Shopping Discussion

Tip Shaming?

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Mar 9, 2012
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Sorry, what I meant by family run business, was literal. There is a difference between a family *owned* business, vs a family *run* business (which I what I meant in this context).

A family *owned* business hires employee's that are not family. The family isn't always, or usually, at the business during operation. If they are, they're usually barking orders at staff.

For example, I've done take-out at two businesses owned by a 'family'. In one case, the owner has about 45 employee's, front end staff, kitchen staff (clean-up, cooks, chefs, etc) as well as some contract workers (maintenance, etc). I could tip them, but I'd be tipping them simply for getting me the food. On one hand, these tips don't go to the owner (I know this because I have known the owner for about 25 years), but rather the front-end staff, with a tip-out to the kitchen staff. But most of the tip stays with the front-end. And really, they didn't do too much. The kitchen tip-out is only 10% (of the tip amount), so a $3 tip on take-out generates 30 cents for the kitchen staff that did all the work and $2.70 for front staff that did basically nothing. This place is a sports bar/restaurant.

Now, the family *run* business is owned by this family, their employees are all related, that is, their children, brothers/sisters/etc. No 'employees' per se. I will tip because it want the money to go to the family, to the owner, so the generous portions continue. But I am also OK if their kid simply keeps the money, though that might hard because it's not a cash tip. This place is Chinese, hence the preference for take-out here.

Places like chain restaurant, the food is usually questionable, taste-wise, portion wise. Not a lot of concern for their customer. And I'm not even sure where the tip goes. But some places, it goes directly to the chain. No thanks.

Off topic, but on topic. Went to a breakfast diner today...and this is Ontario. Their tip suggestion has changed; it now 18%, 26%, and 34%. Really? For a freaking breakfast diner? If they're that desperate for money, raise the freaking prices. Suggesting a minimum of 18%, which includes a tip on tax, is ridiculous. That minimum suggested tip works out to 33% at 18%, and 51% at 34%. Just wow. I guess they figure on a $14 breakfast (before tax), putting that 13% tax plus 35% tip isn't asking for much, as it works out to $21...no thx....what happened to the 12, 15, 18% days?
Why can't we all just get along?
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TomLafinsky wrote: What is the worse you have witnessed?
Someone putting a utensil into fat/grease. And it never happened again after that.
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I am (thankfully!!) out of the business, but I worked as a server/bartender for the better part of 20 years. I worked in places ranging from deli to fine dining and I've never -- not even once -- seen or even heard of a server or bartender sabotaging a customer's food or beverage. I'm not saying is doesn't happen (I won't deny the anecdotes above), but to suggest it's commonplace is ill-advised.

I never expected a tip when processing take-out orders, so I never tip on take-out today. As a server, it does hurt your income as you are often expected to tip out on your total sales including take-out, but most places that do a substantial take-out business will (or should) take that into account.

The line is getting a bit blurry these days with the "fast-casual" spots like Panera, Tosto, etc. The way I see it, if I have to walk up to a counter and place my order off a big menu board, then it's not really a tipping zone.

Lastly, when I do tip, I override the suggested tipping percentages and manually enter a dollar amount. Even as a former server, I agree the current recommendations are getting out of control. 34%?? You're out of your mind.
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Apr 19, 2017
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https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/c ... -waitress/

I have a personal cousin who worked at a regular restaurant type and she was bringing in $150 a night in tips alone. Friday Saturday make it $250. even 150, that's $3000 in tips ALONE if working a regular 20 day monthly schedule.

And the industry tip shames you because oh the poor people working as a waitress is struggling. Like it's the customer fault because the owners pay the employees minimum wage. Not to mention Canada's minimum wage is crazy higher than US where there eployees do rely on tips since apparently minimum wage can go as low as 5$.
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plans4canada wrote: https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/c ... -waitress/

I have a personal cousin who worked at a regular restaurant type and she was bringing in $150 a night in tips alone. Friday Saturday make it $250. even 150, that's $3000 in tips ALONE if working a regular 20 day monthly schedule.

