Tankless Water Heater Rebate from Enbridge

[Netcruzer]

I'm sure everyone is already aware, but you need to be careful about expecting a refund with the new Home Renovation Tax Credit (HRTC).

The HRTC is a "Non-Refundable Tax Credit", which means that you CAN'T claim it if you are already expecting a refund. IE: it is only useful if you expect to owe money on your taxes next year.

Also, some of these gas instant-hot water tanks require a larger natural gas pipe be installed, which will also add to the cost.

Wow, really? That's terrible! We just bought a house and have been keeping the receipts for everything we buy to add up at the end of the year. We usually both get refunds on our taxes each year, so does that mean we will not get any HRTC money back? This will piss off a ton of people next tax season, this is the first I've heard of it.

[sc888888]

can someone who has already done this renovation give me a brief run down on how the installation works?? Does it take a few days, or is it a single day job? Are there any limitations for the tankless heater installation or can any home have one??

thanks.

I have my furnace and tankless heater replaced in a day (8 hours) . It is installed by professional installer. To me it seems fairly straight forward. Open wall to install exhaust pipe, hang the unit on basement wall, connect water and gas. Every installation is different so this can only be a rough guide.

I don't think there are any limitations for tankless. You do need a larger 3/4" cold water feed and larger gas feed.

[bririp]

We do several dozen tankless installs per year and have had no complaints. The main reason for this is we take time to educate the customer about what to expect.

You "CAN" save "UPTO" 50-70% of your energy costs if you keep your same usage pattern. For example, with a tank, your 16 year old daughter runs out of hot water and turns the shower off. If the hot water never ends, and she decides to take an extra hour, you won't see the same savings. If you don't change your usage, there is great savings to be had.

In regards to installation, there are several factors which can change that cost ie. Gas pipe sizing: Depending on the rest of the appliances in your house, you will probably need at least 1" pipe coming from the meter to the furnace. A tankless water heater usually takes 3/4" pipe inlet and uses approx. 200,000 btu while working. That is 2-3 times the gas as most of your furnaces.

Venting: Depending on the system you get, venting can be quite expensive, upto $40-$50/foot. It is best to have the tankless installed on an outside wall where the standard vent kits will be more than enough, and are usually included in the purchase price.

Plumbing: For the most part people will end up putting the new tankless in the same position as your old tank, or within a few feet of this. If this is the case there shouldn't be an extra charge. We include plumbing upto 6' from the current location, any longer will be extra.

There are several brands you can go with ie. Rinnai, Noritz, Navien, Bosch etc. I can get, sell, and install all of them but I suggest going with the Rinnai units. 85% of the units we install are the rinnai brand and they have been great, not 1 single problem so far. They come with a 12 year warranty on all parts and have amazing customer service.

With this much interest, I would be willing to set up ************************************

About the Eco audit. If you are only planning on doing a tankless in the next 18 months, it still makes sense to do the audit. I offer the service of bringing in an auditor at the same time as install to save you time ( you still pay for the audit, but I can arrange it). It will cost you $300 net for the two audits, and you will get $500 back, a net rebate of $200, better than nothing.

In regards to hard water: When we plumb these systems, we use special plumbing kits that allow for easy flushing of the system. It is suggested to do this once a year, but if you have hard water you can do this more frequently. Household Vinegar is what is suggested and works great.

Feel free to PM me with any questions and I will do my best to help you out.

Brian
************
************
brooklinheating@gmail.com

[brucered]

I'm sure everyone is already aware, but you need to be careful about expecting a refund with the new Home Renovation Tax Credit (HRTC).

The HRTC is a "Non-Refundable Tax Credit", which means that you CAN'T claim it if you are already expecting a refund. IE: it is only useful if you expect to owe money on your taxes next year.

Also, some of these gas instant-hot water tanks require a larger natural gas pipe be installed, which will also add to the cost.

you sure about that? that seems like discrimination to me. we always get a refund as we have kids, pay extra taxes and have lots of charitable donations. so because we give to charities etc, we won't get any extra back for our furnace?

[agiga]

I'm sure everyone is already aware, but you need to be careful about expecting a refund with the new Home Renovation Tax Credit (HRTC).

The HRTC is a "Non-Refundable Tax Credit", which means that you CAN'T claim it if you are already expecting a refund. IE: it is only useful if you expect to owe money on your taxes next year.

Also, some of these gas instant-hot water tanks require a larger natural gas pipe be installed, which will also add to the cost.

This is the first I've heard of this. Are you sure, this credit only applies to those who owe taxes vs. those who are getting a refund anyways?

[michelb]

I'm sure everyone is already aware, but you need to be careful about expecting a refund with the new Home Renovation Tax Credit (HRTC).

The HRTC is a "Non-Refundable Tax Credit", which means that you CAN'T claim it if you are already expecting a refund. IE: it is only useful if you expect to owe money on your taxes next year.

...

That's not how 'non-refundable tax credits' work. It just means that you'll get a refund credit for the amount AT THE LOWEST MARGINAL TAX RATE (e.g. 15% or something) and that will get applied to the taxes owing or refunded. E.g. a $500 non-refundable tax credit will give you $75 off your taxes.

