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  • Jan 15th, 2018 11:12 am
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Deal Guru
Jan 7, 2002
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Simby wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 10:13 am
It was Cafe Linnea in Edmonton. They had to raise prices by 20% or something to pay the living wage. I assume they lost business and it wasn't sustainable so they went back to lower prices and tipping.
Thanks for the link. I think this underscores the problems with doing it piecemeal.

1. We have a sample of one. There are many reasons why, as the owner put it, "The restaurant industry is incredibly difficult as it is." Perhaps the cause of his struggle isn't related to lack of tipping and his restaurant will continue to struggle even after they go to conventional pricing and tipping.

2. People are innumerate. They look at menu prices, see that they're higher and go elsewhere, even though by not having to leave a tip their total out-of-pocket cost is the same.

3. People are also slaves to habit and culture. I suspect that more than a few felt compelled (shamed?) to leave a tip even if they didn't have to. This again would defeat the point of a no-tipping policy.
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Mar 28, 2005
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The discussion here is about tipping at restaurants (or food serving establishments)

What about tipping at other places?

There used to be an unwritten rule that one tips when receiving "personal" services, like
Barber
Hairdresser
Taxi
Delivery
Moving team
etc.
Member
Sep 8, 2006
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Edmonton
bylo wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 10:34 am
Thanks for the link. I think this underscores the problems with doing it piecemeal.

1. We have a sample of one. There are many reasons why, as the owner put it, "The restaurant industry is incredibly difficult as it is." Perhaps the cause of his struggle isn't related to lack of tipping and his restaurant will continue to struggle even after they go to conventional pricing and tipping.

2. People are innumerate. They look at menu prices, see that they're higher and go elsewhere, even though by not having to leave a tip their total out-of-pocket cost is the same.

3. People are also slaves to habit and culture. I suspect that more than a few felt compelled (shamed?) to leave a tip even if they didn't have to. This again would defeat the point of a no-tipping policy.
More details on the no tipping restaurant.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4272268
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Feb 8, 2009
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I have no issue with tipping though I feel that for whatever reason it’s become an expected entitlement for some servers. Deliver average at best customer service but still expect the 15%, 18%, 20% etc tip. I have never been a fan of those numbers either. I mean was it more work for you to take an order and deliver a $15 entree vs a $25 entree? No, but based on the tipping expectations that tip will be larger. Living in a tourist town I have a lot of friends that have worked in the industry as servers and trust me, many make significantly more than you would think. My brother in law is a management sous chef on salary at a high end restaurant and servers there make more than he does.
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Jul 15, 2003
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Simby wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 12:33 pm
More details on the no tipping restaurant.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/ ... -1.4272268
That's what i've heard before but now that i think about it i have a few questions.

What percentage of a restaurant's total income is from tips? (i don't mean the restaurant owner's share. I mean how much more did they bring in than was on all the final bills given to customers). Is it above or below 15%? And is the distribution a bell curve around the final amount or do a few massive tippers skew the results upwards?
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Well, for the waiters and waitresses tipping tends to more than double their income.

I have heard that several times from people who work in that industry and one can also deduce that from the comments in the CBC article:
Fox has worked as a server for seven years, including in fine dining, high-end restaurants where tipping made up most of his income.

"My employer paid for less than half of my total earnings," he said. "Most of the burden of my earnings was on the customer and thus didn't have to be reflected in prices."
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krs wrote:
Jan 10th, 2018 5:54 pm
Well, for the waiters and waitresses tipping tends to more than double their income.

I have heard that several times from people who work in that industry and one can also deduce that from the comments in the CBC article:
Yeah but in this case employee pay has no direct relation to restaurant total income.

Say an employee is paid $15/hour and works and 8 hour shift. that's $120. And say he gets $120 in tips. From his perspective he made 100% in tips.

If he served $800 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 15% in tips.
If he served $8000 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 1.5% in tips.
But in both cases the employee made 100% his salary in tips so his personal perspective information is not useful.

I was curioius to know what the total restaurant income tip percentage is.
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Feb 7, 2017
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Kevinck wrote:
Jan 11th, 2018 9:17 am
Yeah but in this case employee pay has no direct relation to restaurant total income.

Say an employee is paid $15/hour and works and 8 hour shift. that's $120. And say he gets $120 in tips. From his perspective he made 100% in tips.

If he served $800 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 15% in tips.
If he served $8000 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 1.5% in tips.
But in both cases the employee made 100% his salary in tips so his personal perspective information is not useful.

I was curioius to know what the total restaurant income tip percentage is.
Ya except the Restaurant doesn’t make any income in tips... the Servers / Bartenders do
And that differs by person
Person A averages 12% on a Midweek Lunch Hour Shift, while
Person B on the same shift makes 10%

Person A works more shifts in a week from Person B
But Person B mostly works the big money makers... Friday Night, Saturday Night Hockey, and Monday Night Football

So it’s going to be continually different
What staff is working
Also depending on the day, week, month
What’s going on ... Events wise, etc

You cannot figure it out...
you’d have to interview / track every Server / Bartender
even the Restaurants don’t know for sure...
Although they could probably guesstimate somewhat based on Electronic Tipping (Debit & CC Receipts)
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Kevinck wrote:
Jan 11th, 2018 9:17 am
If he served $800 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 15% in tips.
If he served $8000 in food then the $120 in tips was the restaurant bringing in 1.5% in tips.
But in both cases the employee made 100% his salary in tips so his personal perspective information is not useful.

