Student Works Painting: Hiring Painters!!

[AcidBomber]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

Wow... thanks for sharing your story. Good to know, and good luck.

[Trevor457]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.

[hitek0007]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.

Note: 1 post only.

[deep]

I am currently a second year manager with Student Works Painting and it has been a great experience for me. In my first year I made approximately $30k and got a free trip to Mexico at the end of the year. I wouldn't have been able to make anywhere near that amount of money at a regular student job. It is true that some managers make little or no money (or even lose money), but that's the nature of owning a business. You can win big or you can lose big. I agree that some manages arn't given enough support to start out, and am trying to convince the owner of a better way to provide this support. In the mean time, just because you had a bad experience with the company does not mean that everyone will.

Note: this post may exceed your FDA mandated daily dose of BS.

Someone is obviously in the early learning stages of gaming social media.

[BornRuff]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

I guess this shows how they are not a very good support system for you.

It is also a good example though of why you should walk before you run. You should definitely see how much it actually costs to paint a house before locking yourself into a whole summers worth of jobs.

[BornRuff]

Note: 1 post only.

Note: this post may exceed your FDA mandated daily dose of BS.

Someone is obviously in the early learning stages of gaming social media.

Seems funny that people don't point that out when people are arguing against the company.

[angekfire]

Students beware - this is a seriously bad business venture for most. I operated a franchise in south western Ontario about eight years ago, and I personally lost $10 000 of my money (borrowed off of a student line of credit) to this horrible franchise "opportunity". They start off by selecting you because of your 'vast potential,' and you are pressured to sign a 40 page contract laced with legal jargon on the spot, or else you will lose out on this 'valuable opportunity' to the next eager student waiting for their chance - I was told I wasn't even allowed to go over the contract with my parents, for fear of leaking valuable information (I was 19 - an adult, yes, but still pretty naieve). Then there's the "training." You absolutely cannot learn how to properly quote and perform truly professional painting jobs (both interior and exterior, diagnosis, prep, and all), plus all the other nuances of running a business for the 1st time in a 3-day training seminar. I was promised that I would be accompanied for my first three estimates - and believe me, I was good at cold calling, so I found the jobs fast - but my regional supervisor canceled out of meeting me for every single one, stating that I was one of the "best" in the training seminar, so he wasn't worried about me. I lined up a summer full of contracts that were completely undervalued thanks to my stellar "training," and was sunk before I even began. We started work, but every job ran short on money - Student Works Painting takes their 30% cut off of the top of every job, regardless of whether or not you run short, then the paint store was paid, then the workers (they control all payroll activity, too) and then you, the franchisee. The workers are paid by piece-work, so of course they start to quit when the pay gets too low. When I realized about a month in that I was tanking fast, I met with my manager in tears, and told him I wanted to close the franchise because, just going into 2nd year university, I could not afford to lose any more money. He threatened me with a $30,000 law suit if I backed out, because of a stipulation in the contract that I signed that I would be personally responsible for the losses that Student Works Painting Corp. would incur by not having a franchisee in my area. Interestingly enough, he failed to provide me with a copy of my contract, despite multiple verbal and written requests on my part (and that little old thing they call the "law"), and he successfully ducked me for the rest of the summer. Still fearing legal recourse because I had no copy of what I signed, I opted to finish completing the contracts that I had lined up - without searching for new ones - despite knowing that I would be losing money, and I began paying my workers out of pocket just to keep them with me in order to complete the work. This was because in several jobs, after Student Works got their cut, and the paint was mostly paid for, there was nothing left even for my workers (in one case, I paid for some paint out of pocket, too). Then there was the fact that my regional supervisor was also running his own painting business, and would take all of the big contracts from us franchisees - a furniture store, a restaurant/bar, a college - as a FAVOUR to us, because we simply were "not equipped to handle them." Overall, this was a miserable experience - I am approaching 30, and I still have not come close to paying off what I lost from this venture - I was unable to attend law school because of it, despite maintaining a straight A average as an economics major. You simply cannot learn all there is to being a professional painter using the "coles notes guide to painting." I am sure they will try to paint me as an idiot, but believe me, I am far from, and this nightmare could happen to anyone. If you have already committed to them, GET A COPY OF YOUR CONTRACT - they will try to argue this due to "valuable" trade secrets, but it is your right by law - and be very careful; you will be pressured to line up as many jobs as you can, as quickly as you can, and you will be inundated with corporate propaganda newsletters to tell you how much money all the other franchisees are making (in our newsletters, it was always the same 4 people for all of Ontario, and they were all in the GTA). Do not let this affect your estimates, or you will pay in the end. Franchisee beware - I wish you the best of luck.

