFD advices.

A lot of people have talked about the lemon issue, and some even complained that I whine too much and maybe it's not a lemon. Well, you have to know I am a very perfectionnist guy and doesn't usually leave anything behind. That being said, if I decide to spend money for a premium car, I expect a perfect shape. So yeah, a little scratch will DRIVE ME NUTS. I am a car fanatic. Well as far as I can say, the car is working. Dealerships have took a look of the car, and found nothing, they even drove it. So the car is problem free? Yes accoding to them. As for me, it's not problem free. What is it so hard to understand??? Again, those people people who keep saying and blaming me for the car value because it is a lemon, where were you when I needed advices the most??? There are some people in this thread who understand what I am going through, and those people helped me, and eventually advice me to trade in for a new car. Here I am. I have a lot of respect for them, and they are helpful without judging.

So, are you saying I should keep the lemon? I mean, if you all do, I will just keep it and save me some hassle to buy a new car. The car works, isn't that the most important thing? Well, I wouldn't be whining if I bought a non reliable brand and have problems. But Acura was known to be a very reliable car, so I became noisy. I would have done the same with a Lexus. Do I overexagerate about my car problems? Maybe? Well it is easy, if my car doesn't start after a short trip, I will just press the accelerator pedal and PROBLEM SOLVED. I have no more problems! Because for now, that's the only problem and maybe some high pitch noise than happens ramdomly. Well my car dealership was clear: Computer scanned nothing, car is starting like a brand new car. Above all, I will save 25k and can invest into something MORE USEFUL than a car who depreciates the moment it delivers.

As for the lemon again, kennyt18, chroma_cg, please show some respect. The last service I complained about my car was at Acura metropolitain: and I asked the service manager about a possible trade in. I asked him the fact I come often to the dealership for replair: Will my car have a lower value? HE SAID NO, ON THE CONTRARY, IT SHOWS YOU CARE MORE ABOUT YOUR CAR THAN OTHERS, IT SHOULD EVEN BE A BETTER VALUE. So in my head, "oh well my lemon" could have a good price for a trade in. That is why I started looking for other cars. And according to what you say, it is a RED FLAG. Well somehow, SOMEONE IS LYING: YOU OR THE DEALERSHIP SERVICE GUY? Ok, well to be more specific, his name is ALEX PIANO. Devil's advocate = me??? Hold on dude, you blame me for learning something from a dealership service guy? How about you just tell me respectfully That dealership guy was lying to me? OK, then lemon. Well guess what? Again from Acura metropolitain, MIKE Goffredo, is the DIRECTOR OF SERVICE. In the case you didn't real my complains about the car, MIKE DID use my car for 1 week and drove it personally to see the problems. He plugged the computer at every start. What happened? He said the car has no problem at all. The "blackbox" or whatever you call it is clear and has no errors. He said he can certify it. He also said he asks an engeneer from Audi Canada to inspect, and nothing was found. Either way, someone has to lie: me or him? Well who really tells the dealership that your car has problems in a trade in???? I am sure 90% of the people in this world will not say there are problems, and 99% of the people in this world wil quote the dealership words that there are no problems found.

And no, I have not tried to use unhaggle to lower the fees. Again, what I did was to go to dealer and ask if they can match the price but give me a better trade in value. I am not using unhaggle to lower fees, I just want what is best for the trade in.

------------------------

Let's go back to the subject. Unhaggle said they refunded me the deposit today. Other searches are still in dispute, but they are firm they will not refund it. First, you say because I pay a deposit, so I can't get a refund. Now, even if I didn't do a deposit, I am not eligible to get a refund. I am looking for advice here.
you call yourself a car fanatic and perfectionist, yet you do not know how things work in the process of buying a car and you are way too optimistic with things. as for the lemon, nobody is against you trading in the lemon, but all we are saying is that expect the worst in the tradein value range. given your car's frequent repair history. if you had traded in your lemon at 20k with the audi, most of us, myself included, will probably say congrats for getting rid of the lemon. but instead, you whine about a $1000 difference for your less-than-perfect car, and subsequently whine about unhaggle for giving you a fair price range.

your car is less than perfect, expect a less than perfect trade-in value. not only that, nobody can appraise your car unless they can see the car in person. this includes unhaggle. have they seen the car? this is why they can only give you a range or guideline. they did not give you a trade-in guarantee at the value YOU want right? who in their right mind would do such a thing without even seeing the car themselves?

what we have said here, as well as your service guy, is simply AN OPINION, nothing more and nothing less. nobody is lying here, we are all simply expressing our opinions based on the information we are given. your service guy feels that a frequent repair history means u take care of the car, but i feel that a frequent repair history other than regular oil changes means there is something is wrong to begin with. if i was a prospective buyer of your car in a private sale, i will for sure be asking questions. both of our views are not baseless, and its simply a matter of opinion, and is neither a fact or lie.
L4cky wrote: But the car is fine most of the time. I know it's a lemon, but I can live with it. It isn't as bad as it sounds, but the not starting after a few trip, well maybe it's normal as said by the dealer.

