Shopping Discussion

Tip Shaming?

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Messerschmitt wrote: So what entitles a waiter to get tips but not taxi, concierge, even fast food? Are they not all doing their job?

I swear, it's like waiters get protection money. If they don't get tip spit, or worse, will get in your food, so you are so scared that you pay the protection mo... ahem... tip.

So starting a few months ago I have stopped giving ANY tips to waiters. 9/10 are just doing the bare minimum of "Can I get you drinks/what would you like to order/does it taste good/would you like desert or check". I will rather tip the barber, bell boy, altough they are also paid to do their job
So what entitles a barber/bell boy to your tips?

Also I sincerely hope you told the waiters before you ordered that you won't be tipping them because of XYZ reasons, but I've a funny feeling you didn't.
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arkane wrote: So what entitles a barber/bell boy to your tips?

Also I sincerely hope you told the waiters before you ordered that you won't be tipping them because of XYZ reasons, but I've a funny feeling you didn't.
Why would I? Are they not suppose to do their job? Why do I have to tell them before? So that if I don't pay the extortion fee aka tip I can expect some spit or worse in my food?
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Messerschmitt wrote: Why would I? Are they not suppose to do their job? Why do I have to tell them before? So that if I don't pay the extortion fee aka tip I can expect some spit or worse in my food?
Well I would've hoped for someone feeling so righteous about it, and with an actual rational reason for not tipping to boot, that you'd feel comfortable being open with your view on tipping. But of course this is RFD so who am I kidding lol.

Also a theme I see in this thread is people complaining about how easy being a server is and how they're making loads of tips for not doing much. Well this goes both ways, anyone with a pulse can get hired as a server, and the barrier to entry is literally none. If you think it's such a lucrative job, you're free to switch jobs and rake in the mad dough lol.
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arkane wrote: Well I would've hoped for someone feeling so righteous about it, and with an actual rational reason for not tipping to boot, that you'd feel comfortable being open with your view on tipping. But of course this is RFD so who am I kidding lol.

Also a theme I see in this thread is people complaining about how easy being a server is and how they're making loads of tips for not doing much. Well this goes both ways, anyone with a pulse can get hired as a server, and the barrier to entry is literally none. If you think it's such a lucrative job, you're free to switch jobs and rake in the mad dough lol.
There is nothing rational in this world.

Servers get 20%+ in tips for less than 5 minutes of service/interaction and for just doing their job they get paid minimum wage. No wonder they pull 300-400$ in tips alone in a single shift. Yet someone who delivers you food is lucky to get $2 even if you ordered $50 worth of food, which is heavier and must be brought in at once, then they have to pay their petrol, car maintenance, etc.

Children die in Africa, but many in the west will donate money to some random celebrity on TV or internet for a simple ******** request "need moneyz for new bike lol".

People are sheep. This tipping, especially in the service industry got ingrained in their minds, both customers and servers too. And the servers are now seeing these tips as entitlements. As something they must receive no matter what they do
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Messerschmitt wrote: There is nothing rational in this world.

Servers get 20%+ in tips for less than 5 minutes of service/interaction and for just doing their job they get paid minimum wage. No wonder they pull 300-400$ in tips alone in a single shift. Yet someone who delivers you food is lucky to get $2 even if you ordered $50 worth of food, which is heavier and must be brought in at once, then they have to pay their petrol, car maintenance, etc.
There's absolutely nothing stopping you or anybody else from getting a job as a server. The barrier to entry is ZERO, if you have a pulse and the bare minimum social skills, you'll get hired. Instead of frothing at the mouth, why don't YOU go become a server if the job is as lucrative as you describe?
People are sheep. This tipping, especially in the service industry got ingrained in their minds, both customers and servers too. And the servers are now seeing these tips as entitlements. As something they must receive no matter what they do
So, since you feel so indignant and in the right about it, be a man and state that publicly to a server IRL instead of to a random stranger on an internet forum. Gotta love it when people are full of righteousness online, but then completely whimper out IRL.

