Food & Drink

Taste of the Danforth attendance - seriously?

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 16th, 2016 8:01 pm
Deal Expert
Feb 9, 2012
21709 posts
9002 upvotes
Toronto
LNahid2000 wrote:
playnicee1 wrote: Out of 1.6 million people, I doubt less than 100K gave an email, but it's too easy to show up more than once with a fake email just to get the "free stuff"
Really? You think more than 100,000 people gave an email when so many people already have Goodlife Memberships, and the Goodlife people are handing out memberships all over downtown? My point is that there are better ways to determine attendance than your Goodlife BS.
I think there's a lot more than 100k attending. Now go back and read this whole thing again.
Anybody can give an email of any sort (real or not) just to get the free stuff they were giving out.
It's those who said yes to the 7 day trial that count in, but I only brought Good life up as merely part of the potential evidence that more than 100k attendended.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Deal Fanatic
Jul 10, 2003
8086 posts
3870 upvotes
playnicee1 wrote:
LNahid2000 wrote:
playnicee1 wrote: Out of 1.6 million people, I doubt less than 100K gave an email, but it's too easy to show up more than once with a fake email just to get the "free stuff"
Really? You think more than 100,000 people gave an email when so many people already have Goodlife Memberships, and the Goodlife people are handing out memberships all over downtown? My point is that there are better ways to determine attendance than your Goodlife BS.
I think there's a lot more than 100k attending. Now go back and read this whole thing again.
Anybody can give an email of any sort (real or not) just to get the free stuff they were giving out.
It's those who said yes to the 7 day trial that count in, but I only brought Good life up as part of the potential evidence that more than 100k attendended.
Obviously there's more than 100k attending. It's easy to figure that our without involving Goodlife in any way (which would be useless as I said before since it's unlikely that 100k signed up for 7 day trials). Anyway, I'm done responding since you love to drag out these arguments all the time.
Deal Expert
Feb 9, 2012
21709 posts
9002 upvotes
Toronto
LNahid2000 wrote: Obviously there's more than 100k attending. It's easy to figure that our without involving Goodlife in any way.
aznnorth wrote: BS... that sham of a festival has been declining for years. Chinatown food festival has more visitors... certainly more tourists. I'd say 100k peeps at best.
Check and mate. Like I said, Goodlife is only one possibility for verification, in fact, here is what I originally said:

Only 100k?
I'm not sure if this helps any, but
I think someone from Good life should respond to this thread.
I'm not talking about the number of emails they got, since anyone can enter a fake email more than once.
I'm referring to the number of people who gave their proper id as they said yes to the 7 day free trial...
(it's not a true head count, but it might be a bit of a guide, hinting that x amount of a crowd said yes....if it's more than "100k" then you have more than 100k attending for sure...)
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 7, 2007
21266 posts
6251 upvotes
Poormond Hill
akira1971 wrote:
sandikosh wrote: Whoever is doing the maths, ain't doing it right. From Broadview to Donlands is about 1.06 miles or 5574 feet long. The width of the road is about 30 feet, giving the festival about 167,220 sq ft of space. If each person takes up 4 sq ft and the festival is jammed packed, then only 41,805 people can be there at one time. For them to get 500,00 per day, there will have to be a turnover of 12 with each person being there for less than an hour.
- I think your estimate for road width is way too low. Danforth is about 35-40ft wide (five lanes in some spots) plus another 10-12 feet sidewalk space. So overall width is closer to 55-64 feet across.
- Personally, I've never stayed more than 60 minutes at the festival (about 5 times over the last 20 years.) Seriously, by the time we've walked one end to the other, there really isn't that much else to do or see.

Given these parameters, the festival can peak at 2.67 million visitors so their estimate is definitely plausible.
I took 20 feet off for the stalls.
A life spent making mistakes is not only more memorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Aug 3, 2006
5351 posts
2459 upvotes
Lol Goodlife. I saw their booth at the Markham Metro Square food thing last weekend and I'd be surprised if they got even 100 people on their sales prospects list. The company has been really aggressive this summer in trying to get new sales. I'm asked regularly by the sales staff when I'm just walking in to get my friends to join in return for a free Goodlife branded t-shirt :P
Deal Expert
Feb 9, 2012
21709 posts
9002 upvotes
Toronto
Mulder and Scully wrote: Lol Goodlife. I saw their booth at the Markham Metro Square food thing last weekend and I'd be surprised if they got even 100 people on their sales prospects list. The company has been really aggressive this summer in trying to get new sales. I'm asked regularly by the sales staff when I'm just walking in to get my friends to join in return for a free Goodlife branded t-shirt :P
The free sunglasses @ TOD were all gone by Saturday, noon though...but to be fair, I have no idea how many pairs they had vs other things to give away anyway.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Deal Fanatic
Nov 1, 2006
9648 posts
3950 upvotes
Toronto
sandikosh wrote:
akira1971 wrote:
sandikosh wrote: Whoever is doing the maths, ain't doing it right. From Broadview to Donlands is about 1.06 miles or 5574 feet long. The width of the road is about 30 feet, giving the festival about 167,220 sq ft of space. If each person takes up 4 sq ft and the festival is jammed packed, then only 41,805 people can be there at one time. For them to get 500,00 per day, there will have to be a turnover of 12 with each person being there for less than an hour.
- I think your estimate for road width is way too low. Danforth is about 35-40ft wide (five lanes in some spots) plus another 10-12 feet sidewalk space. So overall width is closer to 55-64 feet across.
- Personally, I've never stayed more than 60 minutes at the festival (about 5 times over the last 20 years.) Seriously, by the time we've walked one end to the other, there really isn't that much else to do or see.