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.

[BornRuff]

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.

I think that clause where they can sue you if you quit is probably the largest issue with this, especially if it is not clearly explained before kids sign on. I think it sets up a situation where the company has little incentive to see you succeed. If they are going to market it as an opportunity for students, they should work with you enough to at least make sure you are not loosing money.

I think that the way they promote it as something that any student can do is very wrong if they have these sorts of clauses in the contract.

Overall, the terms of the deal are not very out there for a turn key franchise opportunity. I think they just need to be more up front with students about the nature of owning a business, and provide some sort of support to avoid these situations where people are being forced to work all summer even though a mistake has made it impossible to make a profit from the start.

[lsmith999]

I am a college student who interviewed with a guy named Johnny Ziomek of College Works Painting Irvine for a job painting. He did a group interview in San Diego. Afterwards he said I was one of those who got the job and asked me to go to a job site at 7 am the following day where I and 2 other people worked for 4 hours. After that, he said it was just a test and sent 2 of us home unpaid. We were stunned. This guy takes advantage of young people and uneducated people.

[robster77]

Does Student Works do a good job painting? My wife wants to get them in to paint the house.

[svelten]

Do I know you? One of my friends was in a very similar situation. He was a manager, had a number of people working under him. Eventually he started losing money, and when he went to quit, they slapped him with a massive bill for breaking the contract or something, IRC is was around 16k. He was also a university student. He ended up having a breakdown, and is now on a bunch of medication to fight the depression that this caused him a few years ago. I knew 2 of his employees too, and they vouched for his story.

I had another friend who did the painting over a summer, not as a manager, just a painter, and he ended up getting screwed over by the whole under-quoting, and thus they got less pay for more work.

I'd say to avoid these things like the plague.

Wow that is simply terrible. I can't imagine things being that bad to deliver a breakdown. I did this, both as a painter and subsequently a manager the next year roughly 5 summers ago and I feel enough time has gone by for me to discuss about my experience objectively.

For painters, the system is known as "piecework" and your wage will largely depend on which manager you were working for. Stingy ones will severely underpay you, especially if you are fairly new at painting by claiming a certain area will require "2 hours" to paint, but in reality it will reasonably require any painter 4 hours or more. If you rush through the section and paint poorly, they will ask you to repaint the area. If this consistently happens, you can see how your $10 or $12 per hour rate quickly drops to $5 or less. You can make literally below third world country child labor wages busting your ass on a 30 ft ladder, risking your life while baking in the hot sun on top of black roofing. And half the time it is through no fault of your own; just your manager severely underestimating the cost of the house. Of course it is understandble; royalties are over 30% so if the manager wants to make any money at all, he will be charging his client an average price but paying painters way under market value so he can afford the paint and royalties.

On the flip side, if your manager has his head screwed on right, knows what he's doing, and is charming enough to sell and convince his clients to pay well above average prices for painting you will be rewarded fairly enough; ie a 4 hour job will actually take 4 hours. Your interview with your employer/manager as a painter should be more of YOU asking THEM questions on how they manage and how their job sites are rather than how you paint; they really often don't care and give you the worst of training.

For the managers, the stakes are obviously higher. People who are claiming 30k incomes are likely purporting half-truths; that is yes, they probably did rake in gross 30k, but have not yet calculated how many hours they've spent, how much equipment they had to purchase and how much gas they had to use running around. Still, it is entirely possible to make that amount, although I guarantee it is not from "just one summer". The 30k'ers have to be on the ball by January until August, and work well beyond a 40 hour work week throughout that entire duration. I really cannot emphasize enough how important it is for managers to:

1. Hire good painters. Forget the younger students; they are unmotivated, lazy, have a sense of entitlement and will complain about your "unfair piecework" (justifiably or not, you have to watch for your account balance at this point) constantly. Instead, contract out your work to a couple of really skilled labourers and negotiate a rate for each job site. You'll end up with far fewer headaches and a clear picture of how much money you'll get from the job site, and peace of mind that your painters will not royally **** up the house by spilling paint around or forgetting to paint crucial areas.

2. Don't paint yourself. You are a manager. You don't have time for that. Forget about maximizing bottom line; sell jobs and get more seasoned skilled painters to contract your work to. Ideally your profit margins are going to suck per house (think a couple hundred on a 3 grand job), but at least they -will- be profitable for you and you will have done very little work to get those 2 bills. Forget all those inflated numbers the parent company tells you on what your ideal profit should be - they are a joke and are not realistic at all. Unless you're able to ridiculously overprice the value of your house (you can try this out if you have 36C cups and great legs), you will face stiff competition from other painting gigs and you'll likely have to sell at market value.

