Computers & Electronics

DSL problems, need help with Phone Wire repairs.

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 15th, 2015 9:02 am
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Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
No I do not, my house is old and so is the style of the demarc, only newer houses have those.
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
Hey guys, I traced line from the phone jack I am using for the modem to the demarc, I have some further questions to understand what is going on before I go out and buy a phone-jack to test.

First, why is there so many others lines at the demarc than just the 4 red, green, yellow and black?

Second, if I take the red and green line off the demarc and connect it to the new phone-jack for testing, wouldn't that be connecting a phone jack to another phone jack?

This is the phone jack I am using for my modem (all the way in the attic)

http://i.imgur.com/d4AFoFq.jpg

I follow the line down, there is another phone jack I think outside the room's door, a floor below, on the left you can see the line going down from the phone jack I am using upstairs, I don't think this phone jack is using the same line, I'm not sure how it works.

http://i.imgur.com/XMTNrhh.jpg

A closer look

http://imgur.com/d4AFoFq,XMTNrhh,UCf5Jj5,1UC3EKi#2

At this point I lose the line and I noticed 2 more phone jacks, if that is what they are called, beside the demarc on the main floor. The wood on the left is the stairs going up, the lines going to the right is connected to the demarc. These one confuses me the most, how much lines is the demarc is providing?

http://i.imgur.com/1UC3EKi.jpg

Does anyone have any tips or advice after seeing these?
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
I gave it some more thought and I think I came up with a conclusion.

I buy a new phone jack, new phone wire, connect red-green wire to both phone jack and demarc after removing the one currently connected. Test modem.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
danieltoronto wrote: The trick is to get rid of all wire junctions (if any) between the incoming copper wire and the modem. That means the bell copper wire that comes into your house/apartment will only go directly to your modem and router.
A lot of people have the DSL modem in the main floor whereas the entry point is in the basement floor. If so go strict to the basement.
My 50 yrs old house had the same problem until I got rid of all telephone jacks in the house.
If you have done that and you still have issue, then you can call Bell knowing full well that the problem originated from outside the house. And they cannot charge u.

When you say get rid of, do you just unscrew all the wires in all the other phone jacks and leave it?
Deal Fanatic
Sep 23, 2013
5047 posts
638 upvotes
NORTH YORK
MNLuong wrote: When you say get rid of, do you just unscrew all the wires in all the other phone jacks and leave it?
You can do that. But you run the risk of missing one hidden somewhere.

Basically you only allow one bell outside line to go to your modem+router (and end there). From that point onward, there is no more phone line.
Daniel

Fido $0 3Gb LTE + overage plan until Feb 2019
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
danieltoronto wrote: You can do that. But you run the risk of missing one hidden somewhere.

Basically you only allow one bell outside line to go to your modem+router (and end there). From that point onward, there is no more phone line.
Oh I see, I don't get how to tell which is the bell outside line though.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 23, 2013
5047 posts
638 upvotes
NORTH YORK
MNLuong wrote: Hey guys, I traced line from the phone jack I am using for the modem to the demarc, I have some further questions to understand what is going on before I go out and buy a phone-jack to test.

First, why is there so many others lines at the demarc than just the 4 red, green, yellow and black?

Second, if I take the red and green line off the demarc and connect it to the new phone-jack for testing, wouldn't that be connecting a phone jack to another phone jack?

This is the phone jack I am using for my modem (all the way in the attic)
That is the source of your nightmare (modem in attic).
The modem should be where the outside bell line enters the house. Most likely in the basement.
May I know if you can find the outside Bell box. From that point trace where and how it gets into your house. There is one line only.
Daniel

Fido $0 3Gb LTE + overage plan until Feb 2019
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
danieltoronto wrote: Is that the first Bell entry point to your house?
I'll need to look around. but thats the demarc so it should be right?
Deal Fanatic
Sep 23, 2013
5047 posts
638 upvotes
NORTH YORK
MNLuong wrote: I'll need to look around. but thats the demarc so it should be right?
Impossible to verify. If you see a telephone wire coming from outside to it, then it is (most likely) the demarc.
Daniel

Fido $0 3Gb LTE + overage plan until Feb 2019
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Mar 20, 2009
8862 posts
2693 upvotes
Vancouver
The demarc is by definition the first point of entry of the external Bell line, where it connects to your inside phone wiring. You need to figure out where that is. Obviously you have a pretty old installation, but regardless the demarc is always accessible. Trace the Bell line from the outside.

From the outside from Bell you will definitely have just one incoming line with 4 leads: Red/Green/Yellow/Black.

Within your home the normal practice is to wire a separate line from each phone jack to the demarc, where they are all wired together to form a single extended circuit. All the inside Red leads are joined together and connected to the outside line Red lead, all the Green leads are joined together etc.. Unfortunately it has never been required practice to label the lines, so you have to try to trace them and guess which is which if it's not obvious. Installers have a test instrument that puts a tone on an individual line so that they can detect which is which more easily. You could do something similar, but visual tracing is quicker if it's not completely obscure.