And the industry tip shames you because oh the poor people working as a waitress is struggling. Like it's the customer fault because the owners pay the employees minimum wage. Not to mention Canada's minimum wage is crazy higher than US where there eployees do rely on tips since apparently minimum wage can go as low as 5$.
For the record... there are 5 US States with NO MINIMUM WAGE as legislated by the state
Employers pay what they please
These states are: Alabama - Louisiana - Mississippi - South Carolina - and Tennessee

5 States that have some of the highest black populations in America
5 States where Jim Crow was king
5 States with some of the highest rates of poverty in America

5 States with little intention of changing things for the future
If you grew up poor... you need to know YOUR PLACE at the bottom of the food chain

Canada’s Minimum Wage May seem crazy high because recent increases have come in large leaps & bounds
But in reality... the numbers merely reflect the cost of living
Canada is moving towards a LIVING WAGE... and away from Hiring people into jobs that still represent poverty wages

With that, should come the end of “begging for tips” ... the minimum wage will be the same for everyone... no two streams, of a low one for Service and a higher one for everyone else

Service Jobs are not 2nd class ... everyone should enjoy the same rate of pay starting out

Tipping is a hangover from post Slavery / Restoration era after the Civil War... it needs to go
Just like Jim Crow had to go

The LIVING WAGE average in Canada is ~ $ 15.00 (hence the recent legislation provincially to get there)

Interestingly, the Living Wage average in America, is also around the same $ 15.00 ... but BIG BUSINESS wants no part of it. They are constantly fighting govt for more tax relief / cost cuts for business, and less employee rights & benefits.

In reality... someone needs to look out for the comman man & woman
So a LIVING WAGE is where we should be headed... no one should be paid $ 2 or $ 3 an hour in 2018

It’s not just a hangover from Slavery in the mid 19th Century... but makes the working poor... full on slaves to their jobs / employer here in the 21st Century
Last edited by PointsHubby on Jul 13th, 2018 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dec 29, 2012
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plans4canada wrote: https://careers.workopolis.com/advice/c ... -waitress/

I have a personal cousin who worked at a regular restaurant type and she was bringing in $150 a night in tips alone. Friday Saturday make it $250. even 150, that's $3000 in tips ALONE if working a regular 20 day monthly schedule.