3. Refuse warranty work whenever possible. Give it to someone else. Quickly subcontract it to one of your seasoned painters and pocket the net $5 you'll make -- Student Works and College Pro totally rips you off on these. It's basically volunteer work and a waste of your time.

4. Give your clients options on whether they want to use the ICI paint. Just because Student Works signed a contract with that company doesn't mean it's your best option.

5. Do not EVER, EVER undersell just to get a signature. You WILL be tempted and succumb to instructing your painters to cut corners to make up for the lower margins. Then you'll end up having to redo some areas or even replace damaged property due to the ****ups your painters will invariably subject you and your client to because they are pressured/rushed to finish a job that they are only paid half the time to do. This is how like 99% of managers end up losing money.

6. Insurance. You have it. Don't let Student Works boss you out of it when **** hits the fan. They used scare tactics and threatened me not to use it 5 years ago, but in the contract you signed (By the way, I obtained a copy of mine -- I have no idea why the poster above could not get a copy of his.) it entitles you to it.

7. Get commercial property if you can. I have no advice on how to do this, but these are by far the most profitable and most of the top-10 earners each season used these extensively.

Summary:
-Hire guys who already know how to paint so you won't have to supervise them. Do not hire kids/students.
-Accept lower profit margins per house, but concentrate on getting 3, 4, even 5 or 6 simultaneous job sites at once.
-Don't undersell. Don't ridiculously price your estimates either. Sell at the market value and use a combination of your youthful charm, good employees and perceived professional name brand.
-Spend as much time marketing as possible. Don't take any time off, do it every day, every weekend. If you signed onto this, forget about having a summer; you're in it to not end up like half the managers and lose money. Call people, place ads in newspapers, knock on doors, etc.



Damn I used my entire lunch break to type this out. I hope someone finds use in this and won't screw up like the example above, leading into depressions and breakdowns. Overall, I found the experience to be very valuable and it gave me much more confidence in dealing with all sorts of people, contributing to my personal and professional growth. Do not make the serious missteps and I think you will have found it worthwhile -- I still get asked about it and discuss my management experience in my resume. In my opinion, it truly does count as "management experience" since you deal with all aspects of it, albeit on a lower level.

[svelten]

Does Student Works do a good job painting? My wife wants to get them in to paint the house.

They vary greatly from manager to manager; some can be absolutely terrible, most are decent. Look at the manager who is selling you the paint job, and ask to see who his employees are in particular and ask about their backgrounds in painting. If possible, ask for samples of their work.

[Black-Jays]

If you don't mind dishonest managers, then being a painter for Student Works Painting is the right job for you. The system is set up so that managers are able to rip off employees. My advice would be to keep track of your paiting hours and colding calling hours. I guess I learned a valuable lesson because I learned to be careful of who I trust. I know many people that run respectable businesses and giving employees their fair share. If I know my manager is going to gip me, then I will likely gip the manager back. I know that some managers are not like this and it is not my intent to label Student Works Painting as a whole as being dishonest, but a few incidences may deter students from working for the company. This is a problem because managers are having problems finding painters and a few managers can ruin it for the rest of the managers. The system is set up so that managers can gip their employees and can have a great impact on the company's reputation.

[Black-Jays]

This job has no security and I think it is important that student should be FULLY aware of this. No president will tell you this because it will deter students from being employed with this company. This job is appropriate for people that are able to tolerate unstable conditions. For example, students can be expected to work a range of 0 hours to 60 hours per week. This varies based on the number of jobs cancelled at the last minute (this happens often). Students who want steady summer employment should avoid this job.

The manager expects painters to follow the Student Works Painting manual piously. The manager would be reciting word-for-word of the manual and that is not the purpose of the manual.

The manager does not give periodic evaluations which I was surprised because evaluations are a critical part in communication between employees and their managers. I would like to know what I am doing wrong and what I am doing right. Managers that expect me to approach things a certain way cannot expect me to because I am not a mind reader.

P.S. Customer who are thinking of putting down a deposit to secure their bookings do not do this because it is a scam because they are not likely to cancel your booking anyways. The only reason why they suggest customers put a deposit down is so that they have money to pay materials before the job has occured and that if you cancel they still have your deposit without incurring any expenses.

[Black-Jays]

I quoted this job at 60 hrs for each of you. What? It took 95? Tough *****.

I know what you mean. My manager expected me and my friend to complete a house in two days. I think professional painters take longer to complete a house and how would you expect students to complete a house in that amount of time.