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[OP]
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Aug 14, 2017
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hdom wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 1:15 pm
They are cheaper for a reason, a lot of people are still using their a6000 and find no need to upgrade. There are still people buying the a6000 for the first time and people get excited when there is an a6000 post in hot deals, can't say the same about M3.

Look into the RX100 class if you may be able to live with and for more video recording, there is a new RX0, too.
A6000 isn't gonna be value king forever. Everyone else is improving or giving enticing deals.

People are reposting same price over and over when stock comes back. There is nothing new or better about openbox A6000 deal. Price is same as months ago. Price didn't drop. Bundle didn't change.

No need for upgrade doesn't mean we no longer want value leaders. I no longer feel need for upgrading phone however it is exciting to see when new value leader comes in the market (eg: Moto E4). When my current phone dies I will go out and buy whatever is great value at the time. Cameras are bit challenging in a sense that we have to also change lenses. I value companies that build long term royalty.
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It's still a good camera, from purely an image quality POV.
However, an update will help bring it up to date as it is missing some features found in other cameras in this price range these days like Silent Shutter, 4K, Touchscreen etc. Not everyone needs the higher end A6300/A6500 features like weather sealing or mag-alloy bodies, but things like 4K and Touchscreen are pretty basic features these days.

However, Sony's focus seems to be Full Frame.

The new Value King camera seems to be the Panasonic GX85. Costs the same or cheaper (when on sale) than a6000 and that camera has IBIS, 4K, 1/16000 Electronic Shutter, TouchScreen, and many other unique in-camera software features like Post Focus, Focus Stacking, Light Composition etc. The negatives are small EVF and 16mp sensor. If Panasonic can put the 20mp sensor in there for GX85 II and keep the price the same, it will be an amazing camera.
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hdom wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 1:15 pm
They are cheaper for a reason, a lot of people are still using their a6000 and find no need to upgrade. There are still people buying the a6000 for the first time and people get excited when there is an a6000 post in hot deals, can't say the same about M3.

Look into the RX100 class if you may be able to live with and for more video recording, there is a new RX0, too.
because Yi M3 is a newcomer without track record

RX0...just no. $900 action cam that can't do internal 4K
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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Was responding to OP's reference of Canon EOS M3 and the RX0 uses the same sensor as RX100 which has proven to take pretty good video compared to latest GoPros.
twitchyzero wrote:
Sep 13th, 2017 4:59 pm
because Yi M3 is a newcomer without track record

RX0...just no. $900 action cam that can't do internal 4K
The Devil made me buy it - RFD. :twisted:
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it requires an external recorder to record 4K
something that even the RX100 IV from 2015 didn't require
Russell wrote:
Sep 10th, 2011 12:29 pm
We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

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twitchyzero wrote:
Sep 14th, 2017 6:32 pm
it requires an external recorder to record 4K
something that even the RX100 IV from 2015 didn't require
don't worry, they'll add it for MkII and add another $100 to the price.
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Sony getting greedy and you're surprised?

Take a look at their history....
[OP]
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Aug 14, 2017
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Not surprised; just confirming what I think is happening. I see few deniers here reading comments. I will be paying attention to MFT bodies on clearance/sale going forward. I didn't care for MFT before but once SLR dies I may be going dual Sony-MFT setup.

RX100 is a good portable second camera once you have a primary ILC camera. However getting it as a second camera means budget has to be $2000 ($1000 for primary ILC, $1000 for RX100). I don't know how many average family care to spend $2000 on cameras. Reality is average family picks up a camera kit at a big box store and very few of them goes beyond buying lenses and second bodies.

I congratulate people who graduate from smartphone photography because internet is awash with mediocre photos and people will click like on anything.
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42energy wrote:
Sep 15th, 2017 6:32 pm
Not surprised; just confirming what I think is happening. I see few deniers here reading comments. I will be paying attention to MFT bodies on clearance/sale going forward. I didn't care for MFT before but once SLR dies I may be going dual Sony-MFT setup.

RX100 is a good portable second camera once you have a primary ILC camera. However getting it as a second camera means budget has to be $2000 ($1000 for primary ILC, $1000 for RX100). I don't know how many average family care to spend $2000 on cameras. Reality is average family picks up a camera kit at a big box store and very few of them goes beyond buying lenses and second bodies.

I congratulate people who graduate from smartphone photography because internet is awash with mediocre photos and people will click like on anything.
MFT is commonly short for Micro Four Thirds which Sony doesn't currently sell, you must mean their Full Frame or APS-C Mirrorless offerings.