In your case your purpose is to verify that your inside wiring is not causing a problem for the dsl signal. To do that you want to temporarily disconnect all the inside lines from the house side of the demarc to make sure they aren't the source of the problem, and connect just one new jack directly to the demarc where you will plug in the dsl modem to test it.

It's suspicious that you apparently don't have any dsl filters. Are you sure that you do not have any phone plugged into any of your house phone jacks?
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
JamesA1 wrote: The demarc is by definition the first point of entry of the external Bell line, where it connects to your inside phone wiring. You need to figure out where that is. Obviously you have a pretty old installation, but regardless the demarc is always accessible. Trace the Bell line from the outside.

From the outside from Bell you will definitely have just one incoming line with 4 leads: Red/Green/Yellow/Black.

Within your home the normal practice is to wire a separate line from each phone jack to the demarc, where they are all wired together to form a single extended circuit. All the inside Red leads are joined together and connected to the outside line Red lead, all the Green leads are joined together etc.. Unfortunately it has never been required practice to label the lines, so you have to try to trace them and guess which is which if it's not obvious. Installers have a test instrument that puts a tone on an individual line so that they can detect which is which more easily. You could do something similar, but visual tracing is quicker if it's not completely obscure.

In your case your purpose is to verify that your inside wiring is not causing a problem for the dsl signal. To do that you want to temporarily disconnect all the inside lines from the house side of the demarc to make sure they aren't the source of the problem, and connect just one new jack directly to the demarc where you will plug in the dsl modem to test it.

It's suspicious that you apparently don't have any dsl filters. Are you sure that you do not have any phone plugged into any of your house phone jacks?
I am sure, there is no phones at all.

How do I disconnect all the inside lines, do I do it at each phone jack or at the demarc itself?
Deal Fanatic
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Mar 20, 2009
8862 posts
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Vancouver
At the demarc, where all the leads from the inside phone lines come together.
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
JamesA1 wrote: At the demarc, where all the leads from the inside phone lines come together.
Correct me if I am wrong.

At the demarc, I will remove all red and green wires except for the bell wire coming from outside, With a new Phone-jack and new phone wire I will attach it to the demarc with the bell wire from outside. Commence testing after.

When I look at this picture I took I only see 1 green and 1 red, not multiples though

http://i.imgur.com/ExOuwAO.jpg

Does this mean it is not the demarc?
Deal Fanatic
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Mar 20, 2009
8862 posts
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Vancouver
It looks like you have an outside line coming in where the Red and Green leads are connected to the screw posts, and the Yellow and Black leads have been cut off and wrapped around the cable to keep them out of the way. That's typical when you have only a single incoming phone line (the Yellow and Black leads would be used only if you asked for a 2nd phone line). From one of your earlier photos I would guess that from there it is connected to a second box nearby where your all your inside lines terminate. For your purpose I would connect the new jack directly at the demarc where the outside line comes in. If my speculation is correct that all your inside lines terminate at another box nearby, you can disconnect all of them from the outside line by just disconnecting the line between the two boxes.

But there's another problem. That coil in the right side of your photo is a filter of some sort. Could be an old loading coil. Can't tell what it's connected to, but you'd better figure that out.
Newbie
Jul 1, 2015
49 posts
7 upvotes
Thanks james I am pretty confident in attempting this now, will be updating this thread.

I posted the same thing in toms hardware, though people there did not give me the info I needed like you did, they did explain what that coil thingy is if you are interested.

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id- ... l#16180330
Deal Fanatic
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Mar 20, 2009
8862 posts
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Vancouver
I think they're right about it being some sort of ringer, and they're also right to warn you that it's acting as a filter on your line if it's connected. As I said earlier, you need to be sure that you don't have anything connected to your inside phone lines that could be interfering with the dsl signal, and a ringer could qualify. It would have less effect on high frequencies, and it was one of the things that the original adsl spec was designed to work around, but newer protocol updates like adsl2 and vdsl for higher speed kind of assume that nobody has an old style coil ringer on their line any more!
Penalty Box
User avatar
Apr 25, 2013
7398 posts
1338 upvotes
Hmmmm, strange DEMARC with a built in bell, this looks like a ring extender doubling as a DEMARC or maybe the BHell tech was just running a wire from there because it was convenient. It does not look that old maybe 70ish !
Best thing is to find the entry point of the wire outside and follow it inside. DEMARC points are usually in the basement of older homes above a door entrance or window and look something like this if the house was built before the 60's. Look for BHell's cables entering your house near a window or door.

[IMG]http://thisishowweparty.com/img/dmarc1.jpg[/IMG]

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