And the industry tip shames you because oh the poor people working as a waitress is struggling. Like it's the customer fault because the owners pay the employees minimum wage. Not to mention Canada's minimum wage is crazy higher than US where there eployees do rely on tips since apparently minimum wage can go as low as 5$.
Went to Gretzkys with work team, waiter brought 1 burger for me (we were all in a hurry), and they added a mandatory 20% tip - I should leave my job and go work there! It took him 1 minute to take my order, 4 minutes to pick up the plate and to put it on my table, and 2 minutes to take it away. No wonder the foodcourts are all so full, and the food fresher too.
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PointsHubby wrote: In reality... someone needs to look out for the comman man & woman
So a LIVING WAGE is where we should be headed...
A bit of a digression. Automation is killing and will continue to kill low-paying, menial jobs such as the service jobs that depend on tips. Increasing numbers of people who do/did those jobs will become unemployed. And increasingly these people will become permanently unemployed because they can't be retrained, they're "too old", etc. Today these folks eventually end up on welfare. That's not sustainable in the long run. As a society we need to find income replacement strategies for those folks as well. Raising the minimum wage, while it's one step, is not the only step. Unless, of course, we want to "compete" with southern US states for the lowest income and highest poverty rates on the continent.
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Catnippy wrote: Went to Gretzkys with work team, waiter brought 1 burger for me (we were all in a hurry), and they added a mandatory 20% tip - I should leave my job and go work there! It took him 1 minute to take my order, 4 minutes to pick up the plate and to put it on my table, and 2 minutes to take it away. No wonder the foodcourts are all so full, and the food fresher too.
Did that show up on their menu? I could not find any reference on their online menu.
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screw social norms. I still pay 10%.
Why should i pay 15 or 20% for a job you're getting PAID to do?! If you do a good job, sure, i'll tip 15% other than that.. no thanks!
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad." :-0
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rcmpvet wrote: Did that show up on their menu? I could not find any reference on their online menu.
It's pretty normal for places like this to have a mandatory service charge for large groups, though it should be listed in their actual menu at least and/or informed on booking.
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rcmpvet wrote: Did that show up on their menu? I could not find any reference on their online menu.
Don't know, we were all chatting and I just picked something listed "big" on their menu which has items scattered over the page in different size fonts (would prefer a regular format which is easier to read).
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Manatus wrote:
It's pretty normal for places like this to have a mandatory service charge for large groups, though it should be listed in their actual menu at least and/or informed on booking.
Catnippy wrote: Don't know, we were all chatting and I just picked something listed "big" on their menu which has items scattered over the page in different size fonts (would prefer a regular format which is easier to read).
I know it is normal, however, unless it is posted and easily found or I am told before I always refuse to pay a "Mandatory Service Charge".
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Sr. Member
Aug 3, 2007
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Montreal QC canada
Sorry but i had a guy from subway try to ask for a tip. I told him have you ever tried getting an other job?. I bust my A** daily and would and will never get tipped upon the extra stuff i do daily that's not even on my to do list. I work too damn hard for my money to have someone beg for my money. Then recently at mcdonalds after i ordered 2 trios that costed me 22$! someone asked me if i wanted to add a % of tip. I said are you out of your mind?. With those kinda prices you can bet i will not even leave you a single cent.

The only time i leave a tip :
If i go eat supper and the person brings plates and is with us more than 30 mins for sure i will tip depending on the service and attitude. Even then it depends. I will never really leave what they set out to be the standard. 15% why is that? or 10%. Who decides that. I'd sure love an extra 10% on my daily routine.
Bottom line we shouldn't feel ashamed or bad if we don't leave a tip. They chose this job. It's never too late to change jobs. I don't feel bad about it.

I remember when i was a kid my dad used to leave lots of money on the table i used to take it back home to buy some toys my dad used to laugh. Which basically is what they do or ask you to do when you think about it :)
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Ryo_hazuki wrote: Then recently at mcdonalds after i ordered 2 trios that costed me 22$! someone asked me if i wanted to add a % of tip
WTF?

Since when are McD employees allowed to accept tips, let alone beg for them?

My understanding has been that this is against company policy, at least for counter service. (There are McDs with table service. Google suggests that even they aren't supposed to get tips.)
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bylo wrote: WTF?

Since when are McD employees allowed to accept tips, let alone beg for them?

My understanding has been that this is against company policy, at least for counter service. (There are McDs with table service. Google suggests that even they aren't supposed to get tips.)
Surprise to me too.

VIRTUALLY No Tipping

Certainly was that way for decades...

I say “virtually”. Cause when my kids worked there, Mgmt told them that tips were a BIG NO NO ... take any personally, and on the spot fired

Any tips left by the Customer went into the cash register = more money for McDs Corp

Know some Cashiers said to Customers “Don’t tip me, I cannot accept tips... but if you feel you must, please give to the McDonalds Charity... the container is on the counter over there”

Feeling was... many employees would rather see the money go to kids in need, than into the till and directly into the pockets of the Corp / Owner who were already way richer than most Cdns, they did not need to make even more money off the backs of the working poor
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Oct 5, 2012
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Please excuse my ignorance but do waiters in Canada get paid below minimum wage (I assume to be $15) due to the existence of tipping? I've never personally worked in said jobs, know people who did or even heard people complain about waitressing to really know this was an issue in Canada.
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Audra2202 wrote: Please excuse my ignorance but do waiters in Canada get paid below minimum wage (I assume to be $15) due to the existence of tipping? I've never personally worked in said jobs, know people who did or even heard people complain about waitressing to really know this was an issue in Canada.
In most Cdn Provinces & Territories there is the General Minimum Wage, and then various other groups that get paid below that rate with Other Minimum Wages (Waiters, Students, Other Service Workers etc)

