Automotive

Tesla Ownership Experience (Car Talk ONLY)

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Deal Addict
Aug 12, 2007
4506 posts
2548 upvotes
Thornhill
Martin (deal addict) wrote: There may be benefits in constantly changing software (e.g. to improve stopping distance) but changing manufacturing of the body shell and omitting 300 welds is surely not something that should be done during manufacture within a model year for which crash tests have been performed, the results of which buyers are taking into account in making their purchase.
If those spot welds are part of the body safety structure, then it has to be retested. If no retesting is required, then those spot welds play no role in the safety body structure.
twitchyzero wrote: which other model gets spot welds reduced in the name of increased production output?
That's the thing - no one would report this "news" from other manufacturers.
For example, BMWs, Mercedes, Audi etc have mid life "face lift" or LCI for its models - do you know if they use more spot welds or less during this change for whatever reasons? Do people care?
Tesla also holds back its hardware's potential...ie: unlocking more usable battery capacity via OTA update to get people out of Hurricane Harvey or whichever disaster that hit Southern US a year or two ago
happens all the time in other industries but still doesn't make it any less absurd
In other countries, BMW has ConnectedDrive Store where you can activate extra features like intelligent voice assistance, remote services and remote 3D view, carplay, sharing navigation route and location with friends etc using iDrive Store with payment/subscription. This functionality is not available in Canada (BMW Canada does not yet have the updated system to support ConnectedDrive service). So all the hardware and software is in the car waiting to be activated.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 8, 2009
6237 posts
4777 upvotes
Ontario
nosnoop wrote: If those spot welds are part of the body safety structure, then it has to be retested. If no retesting is required, then those spot welds play no role in the safety body structure.
So does it need to be retested or not? If I order a Model 3 now will the published crash test results apply? What assurance do I have that it will perform in the same way with less welds?
Moderator
User avatar
Sep 21, 2004
11413 posts
7187 upvotes
Calgary
Martin (deal addict) wrote: So does it need to be retested or not? If I order a Model 3 now will the published crash test results apply? What assurance do I have that it will perform in the same way with less welds?
Judging on your posts, you are not ordering anytime soon. Better let those 420,000 reservation holders test it for you.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 8, 2009
6237 posts
4777 upvotes
Ontario
b166er1337 wrote: Judging on your posts, you are not ordering anytime soon. Better let those 420,000 reservation holders test it for you.
You are correct - but is my question not valid? The number of people who have reserved the right to order the car is irrelevant to my question surely?
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
23735 upvotes
Richmond Hill
b166er1337 wrote: Judging on your posts, you are not ordering anytime soon. Better let those 420,000 reservation holders test it for you.
Is it me or you have never found ONE negative thing about Tesla? What a joke. I’ve got a Porsche, BMW and Chevy and can easily list issues/negatives with each product.

Yeah I’m gonna say it again. That Musk kool-aid is something else.
Moderator
User avatar
Sep 21, 2004
11413 posts
7187 upvotes
Calgary
Martin (deal addict) wrote: You are correct - but is my question not valid? The number of people who have reserved the right to order the car is irrelevant to my question surely?
It is valid and it is also pointless. If those changes impact safety, I'm sure all the regulatory bodies will descend on Tesla like vultures. Like another poster said, no one else questioned when another automaker made midcycle refresh and whether those changes impact safety.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Sep 26, 2007
4156 posts
522 upvotes
b166er1337 wrote: Judging on your posts, you are not ordering anytime soon. Better let those 420,000 reservation holders test it for you.
elitist much?

c'mon you're on a moderator of this forum please act like one...when did any discussion on a public forum become exclusive to Tesla owners/soon-to-be owners?

valid but pointless? what the heck does that even mean? It's a legitmate concern whether or not they'd have to re-do crash testing...unless you're hoping the gov't make knee-jerk reactions only after there's been fatalities with kids involved in a highway crash?
nosnoop wrote: That's the thing - no one would report this "news" from other manufacturers.
For example, BMWs, Mercedes, Audi etc have mid life "face lift" or LCI for its models - do you know if they use more spot welds or less during this change for whatever reasons? Do people care?
read just above...of course people would care.