Given these parameters, the festival can peak at 2.67 million visitors so their estimate is definitely plausible.
I took 20 feet off for the stalls.
I doubled my estimated width from 10m to 20m and reduced the average stay to 1 hour but still only got 1.2m. In other words, using completely unrealistic figures, I still couln't get close to the claimed attendance figures.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 7, 2007
21266 posts
6251 upvotes
Poormond Hill
Jimbobs wrote:
sandikosh wrote:
akira1971 wrote:

- I think your estimate for road width is way too low. Danforth is about 35-40ft wide (five lanes in some spots) plus another 10-12 feet sidewalk space. So overall width is closer to 55-64 feet across.
- Personally, I've never stayed more than 60 minutes at the festival (about 5 times over the last 20 years.) Seriously, by the time we've walked one end to the other, there really isn't that much else to do or see.

Given these parameters, the festival can peak at 2.67 million visitors so their estimate is definitely plausible.
I took 20 feet off for the stalls.
I doubled my estimated width from 10m to 20m and reduced the average stay to 1 hour but still only got 1.2m. In other words, using completely unrealistic figures, I still couln't get close to the claimed attendance figures.
Did you also included the estimated 50,000 people waiting for it to start every day and the estimated 50,000 who stayed until the end of the day? Maybe you have to include the crowd who stayed all night after it ended?
A life spent making mistakes is not only more memorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
Deal Addict
Apr 28, 2004
1796 posts
332 upvotes
Jimbobs wrote: I doubled my estimated width from 10m to 20m and reduced the average stay to 1 hour but still only got 1.2m. In other words, using completely unrealistic figures, I still couln't get close to the claimed attendance figures.
Problem is, a small variation of your estimate for crowd density can drastically alter the final numbers. While people's "comfort zone" maybe 1 sq meter, that's definitely not the density level at this particular festival. It was almost impossible to move around with a stroller with our first kid, that we smartened up and used our Baby Bjorn carrier after we had our second kid. Overall, our family of four would easily fit inside the 1 sq meter zone and so would couples or families attending together. So using 1 person per sq meter is clearly too sparse - I would think 2-3 would be more appropriate with 4 being the max (unless standing in a food lineup where it could be higher.)

Also, the distance from Broadview to Donlands is only 1.8km (the festival itself says 2.5km course, I guess including side street stuff.) Using those numbers (1.8km, 20m, 30hrs) I get between 2.16 million and 4.32 million possible visitors.
Deal Addict
Apr 28, 2004
1796 posts
332 upvotes
Also, what is the point of overinflating the estimated visitors? Remember, there is a cost attached to the number of expected visitors. The city requires organizers to provide emergency personnel, restroom facilities, security, etc. based on those numbers. The higher you inflate, the greater the cost. So, for "bragging" rights, is it really worth it when this festival is already one of the biggest in Toronto?

As for someone mentioning charging vendors a higher fee based on the 1.65 million figure, it doesn't make sense. Most (if not all) vendors are professionals doing it for a long time. The know how much sales are expected based past experiences with similar festivals. So if their sales don't match up with expected results (because organizers inflated visitors), these vendors would not return the next year because for them, the sales didn't justify the cost. You might be able to fool the rookie vendor the first time, but most business people make decisions based on cost/benefits.

Lastly, you don't want sponsors/venders dropping out every year. It actually hurts the organizers. For example, the chinatown festival recently put out an RFP. In it, if you brought in a new sponsor, you get a 10% commission of the first year amount. With high annual turnover, you'd be force to pay the commissions on all of it, whereas, long-term sponsors you don't need to.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 1, 2006
9648 posts
3950 upvotes
Toronto
akira1971 wrote:
Jimbobs wrote: I doubled my estimated width from 10m to 20m and reduced the average stay to 1 hour but still only got 1.2m. In other words, using completely unrealistic figures, I still couln't get close to the claimed attendance figures.
Problem is, a small variation of your estimate for crowd density can drastically alter the final numbers. While people's "comfort zone" maybe 1 sq meter, that's definitely not the density level at this particular festival. It was almost impossible to move around with a stroller with our first kid, that we smartened up and used our Baby Bjorn carrier after we had our second kid. Overall, our family of four would easily fit inside the 1 sq meter zone and so would couples or families attending together. So using 1 person per sq meter is clearly too sparse - I would think 2-3 would be more appropriate with 4 being the max (unless standing in a food lineup where it could be higher.)