Here is the link that outlines the situation in each region across Canada

https://www.retailcouncil.org/quickfact ... y-province

And as your locator says BC... here is the current situation in BC

$ 12.65 = General Minimum Wage as of June 1, 2018
$ 11.40 = Liquor Servers Minimum Wage as of June 1, 2018

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/empl ... nimum-wage

Canada is not only moving towards a Standard Minimum Wage by Province & Territory that eliminates the Service Industry / Others Minimum Wage (and hence the tipping / begging culture associated with it)...
but is actively wanting to go to a Minimum Wage that is actually based on the Average Cost of Living... known as a Living Minimum Wage, that based on 40 Hours of work per week would allow someone enough money to provide the basics of life (Accommodation, Heat, Utilities, Food)

This is known as the Living Wage Movement

The current Average in Canada is $ 15 per hour... higher in some parts of the country, a tad lower in others.

And $ 15 is the benchmark that every province in Canada is moving towards to begin the process of enacting a Minimum Wage based on a Living Minimum Wage.

http://www.livingwagecanada.ca

Metro Vancouver & Metro Toronto (as examples) are much higher, due to the cost of housing... so in those cities, under the new Living Wage, legislation would be in place so that instead of it being say $ 15 per hour it would be $ 20.62 and $ 18.52 respectively*

This legislation first happening for Municipalities own hiring policies... and then hopefully catching on in the community

http://www.livingwagecanada.ca/index.ph ... -movement/

Anyhow, the whole idea of the Living Wage is to work towards eliminating poverty in Canada. There are just too many people who are the working poor. And the gap between rich & poor is widening every year. As Canadians we recognize that and want to fix it... I think some of that is because of our climate (being poor and cold & hungry here... or homeless here, is far more dire than it is in the likes of New Orleans, LA). We also in general are a far more “fair minded” society with us already having nationalized medical care etc. We just believe that there should be some basic quality of life that all Cdns should have.
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Catnippy wrote: Went to Gretzkys with work team, waiter brought 1 burger for me (we were all in a hurry), and they added a mandatory 20% tip - I should leave my job and go work there! It took him 1 minute to take my order, 4 minutes to pick up the plate and to put it on my table, and 2 minutes to take it away. No wonder the foodcourts are all so full, and the food fresher too.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's quite common for restaurants to add mandatory tips for groups. It's usually specified somewhere.
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PointsHubby wrote: Feeling was... many employees would rather see the money go to kids in need, than into the till and directly into the pockets of the Corp / Owner who were already way richer than most Cdns, they did not need to make even more money off the backs of the working poor
It may look that way, but they could have been instructed to do this. What happens at the end of the chain is that the company generates goodwill by their "foundational" charitable donations that were actually given directly by customers, and likely get a tax credit for it as well.
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mbg wrote: What happens at the end of the chain is that the company generates goodwill by their "foundational" charitable donations that were actually given directly by customers
Is there anything wrong with that? I'd rather the money went to a charity than into some "tip pool" that gets disbursed in some unspecified manner. In any case, in this situation "tipping" is entirely voluntary. There's no shaming or other manipulation (e.g. CC terminals that offer 15%, 20% or 25% tips) as there often is with conventional tipping. That's progress in my book.
and likely get a tax credit for it as well
That part is an old myth that won't die: According to Philippe Brideau, spokesperson for CRA, “A registered charity can only issue an official donation receipt to the actual donor, the individual or organization that made the gift. If a lump sum is donated without detailed (individual) donor information, the charity will not be able to issue any receipt.”
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