I was curioius to know what the total restaurant income tip percentage is.
You just answered your own question - there is no way to figure that out and come up with a single answer.
It varies all over the map
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Feb 1, 2006
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How do you folks tip when you get served "freebies"?

For example,

I go to a restaurant with my spouse and I get a free $10 birthday entree. She orders a $10 entree. Do I tip based on $10 or $20?

Similarly, I pay $5 for a Swiss Chalet "Kids Coop" card that entitles my kid to 5 "free" kids meals. Do I include the kid's $6.95 value kid's meal in my tip or not?
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minimalist wrote:
Jan 11th, 2018 2:20 pm
I go to a restaurant with my spouse and I get a free $10 birthday entree. She orders a $10 entree. Do I tip based on $10 or $20?
The total value of the meals is $20 either way. The service you got is the same either way. So why does it matter whether some of the meal was complimentary?
Similarly, I pay $5 for a Swiss Chalet "Kids Coop" card that entitles my kid to 5 "free" kids meals. Do I include the kid's $6.95 value kid's meal in my tip or not?
Same argument. No matter what you actually paid for the meals, the same level of service was rendered so you should tip on that basis.

Again to be clear, I detest the notion of tipping. But it's not the server's fault that the system is as it is. Therefore we shouldn't take our distaste for tipping out on the servers by looking for reasons to short-tip them.
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Apr 5, 2010
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Regina
It's a fair question though, if you're tipping based on a bill total as most people do, does it make sense to figure it out based on the menu prices? The argument that you received the same level of service and should tip on that basis would refute a % based tip in general. Example, I go into a restaurant with my better half and we order modestly priced food and no alcohol, our bill comes out to say $50. Another couple nearby goes big and gets the most expensive menu items, and a couple of drinks, their total comes out to well over $150. Both tables received the same service, by your suggestion we should tip the same (be it we tip more or couple B tips less)?

To me the idea of % tipping is that it highlights the ability to afford. If you're using coupons and every advantage you can find to get your $20 meal down to $10, perhaps that means you can't afford/don't wish to afford the expense and as such will tip accordingly. So I don't see a problem with tipping based on your final bill total. Let those who can afford the $150 meal pay the difference.
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the_prairie_prophet wrote:
Jan 11th, 2018 3:50 pm
Example, I go into a restaurant with my better half and we order modestly priced food and no alcohol, our bill comes out to say $50. Another couple nearby goes big and gets the most expensive menu items, and a couple of drinks, their total comes out to well over $150. Both tables received the same service, by your suggestion we should tip the same (be it we tip more or couple B tips less)?
Yes, there are anomalies in the system. If you order a $100 bottle of wine you get exactly the same service as if you order a $25 bottle. Yet your expected tip is four times as much. It makes no sense. But that's how it is. Why take it out on the server when you should be talking to the restaurant manager about it?

But I do appreciate your point of view. Thanks for sharing it. After all tipping is supposed to be optional and the amount at the customer's discretion. Perhaps my point of view is just demonstrates that I'm a victim of another cleverly-applied form of tip shaming.
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the_prairie_prophet wrote:
Jan 11th, 2018 3:50 pm
Example, I go into a restaurant with my better half and we order modestly priced food and no alcohol, our bill comes out to say $50. Another couple nearby goes big and gets the most expensive menu items, and a couple of drinks, their total comes out to well over $150. Both tables received the same service, by your suggestion we should tip the same (be it we tip more or couple B tips less)?
Your example is both perfectly valid and potentially completely flawed as well which is what makes this system so infuriating.

Yes the server who brought your food to your table gave you the same service. But often they talk about how the tips are partially split out and also given to kitchen staff. And it's possible the kitchen staff had to put in over 5x the effort/service to make the $150 meal than they did to make the $50 meal. so if we were tipping for the amount of effort/work was done they $150 meal people should be tipping even more.

Alternatly the $150 could have been easier to actually make than the $50 meal. it just included a drop of refined truffle oil that costs $100/drop. And now we're back at a tipping confusion.
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Kevinck wrote:
Jan 12th, 2018 9:31 am
Yes the server who brought your food to your table gave you the same service. But often they talk about how the tips are partially split out and also given to kitchen staff. And it's possible the kitchen staff had to put in over 5x the effort/service to make the $150 meal than they did to make the $50 meal. so if we were tipping for the amount of effort/work was done they $150 meal people should be tipping even more.
Here's a further problem. What you tip gets shared between servers and cooks. Your experience is that the service was impeccable but the food was poorly prepared. Do you tip ~20% because of the good service or ~10% because of the poor food preparation? And if you average it out to ~15% how does the server know that you're pleased with the service but unhappy with the food preparation?

Yes, you can (and should) complain to management. However even if they send the food back or let you order something else, etc. your dining experience has been spoiled, especially if in a group or if celebrating a special occasion.
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