News flash: this Munro consulting firm doesn't only teardown Teslas...whether it would make for a bigger or smaller headline I don't know but let's not pretend it should just be swept under the rug...if I'm not mistaken most of mid-cycle refresh are cosmetic/mechanical...body is generally untouched

it's clear that this was done to save costs and to increase production output, not because they had to make minor redesigns to accept a larger transmission etc.
Russell wrote: We come here looking for deals. We use the savings on the things we buy to justify buying more things, thus filling our homes with tons of unnecessary consumer products. Such is the key to happiness.

Deal Guru
Sep 1, 2004
12900 posts
13103 upvotes
It doesn't matter. There is no official crash test performed on Model 3 yet by NCAP/IIHS/NHTSA. I'm sure if they can get their hands on one, they will. The later, the better.

Tesla got to be confident on skipping those welds. Could you imagine NHTSA removed 250K Model 3 off the road due to safety? Tesla will go bankrupt over night. They are not the 1st one to skip on over-engineering to save a buck. Germans has done that for years (I'm looking at you VAG!)

It's very simple guys, Tesla isn't a traditional car company. So it's going to ditch 100 years of manufacturing best practices and you will win some and lose some. There are plenty of properly built EVs to buy now that they are not the only game. Vote with your dollar.

The only reason this thread is fun is the fanboy cult of Tesla owners. It's just like poking at Apple fanboys. That said, iOS 12 finally caught up to a lot of Android goodness that I don't mind switching back to an iPhone next year.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Aug 7, 2007
4795 posts
3847 upvotes
GTA
b166er1337 wrote: Judging on your posts, you are not ordering anytime soon. Better let those 420,000 reservation holders test it for you.
What a great moderator.
Deal Guru
May 1, 2012
10538 posts
11427 upvotes
Toronto
This thread has a very low threshold for any criticism or concerns regarding Tesla.

Essentially, unless you are praising Tesla as the best thing since the wheel, then you are a hater and your questions/concerns are inconsequential, invalid, and pointless.

Apparently anything negative is "trash." I am going to have a talk with TomRFD.
Deal Guru
Sep 1, 2004
12900 posts
13103 upvotes
Anikiri wrote: This thread has a very low threshold for any criticism or concerns regarding Tesla.

Essentially, unless you are praising Tesla as the best thing since the wheel, then you are a hater and your questions/concerns are inconsequential, invalid, and pointless.

Apparently anything negative is "trash." I am going to have a talk with TomRFD.
I am kinda surprised how similar Elon and Trump is in this regard. Same with their followers.
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
23735 upvotes
Richmond Hill
twitchyzero wrote: elitist much?

c'mon you're on a moderator of this forum please act like one...when did any discussion on a public forum become exclusive to Tesla owners/soon-to-be owners?

valid but pointless? what the heck does that even mean? It's a legitmate concern whether or not they'd have to re-do crash testing...unless you're hoping the gov't make knee-jerk reactions only after there's been fatalities with kids involved in a highway crash?
read just above...of course people would care.

News flash: this Munro consulting firm doesn't only teardown Teslas...whether it would make for a bigger or smaller headline I don't know but let's not pretend it should just be swept under the rug...if I'm not mistaken most of mid-cycle refresh are cosmetic/mechanical...body is generally untouched

it's clear that this was done to save costs and to increase production output, not because they had to make minor redesigns to accept a larger transmission etc.
ADRiiAN` wrote: What a great moderator.
Yup this guy is a joke. If you read his replies he does nothing but belittle and hang off Musks nuts.

I’ve got nothing against Tesla and have said over and over again that they have been a positive impact in the industry. But the blind following is so unhealthy that it’s laughable here. We can’t even get a simple objective review here. All we get is “best car ever; building in tents is genius” :facepalm:
Deal Fanatic
Jan 8, 2009
6237 posts
4777 upvotes
Ontario
b166er1337 wrote: It is valid and it is also pointless.
This is becoming a case of the Emperor's new clothes.

