Shopping Discussion

Tip Shaming?

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 16th, 2024 1:55 pm
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
1925 posts
488 upvotes
YVR
krs wrote: How long ago was that when you worked in a restaurant? I think times have really changed.
Times may have changed, but it is the same job.
How would you even know if a restaurant uses a preset tipping percentage ahead of time, or even after you are seated?
That only shows up at the end, after the meal when you get your bill.
Uh, the menuThinking Face or the server would have explained.
Newbie
Dec 16, 2015
23 posts
15 upvotes
Lower Woods Harbour,…
Tipping is stupid and I hate it.


Who do you tip? The waitress. Why? All she does is bring you food. She wouldn't have **** food to bring if it wasn't for the kitchen. Why does the kitchen get no tips? They're the ones doing all the work. Some places now split tips with the kitchen, but not enough places, or at shit rates (kitchen gets %10 of tips).


Tipping is stupid because 1) you're tipping the wrong **** people 2) people should be paid a living wage for the work they do to start with 3) it creates greed and expectations. I used to work at Tim's, I did NOT deserve a quarter for handing you a coffee. After a while a grew to expect it though, it's weird and I hated it. Any waitress that tip shames is in this mentality. I couldn't imagine telling someone the free money they gave me wasn't enough, good god.
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Jan 7, 2002
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Waterloo, ON
doberman_baby wrote: Uh, the menuThinking Face or the server would have explained.
Especially with a group. The server needs to explain the restaurant policy before taking orders. That includes not only mandatory service charges but also whether or not they'll take orders on separate tabs or split the bill afterwards, etc.
krs wrote: How would you even know if a restaurant uses a preset tipping percentage ahead of time, or even after you are seated?
That only shows up at the end, after the meal when you get your bill.
Worse is the usual scam where the bill shows a percentage service charge has been added, but then there's another line item for a tip and the CC terminal also asks for a tip. The restaurant hopes you miss the service charge and reflexively tip another 20%.

There ought to be a law that prohibits this scam. Let's call it the "Nipping Double Dipping Tipping Act." ;)
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Mar 28, 2005
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doberman_baby wrote: Times may have changed, but it is the same job.
Exactly, it's the same job but the expectations as to the amount of the tip are going up and up.
Uh, the menuThinking Face or the server would have explained.
The menu or the waiter will explain the preset tip option before you even order?
I have never ever seen that happen.
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Mar 28, 2005
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bylo wrote: Worse is the usual scam where the bill shows a percentage service charge has been added, but then there's another line item for a tip and the CC terminal also asks for a tip. The restaurant hopes you miss the service charge and reflexively tip another 20%.
The "justification" you will get is that one is a "service charge" and is mandatory and the other is a "tip" and is voluntary.
And the preset percentages are there for the customer convenience so the customer doesn't have to struggle to calculate some percentage (and be embarrassed in front of his date)

Then of course there will be the surcharges if you like a booth instead of a table, or a table with a view, or a table not next to the washroom, or seating in the VIP section, or priority food service...all sorts of opportunities to make an extra buck!
Think of the airlines, I just booked a few flights to Europe and they charge you extra for a whole raft of things that used to be included in the ticket price.
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Jan 7, 2002
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krs wrote: The menu or the waiter will explain the preset tip option before you even order?
I have never ever seen that happen.
It's common in my experience, both in Canada and the US, especially at sit-down chain restaurants. Here's an article from almost a decade ago: Should You Worry? - Hidden High Gratuity Service Fees Charged By Dishonest Restaurants Means Bad Business. Google will find many others.