Also, the distance from Broadview to Donlands is only 1.8km (the festival itself says 2.5km course, I guess including side street stuff.) Using those numbers (1.8km, 20m, 30hrs) I get between 2.16 million and 4.32 million possible visitors.
Consider this: the biggest stadiums in the world have a capacity of 100 to 120,000 people. If you've ever been in the middle of a crowd like that, it is terrifying. When the crowd moves, you have little choice but to move with the crowd. Imagine being on the street with that same density of people around you.

Definitely exaggerated!
Deal Fanatic
Nov 1, 2006
9648 posts
3950 upvotes
Toronto
akira1971 wrote: Also, what is the point of overinflating the estimated visitors? Remember, there is a cost attached to the number of expected visitors. The city requires organizers to provide emergency personnel, restroom facilities, security, etc. based on those numbers. The higher you inflate, the greater the cost. So, for "bragging" rights, is it really worth it when this festival is already one of the biggest in Toronto?

As for someone mentioning charging vendors a higher fee based on the 1.65 million figure, it doesn't make sense. Most (if not all) vendors are professionals doing it for a long time. The know how much sales are expected based past experiences with similar festivals. So if their sales don't match up with expected results (because organizers inflated visitors), these vendors would not return the next year because for them, the sales didn't justify the cost. You might be able to fool the rookie vendor the first time, but most business people make decisions based on cost/benefits.

Lastly, you don't want sponsors/venders dropping out every year. It actually hurts the organizers. For example, the chinatown festival recently put out an RFP. In it, if you brought in a new sponsor, you get a 10% commission of the first year amount. With high annual turnover, you'd be force to pay the commissions on all of it, whereas, long-term sponsors you don't need to.
This is actually why I started wondering about this! The City now demands that all events have plans and projected attendance figures. As you say, the costs associated with large events are becoming significant. I think we will see organizers becoming much more realistic about their numbers to avoid these costs in the future.

Right now, the only rationale is to attract more vendors and/or sponsors as well as media attention.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 16, 2012
3280 posts
489 upvotes
Mississauga
I am sure there internal ways by organizers to check how many people walk through the festival, Ive gone almost every year and it seems like the festival gets the study crowds, i have to a lot of street festivals over the years and taste of Danforth is always the best organized and attended out of most of them.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 27, 2004
52935 posts
18144 upvotes
ONTARIO
LNahid2000 wrote:
playnicee1 wrote:
LNahid2000 wrote: Lol wtf? I think most people avoid the GoodLife people. What a terrible way to get a head count.
Like I said, if "100k" people do the 7 day trial, proper id and all, you automatically know it's more than "100k" that attended.
I'm merely responding to the "100k" comment.
Not necessarily. I biked to Foodland at Pape and Danforth on Sunday, bought some groceries, and then quickly left because Taste of Danforth is overrated. If I had signed up for a gym membership before I left, does this mean I attended the festival?
fellow local here in the leslieville area.. I had to wade through the crowds to head to my destination of pizzeria liberetto.
I was actually able to find a parking spot just south of Danforth and Pape... Its like a no fly zone... Yet people still go up. I was able to snag a good spot somehow.
Deal Fanatic
Sep 23, 2007
5654 posts
2168 upvotes
Regardless of the attendance record, Taste of the Danforth is one of my favourite food events in Toronto. I love the lively atmosphere. I don't go there for the food because Greek Food is easy to find any time of the day minus the line ups. All the times I've been there they didn't have anything unique that I can't get on the Danforth on a regular day. I don't even know why people bother lining up for the food. Wait 3 days and go on the following Monday and you can eat comfortably at a table, and arguably the quality will be even better since the cooks are not in a rush.

I love all the freebies that I can get. Sabra is there every year with their hummus. Also some other freebies and chance to get prices.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 23, 2008
3711 posts
633 upvotes
Toronto
A friend of mine runs a free music festival here in Toronto and they usually claim a higher number of attendees than actually attended to reach certain levels for sponsorships, grants and government funding.

It's pretty common practice amongst festivals.
Deal Addict
Mar 22, 2012
2151 posts
382 upvotes
Toronto
Wonderland gets about 3 to 4 million a year. Only an absolute idiot would believe they would reach those numbers.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jun 9, 2003
25310 posts
2536 upvotes
Markham, ON
johanscott wrote: Wonderland gets about 3 to 4 million a year. Only an absolute idiot would believe they would reach those numbers.
+1

the attendance guy is probably and ex Greece tax revenue budget accountant
Deal Expert
Feb 9, 2012
21709 posts
9002 upvotes
Toronto
johanscott wrote: Wonderland gets about 3 to 4 million a year. Only an absolute idiot would believe they would reach those numbers.
Wonderland at least has turnstiles to pass through. There is a counter that rotates as each person passes through.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Deal Addict
Mar 22, 2012
2151 posts
382 upvotes
Toronto
playnicee1 wrote:
Wonderland at least has turnstiles to pass through. There is a counter that rotates as each person passes through.
Yup. Wonderland with their large space, months of operations and ability to keep track of the individuals can't get 4 million people yet a 3 day festival will get nearly 1/2 of their attendance? Foolish for the organisers to think people would fall for that and people who believe that are idiots.

Top