Ether they were somewhat incompetent designing unnecessary welds in the first place (most likely) or incompetent omitting them to increase the production rate / adapt to "tent production constraints".

A refresh is typically new lights /nose job, rims. updated interior etc.
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
21392 posts
23735 upvotes
Richmond Hill
Martin (deal addict) wrote: This is becoming a case of the Emperor's new clothes.

Ether they were somewhat incompetent designing unnecessary welds in the first place (most likely) or incompetent omitting them to increase the production rate / adapt to "tent production constraints".

A refresh is typically new lights /nose job, rims. updated interior etc.
Yup I’ve never heard of a refresh that involved improving the chassis. That just means it was poorly engineered to begin with.
Deal Guru
May 1, 2012
10538 posts
11427 upvotes
Toronto
Tesla now ordered to stop "Critical Brake Test" that every other manufacturere does.

Elon Musk ordered Tesla engineers to stop doing a critical brake test on Model 3s

I get why they're doing all this, I mean they're scared senseless that if they don't meet their own numbers in Q2 then they're toast. But wow... skipping stuff like the aforementioned and this test is just asking for trouble later on.

So what has Tesla done the last couple weeks to prop up its Q2 results?
1. Allow a crapton of people to order M3s with no firm delivery date, causing a momentary uptick in revenue due to deposits (non-refundable).
2. Skip on hundreds of welding seams
3. Push robotics beyond factory specs
4. High turnover of employees, with new ones receiving 3 days of training before thrust into production lines
5. Stock is tanking

I guess those Q2 numbers better be really freaking good, cause they are trying really freaking hard.
Penalty Box
Jan 13, 2017
456 posts
367 upvotes
you forgot #6: built a tent and assembled cars manually (again) on a floor lift


Anikiri wrote: Tesla now ordered to stop "Critical Brake Test" that every other manufacturere does.

Elon Musk ordered Tesla engineers to stop doing a critical brake test on Model 3s

I get why they're doing all this, I mean they're scared senseless that if they don't meet their own numbers in Q2 then they're toast. But wow... skipping stuff like the aforementioned and this test is just asking for trouble later on.

So what has Tesla done the last couple weeks to prop up its Q2 results?
1. Allow a crapton of people to order M3s with no firm delivery date, causing a momentary uptick in revenue due to deposits (non-refundable).
2. Skip on hundreds of welding seams
3. Push robotics beyond factory specs
4. High turnover of employees, with new ones receiving 3 days of training before thrust into production lines
5. Stock is tanking

I guess those Q2 numbers better be really freaking good, cause they are trying really freaking hard.
Deal Guru
May 1, 2012
10538 posts
11427 upvotes
Toronto
MMMPower wrote: you forgot #6: built a tent and assembled cars manually (again) on a floor lift
Oh right, I forgot that. Gotta meet those numbers any way possible, even when current practices aren't sustainable.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2015
4373 posts
2499 upvotes
Calgary, AB
warpdrive wrote: no argument there. Niche and enthusiast cars like the MX5 will be the last cars that will transition to BEV if they ever do. I hope to see more enthusiast oriented BEV cars once the mainstream cars have been commoditized and in production in huge numbers. It will be an interesting transition for sure
I think there's going to be an (inverse) race between those sort of cars and large SUVs and Trucks. Despite all the fanfair about towing the Model X has it destroys their range. Towing a 1.5ton caravan/trailer halves the towing range (to around 120miles for the 100D, or potentially 80 miles in winter!). It'll be interesting when "consumer" vehicles for towing, hauling and working transition to BEV. Arguably they'll do so after relatively "simple" vehicles like the small sports cars, although it could be argued they are two sides of the same coin.

Both will have issues with weight, the small sports car overall GVW, the larger vehicles how many batteries that can reasonably fit in without making it way to heavy to tow or haul.
Deal Guru
Sep 1, 2004
12900 posts
13103 upvotes
Hypercars, are electrifying now. Just not any car that people frequent this forum can afford. :D

Yeah, Tesla is trying very hard for Q2 numbers. The Q2 call in Aug will be interesting.

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