Solar Pool heating, share your experience

[Rockstead]

I'm in Montreal and I have a 16x32 inground pool. I currently don't have any heating and was considering Solar heating as an option.

I'm not talking about the blankets, but the solar panels they put on your roof that is then attached to your pump to heat your pool.

has anyone had any experience with this? I'm not looking to do it myself, I'd like to hire a contractor to do it.

Was it a good experience and did it make a huge difference to justtify the expense of the installation? and how much was the initial cost, and what does it cost you to maintain it?

It would also be great if anyone had any Pool contractors in Montreal to refer.

[mlc2000]

My neighbour has this. He said is was more $ up front than a gas heater.
But then then you won't have any gas bills to cntend with. I imagine the gas bill would be atrocious for the beginning of the year when you are trying to heat 50 degree water up to 80 degrees. Having said that, with a gas heater, you have the choice of when your pool season starts and when it ends, although it doesn't matter hoe warm the pool is, no one is gonna go swimming in late september.

With solar, you need Hot sunlight, not just direct sunlight. If its cloudy, there's no heat. Later in the summer (September), you get less direct sunlight and its not as hot so your pool does not keep heating.

Having a gas heater and not using a solar blanket is akin to p!ssing your $, well, into the pool.

Having a solar heater and not using a solar blanket is worse because if its cloudy for a few days, all your heat will be gone and now the pool has to work extra hard to get the temp up again.

Theres pro's and con's but theres one certainty, you're going to need a solar blanket.

[Carnage]

If you do end up planning on getting a solar blanket as well as a seperate heater just remember that blankets do not heat pools.

Solar blankets do not work as heaters. They are used to keep the heat in. Basically you put it on overnight to keep the heat in the pool. then take it off during the day so that the sunlight can heat the pool.

[Rockstead]

My neighbour has this. He said is was more $ up front than a gas heater.
But then then you won't have any gas bills to cntend with. I imagine the gas bill would be atrocious for the beginning of the year when you are trying to heat 50 degree water up to 80 degrees. Having said that, with a gas heater, you have the choice of when your pool season starts and when it ends, although it doesn't matter hoe warm the pool is, no one is gonna go swimming in late september.

With solar, you need Hot sunlight, not just direct sunlight. If its cloudy, there's no heat. Later in the summer (September), you get less direct sunlight and its not as hot so your pool does not keep heating.

Having a gas heater and not using a solar blanket is akin to p!ssing your $, well, into the pool.

Having a solar heater and not using a solar blanket is worse because if its cloudy for a few days, all your heat will be gone and now the pool has to work extra hard to get the temp up again.

Theres pro's and con's but theres one certainty, you're going to need a solar blanket.

a kind RFDer just sent me a PM regarding the Solar panels, he mentioned that they were loud and that it takes some time getting used to the noise of the water, I didnt consider this and it may be a deal breaker, unless there is away to keep down the noice to a minimum.

[AudiDude]

Back in the 70s, my friend's dad wasn't to interested in paying to heat the pool so he put black PVC piping on a black 4'x8' board on the roof of the house and ran water through the PVC to heat it. The piping was zig-zagged across the board for maximum concentration of piping. I think it might be better if the pipes were trapped in a box (to trap solar energy) with a clear lid (plexiglass) and had a reflective interior. Use a pool cover in conjunction with this and the water should be fine.Look on the internet under solar cooking and you will see that with Home Depot and a weekend, you could build something that will work well. My friend's dad worked for Ontario Hydro as well, but it's tough to keep a good Scottsman down.

[Rockstead]

If you do end up planning on getting a solar blanket as well as a seperate heater just remember that blankets do not heat pools.

Solar blankets do not work as heaters. They are used to keep the heat in. Basically you put it on overnight to keep the heat in the pool. then take it off during the day so that the sunlight can heat the pool.

I had always though this as well until I found this article on blankets, sounds like you are refering to how a thermal blanket works, but a Solar blanket is actually supposed to heat a pool.


http://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/in...d=142&PgId=884

"Two cover types are available. The first is a solar blanket (see Figure 5), which consists of a translucent cell or bubble arrangement of 0.3 mm (12 mil) polyethylene. It allows solar radiation to warm the water. This cover primarily prevents evaporative heat loss but also reduces heat loss through convection and conduction. With careful handling to prevent bubble breakage, it can last two to three swimming seasons.

The second type, a thermal blanket (see Figure 6), consists of a 3 mm (1/8 inch) layer of closed-cell polyethylene foam covered by a protective layer of woven polyethylene. It provides more insulation than a solar blanket, but because it is opaque it prevents solar radiation from warming the water. Leaving the pool uncovered on hot days will help warm the water. If you have a heated pool in a shaded area, an opaque blanket is the most cost-efficient cover you can get. It can last from four to five years."

[dgmorr]

With solar, you need Hot sunlight, not just direct sunlight. If its cloudy, there's no heat. Later in the summer (September), you get less direct sunlight and its not as hot so your pool does not keep heating.

You don't need HOT sunlight for photovoltaic cells to work. If you don't believe me, go in a large freezer with a flashlight and calculator....calculator still works. Maybe you meant the beams are not as strong on cloudy days?

But yes, direct sunlight will play a huge part in the power you get. You could always have a few batteries to store the power too, but that would probably drive up the cost.

[Carnage]

I had always though this as well until I found this article on blankets, sounds like you are refering to how a thermal blanket works, but a Solar blanket is actually supposed to heat a pool.


http://www.canren.gc.ca/prod_serv/in...d=142&PgId=884

"Two cover types are available. The first is a solar blanket (see Figure 5), which consists of a translucent cell or bubble arrangement of 0.3 mm (12 mil) polyethylene. It allows solar radiation to warm the water. This cover primarily prevents evaporative heat loss but also reduces heat loss through convection and conduction. With careful handling to prevent bubble breakage, it can last two to three swimming seasons.