Occasionally the notice will say that the charge is discretionary and that if you want to adjust it just ask the server. Another variant is that an xx% is charged to groups of 6 or more.
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Jan 21, 2008
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krs wrote: Is the restaurant business really so low margin and so cut throat that they have to try tactics like that to stay in business?
I hardly think so.
They don't offer an identical product to the consumer like a retail store often does where one can do valid price comparisons.
Yes, margins in the restaurant are absolutely so low & cut throat, they fail more than any other type of business. Even restaurants that get consistently good reviews often find it tough (eg rent too high or is going to increase a lot, increased labour cost (min wage went from $11-$14 overnight, increased food cost). Having said that, what this restaurant did is absolutely unacceptable, if true. I have a feeling the waitress just made that up, but who knows.
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Feb 16, 2013
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HP_John wrote: Yes, margins in the restaurant are absolutely so low & cut throat, they fail more than any other type of business. Even restaurants that get consistently good reviews often find it tough (eg rent too high or is going to increase a lot, increased labour cost (min wage went from $11-$14 overnight, increased food cost). Having said that, what this restaurant did is absolutely unacceptable, if true. I have a feeling the waitress just made that up, but who knows.
I come to Canada to open Shwarma restaurant or cell phone case shop. Business is tight...
....
Jr. Member
Nov 26, 2017
133 posts
109 upvotes
I usually tip 10% pre-tax. This means 9% post-tax. I refuse to be guilted into paying more, since this whole thing is a scam. Restaurants sometimes even impose a mandatory service charge 18%+ and ask for tip on top of that! Not to mention, they try to make tips be calculated post-tax.

You don't have to be honourable if the other party isn't.

In Hong Kong, there's a less tipping culture (there can be service charge still) and in most other countries in the world, there is no tipping culture.
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Feb 15, 2005
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chimaican wrote: 20% 25%???? This is Popeye's we're talking about. Last time I checked it was a fast-food chain. They hand you the food and you make your way out the door or to their dinky little table. How about 0%?
I feel shame in punching in 0%, so I pay cash. Astonished Face
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Jan 31, 2007
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resan wrote: I was at a Restaurant Barbecue Tonight in Mississauga where there was automatic 15% service charge added. I can accept that if I like the service and food but when paying the waitress gave me tip % options. I asked isn't it already added in service charge. She explained that's the charge reserved for restaurant, waiters get no tip from it. I was skeptical whether she was lying or really the restaurant has gone so crook these days. Is it the new norm now in this industry? While I sympathize with the waiters working there I couldn't justify another 15% on top of already overpriced items and service fee. Big thumbs down for that Restaurant from me.

I can confirm something like this happen. Happen to me once. We went out for a dinner , 10 people.
The restaurant already added 18% on our bill. We did opened many bottle of wine that night, and ordered many starter, dessert, etc on top of our main, so it is kind of big bill.
I recall the bill is approx $2000 after the 18% and Tax.
BUT the server give us the machine and ask us to select 20%, 25%, 30%. tip.
We where like, Wasn't we already got charge 18%???

She told us the 18% is "Service charge" from the restaurant, NOT a Gratuity.
We ask for the manager, and he told us YES, the 18% is restaurant's SERVICE FEES, not Gratuity, Gratuity is on top of that.

We ask then why we got charge for the 18% "Service Fees"? He go on to tell us that's because it cost them MORE to serve a table with big group, so they need to add service fees for party of 6 and above.
and he go out to "SUGGEST" because we are big group, he recommend 25% on that $2000 for Gratuity.

We told him, No, we are not going to do it, and tell our server, sorry, if you don't like this, you should just find another restaurant,m PLUS, we will NEVER come back to this place again.
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Bright side of RFD: Often find good deal
Dark side of RFD: Tons of stuff that I don't need but still got them because of RFD
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Jan 31, 2007
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Anyone notice some terminal program has changed recently?

In recent month, I notice 2-3 times, the CC payment terminal has changed, and I notice the label on the machine is something "Cashxxx" can't remember clearly, but for sure start with "Cash".
It doesn't show % of tip I want to pay, Instead it show me "AFTER TIP" amount, and it already have "DEFAULT" amount pre-selected for me.

So let say my bill is $130.75 It will show like this:

After Gratuity amount:
$156.90
Tap or insert your card to accept this amount

$163.44
$169.98
Other Options

If I put in my card or tap at this point , I pay the Bold amount.

If I press other options, it will show me 20%, 25%, 30% and "More options"

if I press "More options", it doesn't let me put in the % I want to pay (I always pay 10% after tax amount, so is like 12% before tax).
It only let me put int $ value of the tip. So I can put in $13 here.

what a crazy setup,
******************************************************
Bright side of RFD: Often find good deal
Dark side of RFD: Tons of stuff that I don't need but still got them because of RFD
******************************************************
Deal Expert
Jan 7, 2002
29583 posts
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Waterloo, ON
cheapshopper wrote: I can confirm something like this happen....
So on top of menu prices and HST they want 18% plus 20% compounded? A $100 tab plus HST is $113. Add 18% to get to get $133.34. Compound 20% on top of that to get $160. So the restaurant expects a minimum(*) of 160/113 ~=42% in tips/service charges. This is a ridiculous cash grab. It needs to be stopped before it too becomes "the industry norm."