[Netcruzer]

He's correct. the HRTC is a non-refundable tax credit. What a joke, for the amount of media coverage and advertising the HRTC is getting, it's become a marketing program to have people spend money on their house. Most of them, including me, will not get the tax credit if you usually get a tax refund. I'm still going to keep my receipts for stuff I buy for the house, but I'm glad I know about this now before I spend thousands thinking I'd get some back.

The Home Energy audit is a much better program, I just wish it had more than 18 months to do all the upgrades. At least with the fed and provincial energy audit grants I get money back, real money not tax credits. Unless you want to burst my bubble on this program too.

[kellidotca]

I've been going back and forth on this tankless this.. it's driving me crazy.. i currently have a hot water tank, rented, and only use about $40 a month in water..the tank is $10 a month to rent..

What i'd save compared to what i spend.. it'd probably cost me MORE in the long run.. although i did have my audit a year ago, so i have to make up my mind within the next few months.

I would like to own my tank outright.. but i have little incentive to do so considering it's just me using water =)

[999jam]

ok, so i got my tankless installed. i gotta say, it's really sweet. the install guy was wicked. he also did my furnace, a/c, hrv, and steam humidifier all in one install. 2 days. he explained the correct usage of the tankless to me. In order for it to work to it's fullest potential, you are supposed to set the temperature on the tankless to a temperature at which you can shower without using the cold. this is because, the use of the cold deminishes the water pressure. i seriously appreciated this guy and his apprentice. they took the time to answer all my questions and explain stuff to me while they were installing. i would highly recommend them to anyone living around the toronto durham area. http://www.naturalchoiceonline.ca/

[sc888888]

... both R53i and R85i could only provide 4 galon/min water flow...

The R53 can only deliver 3.1g/min as compare to the R85 can deliver 3.8g/min

Both perform same in winter! Why? because the water flow is limited by the natural gas supply. Both R53i and R85i require same min incoming gas pressure (15,000BTU).

15,000BTU is the MININUM gas requirement. When the unit is at full blast (i.e. shower running), the R53 needs 150,000BTU and the R85 needs 180,000 BTU. That extra 30,000BTU get you an bit extra water flow.

For people that consider installing a tankless heater, also get a UPS (a small 600VA should be sufficient). No power = No hot water does not matter how short is the outage.

[andrew-4ce]

He's correct. the HRTC is a non-refundable tax credit. What a joke, for the amount of media coverage and advertising the HRTC is getting, it's become a marketing program to have people spend money on their house. Most of them, including me, will not get the tax credit if you usually get a tax refund. I'm still going to keep my receipts for stuff I buy for the house, but I'm glad I know about this now before I spend thousands thinking I'd get some back.

I see nothing about this on the gov website:
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/bdgt/2...tn-eng.html#q4

[BushCaddy]

From the Canada Revenue Agency Website:
"The proposed HRTC is a non-refundable tax credit for work performed or goods acquired in respect of an eligible dwelling."

I couldn't find the definition on the CRA website, but from another Canadian site:
"A non-refundable tax credit can only be used to reduce federal or provincial/territorial taxes payable to zero"

Now, I'm no tax expert, and I could be wrong, but I read this to mean that you can't use this credit to increase the amount of your refund.

Obviously I'd talk to a tax advisor to be sure.

[andrew-4ce]

Booo! Looks like you are right!

[bubba308]

I had a tankless installed a year and a half ago and love it. Pros: never run out of hot water, saving of space in the furnace room, more environmentally friendly, monthly savings on gas (though I can't confirm that as we had our furnaces replaced at the same time). Cons: water takes slightly longer to heat up, you may not get hot water if it's not turned up enough (i.e. if the water flow doesn't cause the tankless to kick in), extra upfront costs, and no hot water if there is no power. My decision process was pretty easy as I was renting two tanks from Enbridge (about $30/month), and one of them died. When i called Enbridge to replace it, they said I had to get a new chimney liner for venting purposes because of new building codes. I had a guy come in and give me an estimate of $1,000 for the new chimney liner. We had a Rinnai installed and (touch wood) have had no issues. I remember when I was researching it a year and a half ago, I couldn't find any solid reviews of tankless heaters in general, and some reviews of the Bosch unit on Home Depot's site weren't so positive, but I can say that i have had no regrets since getting ours installed. Of course, outside of North America, these things are used all the time.

[vinaymal]

I'm sure everyone is already aware, but you need to be careful about expecting a refund with the new Home Renovation Tax Credit (HRTC).

The HRTC is a "Non-Refundable Tax Credit", which means that you CAN'T claim it if you are already expecting a refund. IE: it is only useful if you expect to owe money on your taxes next year.

Also, some of these gas instant-hot water tanks require a larger natural gas pipe be installed, which will also add to the cost.

OK Bushcandy .. let's not get carried away.

It doesnt work like this. Non refundable tax credit means that you cant get tax back that you havent paid in the first place. How much refund at the end of the year doesnt have anything to do with it. If you have income and have tax with-held at the source then you should be fine and will get a refund for this.