Now what if my car wasn't a lemon, could I have getting it more? Imo, I don't think so.
i beg to differ (AGAIN, AS AN OPINION). i can pretty much say that if there is another exact same model car with the exact same mileage and exact same cosmetic condition as yours, but have a cleaner maintenance history with only the regular oil and fluid changes and no other repairs, that other car will sell for more money than yours

if you want to hold the service guy responsible for his words, why dont you make him write a written agreement that the car is guaranteed to be able to trade in at whatever value he believes it will get. and if not, he will buy it himself? they can certify that the car is good, but they cannot certify a trade-in value unless they are the ones buying it. have you ever thought of just selling the car to the dealer then? maybe you should complain to your service guy why you are only getting $20K for the car, as supposed to whining about it here?

like post #74 said, you are really taking things abit too literally and as gospel

finally, one fun fact: ALL cars will depreciate once it delivers and you drive it out of the lot.

and another fun fact: no dealer will EVER admit that their car is a lemon, unless its a manufacturer-wide recall. i have yet to see a dealer say "ya your car is a piece of crap, its worthless" to their own customers
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Jan 15, 2004
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peteryorkuca wrote: Haha, you read my mind. Saved me the trouble of summarizing everything.

+1
+2, OP is probably the most unusual person I have ever heard of when it comes down to car purchase. Not just about this Unhaggle incident but also the debate on which car to purchase in another thread. OP kept asking for comment or opinion but in reality, things are much better by going to dealership and try it out in person.
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i find it funny that after all the threads whining about his acura, and with an avatar pic defaming acura, now he has the guts to tell us with a straight face that his car is in "perfect" condition for a trade-in lol

my guess is (again, my opinion):
1. OP, a car fanatic, desperately wants to get rid of his car, but at the maximum value possible.
2. OP is not going through the normal process of either a private sale or going to the dealership in person (armed with a unhaggle price report for his car) and trade his car in, for whatever reason
3. OP pays for a unhaggle purchase service, hoping that there is some sort of "precise guaranteed trade-in value" clause that the dealer must swallow for his trade-in so he can get rid of his car.
4. naturally, unhaggle does not offer a precise guaranteed trade-in value, but instead gives OP an industry-backed "fair" trade-in value.
5. dealer honors unhaggle's pricing for the new car, and gives OP a trade-in value that is on the lower end of the range suggested by unhaggle
6. OP, a perfectionist, feels it's "unfair, feels offended, is not happy, wants to back out, but forgot to read the fine print that his $99 fee is non-refundable
7. OP whines on RFD because he feels unhaggle is not delivering what they promised
8. in the meantime, OP continues to find other dealers of other brands using the same unhaggle purchase service
9. go back to step 3, rinse and repeat

note that the word "lemon" was not used in this post until this sentence lol
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Feb 8, 2005
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ES_Revenge wrote: I have to say, this is a late-comer being nearly November and all, but this is definitely a candidate for facepalm thread of the year...at least in this subforum.

Lemme get this straight OP...

You have a car that you really don't like, is a lemon, full of issues, etc. and you see it has a trade-in value "in the book" of $20-22k. You decide to buy a new car and the dealer (dealers being notorious for offering low-ball amounts at trade-in and not giving even book value) offers you a full $20k for your car. This amount is not only within the book value (something you usually don't get at stealers), but you're getting that amount for a car you know is crap and a car you really want to get rid of.

So what do you do? You refuse! And then...then you have the audacity to come on here and complain about not getting your $100 back from Unhaggle due to your own shens/stupidity? LMAO. If it were me (or any other sensible person) they'd have taken that $20k and ran, ran as far away from the lemon Acura you have and never looked back. Instead you demanded more money for a car that you know isn't worth it and you're still stuck with it.

Like I said, total :facepalm:
that's because OP's car is NOT a lemon. he's just exaggerating the so-called "problems" and that's why he didn't trade it in.
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L4cky wrote: Some English question with terms..

What does reserve a car means?

Can you reserve a car such as put a deposit and not going through the deal?

Or does reserving a car means you HAVE to buy it or you already bought it.
Think of it OP. Reserve or reservation is an arrangement to have something (as a hotel room) held for one's use; also : a promise, guarantee, or record of such engagement.

Reserving a car means you have intent to purchase no? You typically don't reserve something unless you have zero intent of committing. You can back out of a reservation, typically a deposit is lost or non-refundable.

Have you never traveled or booked a hotel and put down a deposit to be told that it is not refundable? This thread is getting sad.
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Oct 16, 2007
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I think what the OP is trying to do is wrong. He should just cut his losses and move on. Unhaggle did their job. But he has been misguided from the unhaggle website. They also need to change their wording for people who take things very literally (word for word)

http://support.unhaggle.com/customer/po ... -in-value-

Unhaggle needs to cut the last part about the full refund and just leave it as "contact us". That would have solved all the problems.

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