Would you please name the restaurant. This is something that should be taken to the media, e.g. the CBC. If the industry can tip-shame us then we should tip-shame them.

(*) Added: or 160/100 = 60% on the before-tax amount which is the traditional way to calculate tips until the industry started programming terminals to calculate the percentage on the after-tax amount.
Last edited by bylo on May 22nd, 2019 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Deal Expert
Jan 7, 2002
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cheapshopper wrote: what a crazy setup,
Yet another subterfuge to overcharge the unsuspecting.

Folks, it's war out there. Fight back.
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Mar 28, 2005
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bylo wrote: So on top of menu prices and HST they want 18% plus 20% compounded? A $100 tab plus HST is $113, Add 18% to get to get $133.34. Compound 20% on top of that to get $160. So the restaurant expects a minimum of 160/113 ~=42% in tips/service charges. This is a ridiculous cash grab. It needs to be stopped before it too becomes "the industry norm."

Would you please name the restaurant. This is something that should be taken to the media, e.g. the CBC. If the industry can tip-shame us then we should tip-shame them.
I agree with you - this is getting totally ridiculous.

I was also wondering about this statement:
We ask then why we got charge for the 18% "Service Fees"? He go on to tell us that's because it cost them MORE to serve a table with big group, so they need to add service fees for party of 6 and above.
How exactly does it cost a restaurant MORE to serve a table with a big group?
I would think just the opposite - there is profit on each appetizer, entrée, dessert, drink, wine etc., so the more of these items are purchased, the more the total profit from that table.
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Feb 18, 2016
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cheapshopper wrote: I can confirm something like this happen. Happen to me once. We went out for a dinner , 10 people.
The restaurant already added 18% on our bill. We did opened many bottle of wine that night, and ordered many starter, dessert, etc on top of our main, so it is kind of big bill.
I recall the bill is approx $2000 after the 18% and Tax.
BUT the server give us the machine and ask us to select 20%, 25%, 30%. tip.
We where like, Wasn't we already got charge 18%???

She told us the 18% is "Service charge" from the restaurant, NOT a Gratuity.
We ask for the manager, and he told us YES, the 18% is restaurant's SERVICE FEES, not Gratuity, Gratuity is on top of that.

We ask then why we got charge for the 18% "Service Fees"? He go on to tell us that's because it cost them MORE to serve a table with big group, so they need to add service fees for party of 6 and above.
and he go out to "SUGGEST" because we are big group, he recommend 25% on that $2000 for Gratuity.

We told him, No, we are not going to do it, and tell our server, sorry, if you don't like this, you should just find another restaurant,m PLUS, we will NEVER come back to this place again.
Wow you is cheap shopper but not cheap restaurant eater
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Dec 1, 2003
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Buggy166 wrote: With minimum wage at $15 there should be $0 tip.
That's a whole other debate. When minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of living (rents, food, etc), and it goes up way more than the 'raise' you got when minimum wage went up. This is why I'm not in favor of increased minimum wage. It gives people making minimum wage a false impression that they're making more money, but when the cost of all the other increases are factored in, they're making less.

Want to make more money, get a better education and/or a better job. Simple as that.
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Jan 7, 2002
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najibs wrote: When minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of living (rents, food, etc), and it goes up way more than the 'raise' you got when minimum wage went up.
Can you cite a source [link] to evidence that proves this claim?
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Oct 23, 2008
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cheapshopper wrote: She told us the 18% is "Service charge" from the restaurant, NOT a Gratuity.
We ask for the manager, and he told us YES, the 18% is restaurant's SERVICE FEES, not Gratuity, Gratuity is on top of that.

We ask then why we got charge for the 18% "Service Fees"? He go on to tell us that's because it cost them MORE to serve a table with big group, so they need to add service fees for party of 6 and above.
and he go out to "SUGGEST" because we are big group, he recommend 25% on that $2000 for Gratuity.

We told him, No, we are not going to do it, and tell our server, sorry, if you don't like this, you should just find another restaurant,m PLUS, we will NEVER come back to this place again.
I support you 100%

How is a service charge not an automatic gratuity? It does not make it any harder to service a larger table then it is a group of smaller tables, especially with computers.
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