We do indeed have a solar blanket.

Techically it does heat the pool. However you will not get amazing results from it.

In realistic terms you will use it as I mentioned. We only use our blanket during the evening to keep the heat in.

Now if we did leave it on in the day it would still heat the pool. But I've always found that the sun alone can do a better job.

And also the amount of use out of the blanket will depend on what kind of sunlight you get. Our pool is perfect as there are no trees nearby, and it's on the side of the house that gets the most sun.

a solar blanket is good of keeping the temps up in the summer months. But when you're talking early may, or september it's kind of an uphill battle. The blanket alone will not keep the temps up too much. It will help somewhat, but the cold weather will bring the temps down.

If you want to swim in early may, or september you're going to need a real heater.

[Rockstead]

I ended up finding two companies that do Solar Pool heaters, www.techno-solis.com, and Heliocol Canada.

Has anyone used either product and can make a recommendation?

I'm also looking for a Pool contractor for the Montreal area if anyone knows one.


Thanks

[Rockstead]

Thanks Ryan, I'll check it out, the cost of gas is exactly the reason why I want to go with Solar Powered.

In case anyone else is interested in doing this, In my research I found that you should stay away from "rubber" panels because of their
tendency to leach rubberizer (oil) into the water under high
temperature conditions (stagnation), This eleminates the
Fafco panel.

I had Fafco on my lists of Vendors to consider, I have since removed it.


Also, another member had said that these could be loud. I spoke to a vendor at a Home Soow and they said that the professional kits should be silent. I would love to hear feedback from someone using one of these professional kits.

[Rockstead]

Solar Ontario recommended the same people that I mentioned in a message above. I guess there aren't too many people doing this.

I guess the Pool companies don't want to be involved, the profit margin must be far greater with a Heat pump / Gas heater.

[EricMat]

Anybody ever considered the SunHeater solar pool heating system offered on Costco's website?

160$ for 1 box (you might need more depending on pool size)


An In-Ground version of the same system is offered here

230$ for 1 box (you might need more depending on pool size)

It looks really cheap and with Costco no hassle warranty, you can't go wrong... right? I'm really tempted to buy two sets (I think we need two for a 21ft pool).

If anybody already bought and tried one of those kits, please comment. They sure take a lot of space in your backyard and look kinda fugly...

Eric

[ecodad]

Rockstead,

I operate SolarOntario (and have 30 years in the solar business). I do suggest you read our section on solar blankets.

The Techno-Solis product is what I would recommend to you, it will give you the most heat for the dollar spent. (it was originally made in Quebec, now made in Florida) Pools require a tremendous amount of heat, so solar systems are not small. (Notice that a gas pool heater has a heating capacity of 250 thousand BTUs an hour. An average house furnace has a heating capacity of 80 thousand BTUs per hour, and when a gas pool heater runs, it runs for hours at a time!

Rubber products like Solex and Enersol are low efficiency solar collectors (meaning you need more of them to do the same job), but the leaching problems are basically fixed. Heliocol is the least efficient product on the market - according to Cdn. gov't tests. The Fafco Sunheater product is not rubber, and it is a good product - but not at all freeze tolerant (Techno-Solis is). I recommend staying far away from the Smart Pool Sunheater. (unless you want to be replacing your collectors every 2 years - after retrieving them from your neighbours yard!)

In your area I would start with a minimum of 60% of the pool's surface area - 6 - 4' x 12' Techno-Solis collectors - facing South. Do add the automatic solar controller - it will allow the system to work much more efficiently and deliver more heat than if you try to run it manually.

Regards

[johnredcorn1]

I have a 16x24 pool and have used the enersol solar for the last 5 years and it has been great.We have a very shaded yard and it was hard to get the pool in the 80's even in the mid summer with the solar it is no problem now. I installed the system myself at a cost of 1,200.It all depends on how many panels you need and the piping to run to the pump. The only draw backs are if your looking to swim earlier or later in the season it will not help that much. When the weather warms up tho my system will go up 6 degrees in the day and then down 4 at nite without the solar balanket on.Take a look at enersol.com they have all the info you need.

[ecodad]

Solar pool heating is one of those technical things that non-technical people can mess around with. This is why we in the business see all kinds of home-made and/or self-installed solar systems out there. The coils of black pipe on roofs and really cheap crappy products badly installed, etc. Ask any one of these do-it-yourselfers (or as I sometimes refer to them - do-in-yourselfers), and their pool now gets so hot they have to add cold water to cool it down - in december!!

The truth is that it takes a big, highly efficient, properly installed with an automatic controller, solar system to heat a pool well.

There are a number of products on the market that are aimed at the DIY market. These products are most often low-efficiency rubber products. Government tests (I don't trust the manufacturer's performance numbers) show that the rubber products deliver 30% to 40% less heat per square ft/metre than the high efficiency professional, plastic products like Fafco and Techno-Solis. That means you need 30% to 40% more of the low efficiency products to do the job (so instead of starting with 50% of the pool's surface area you have to start with 65% to70% of the pool's surface area).

Another significant sizing issue is the use of an automatic controller. Manually operated systems deliver significantly less heat than systems that use automatic controllers. If you run a solar system overnight you will cool the pool off - maybe losing more heat than you collected. Some people use a pump timer - which can work, except if it goes out of sync or if it's cloudy or raining... Also, a timer won't keep the solar system from overheating the pool either, auto controllers will.

As I have previously posted, the only solar pool heating product that I (currently) warn people about is the Sunheater by Smartpool. It has a very short lifespan and the roof mounting system fails badly. Cheap - but you're getting exactly what you pay for.