Keep in mind it's the person behind the camera that makes the picture, not the gear. Despite good photography as subjective, someone with a smartphone who takes a class like this and practices it will produce better images than someone who has a dedicated mirrorless or DSLR and knows nothing about the exposure triangle, composition, and lighting.
https://www.creativelive.com/photograph ... hotography

The fact that there appears to be lots of poor phone photography out there is just numbers because everyone now has a camera on them. Anyone can become a better photographer with whatever gear they have.
[OP]
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AncasterRFD wrote:
Sep 15th, 2017 8:05 pm
MFT is commonly short for Micro Four Thirds which Sony doesn't currently sell, you must mean their Full Frame or APS-C Mirrorless offerings.

Keep in mind it's the person behind the camera that makes the picture, not the gear. Despite good photography as subjective, someone with a smartphone who takes a class like this and practices it will produce better images than someone who has a dedicated mirrorless or DSLR and knows nothing about the exposure triangle, composition, and lighting.
https://www.creativelive.com/photograph ... hotography

The fact that there appears to be lots of poor phone photography out there is just numbers because everyone now has a camera on them. Anyone can become a better photographer with whatever gear they have.
I do mean MFT. Because MFT has multiple manufactures making same mounts its easier to write than listing all by names.

I haven't said anything nor disagreeing about person over camera comment. Smartphones that are supposedly good, costs $1000-1500. I'd rather have $50 Moto E4, a $600 mirrorless and $400 3rd party prime. I am even in terms of expense, but with much better results.

Back to the point of Sony being greedy, yes it appears to be the case considering the competition. In a hypothetical camera cartel world where MFT cameras didn't exist and no one improved, I wouldn't be able to say that because I wouldn't have another option to go to.
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Sorry, I re-read, you mean a Sony and a MFT, 2 separate cameras, not 2 "Sony Micro Four Thirds" cameras when you say "dual Sony-MFT setup". My apologies.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just opening your horizons on phone photography and people don't necessarily have to "graduate from smartphone". How else can you edit and share right away? The higher price is relevant because they are communication devices and a pocketable computer with a nice screen, not just a camera. The exhorbitant high prices are flagship models and that's because they are the latest greatest. I respect that you may not want to use a phone, but it IS possible to create beautiful images with one. It is user and editing skills.

These are all examples of award winning iPhone photos, and there are tons of "best Instagram iPhone photographers", you can examine the EXIF, some of them made with older iPhones not necessarily costing $1000-1500. I'm viewing them on a 27" 5K P3 monitor and they still look pretty good:

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I just used iPhone as an example, can be an android. No ill feelings towards you, and all the best for your photography!
[OP]
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Aug 14, 2017
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Can we keep this on debating is sony greedy question? I did not post to debate is photographer or gear more important question. However legitimate that debate is (my opinion is photographer) I am looking for affirmation or contradiction based on evidence to the original question
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42energy wrote:
Sep 15th, 2017 10:10 pm
Can we keep this on debating is sony greedy question? I did not post to debate is photographer or gear more important question. However legitimate that debate is (my opinion is photographer) I am looking for affirmation or contradiction based on evidence to the original question
No problem, thanks for editing. I admit I may get overly enthusiastic about imaging and illustrative in my posts, I just enjoy talking about it and I like to see everyone improve and try different things. I don't mean to rub anyone the wrong way. Again, I'm sorry.

Is Sony greedy? $11,000 to switch from Canon.
https://petapixel.com/2017/04/25/report ... anon-sony/

I don't think it's far off as I have two Canon 5DIV's and L lenses I work with, switching would definitely cost me more than 11K. You know the farther you get into Sony, especially native fast lenses, it will cost you an arm/leg. You also mentioned 4K and Sony's heat up, it's CPU related. Ultimately it's your choice. Remember good glass > good body. This is the complete list of MFT lenses, and you will find users like warpdrive very knowledgeable about the genre.
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I do think all manufacturers do have to get greedy from now on. The market for cameras is basically being massacred by phones, and makers have to innovate and move upmarket where the margins are good. You can't make money on quantity anymore. Now, unless they keep innovating, cellphones were erode the market further as they use multiple sensors and massive computation power to achieve faster, easier, consistent results which surpass some of which you can do on any normal camera.

I think we can see examples of greediness from all manufacturers. Standalone cameras are becoming a niche item....we'll have to get used to it.
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Sony is greedy because it's a company like any others and they have to please their shareholder so they will make plenty of stupid decisions to up their quarter's profit, etc.

As a company, having a camera that sells well, relevant and still one of the best budget wise camera, it seems logical to leave it as is. Specially that there is no worthy competition in that range. Who else make an APS-C mirrorless with such a good sensor in that price range? Definitely not Fuji ($$$), Leica ($$$$$$$$) or Canon (not that great sensor).
Why spend money on R&D for not much reason right? Not only Sony, if APS-C mirrorless are priced much higher, you bet Panasonic or Olympus will raise their MFT cameras price in the blink of an eye.

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