Bottom line: if you truly believe what you think, then stand behind it and don't back down. Otherwise you're just another cheapskate looking for excuses to justify not tipping someone.
Last edited by arkane on Aug 16th, 2019 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Messerschmitt wrote: So what entitles a waiter to get tips but not taxi, concierge, even fast food? Are they not all doing their job?
Is it a rhetorical question or is it just another troll?
Messerschmitt wrote: People are sheep. This tipping, especially in the service industry got ingrained in their minds, both customers and servers too. And the servers are now seeing these tips as entitlements. As something they must receive no matter what they do
Hello Moral Police, I'd like to hang out with you and hear you insult people :)))))
Give me a J. I'm a maniac and an African expert.
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arkane wrote: There's absolutely nothing stopping you or anybody else from getting a job as a server. The barrier to entry is ZERO, if you have a pulse and the bare minimum social skills, you'll get hired. Instead of frothing at the mouth, why don't YOU go become a server if the job is as lucrative as you describe?



So, since you feel so indignant and in the right about it, be a man and state that publicly to a server IRL instead of to a random stranger on an internet forum. Gotta love it when people are full of righteousness online, but then completely whimper out IRL.

Bottom line: if you truly believe what you think, then stand behind it and don't back down. Otherwise you're just another cheapskate looking for excuses to justify not tipping someone.
Why do I need to state anything publicly? I just don't tip (servers, I tip delivery, barber). Easy and straightforward.

Are you working in the tipping industry or have relatives who do? Because you sure act like one
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Messerschmitt wrote: Why do I need to state anything publicly? I just don't tip (servers, I tip delivery, barber). Easy and straightforward.
Already answered in the last sentence you quoted.
Are you working in the tipping industry or have relatives who do? Because you sure act like one
I'm salaried and exempt, no relatives in the tipping industry. Guess that makes me a sheep lol.
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arkane wrote: Already answered in the last sentence you quoted.



I'm salaried and exempt, no relatives in the tipping industry. Guess that makes me a sheep lol.
It does, because there is no reason why you would feel such a strong need to tip the waiter but don't even bat an eye to tip the mcdonald person who is preparing your food and taking your order.
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Messerschmitt wrote: It does, because there is no reason why you would feel such a strong need to tip the waiter but don't even bat an eye to tip the mcdonald person who is preparing your food and taking your order.
Yes because the two are totally comparable. Tell you what, when the McDonald's person starts bringing me my food to the table, tops up my drinks and takes away my dishes, and handles any complaints I have about the food and sends it back to the kitchen iwhen necessary, I'll consider tipping.

And before you repeat your "they're just doing their job" argument again, let me quote you this:
Messerschmitt wrote: Yet someone who delivers you food is lucky to get $2 even if you ordered $50 worth of food, which is heavier and must be brought in at once, then they have to pay their petrol, car maintenance, etc.
Messerschmitt wrote: Why do I need to state anything publicly? I just don't tip (servers, I tip delivery, barber). Easy and straightforward.
These people are all just "doing their jobs", why do you feel some deserve a tip and others don't? The delivery driver deserves a tip because the heavy food increases their gas consumption and wear and tear? Lmao gimme a break. They knew that when they signed up for the job, so why do they deserve to get tipped for just doing their job, the downsides of which they were fully aware of before signing up?

Likewise with the barber, they're just doing their job cutting your hair, why do they deserve to be tipped? Are you concerned they might mess up your hair if you don't tip? Sounds awful lot like an extortion fee doesn't it?
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arkane wrote: Yes because the two are totally comparable. Tell you what, when the McDonald's person starts bringing me my food to the table, tops up my drinks and takes away my dishes, and handles any complaints I have about the food and sends it back to the kitchen iwhen necessary, I'll consider tipping.

And before you repeat your "they're just doing their job" argument again, let me quote you this:





These people are all just "doing their jobs", why do you feel some deserve a tip and others don't? The delivery driver deserves a tip because the heavy food increases their gas consumption and wear and tear? Lmao gimme a break. They knew that when they signed up for the job, so why do they deserve to get tipped for just doing their job, the downsides of which they were fully aware of before signing up?

Likewise with the barber, they're just doing their job cutting your hair, why do they deserve to be tipped? Are you concerned they might mess up your hair if you don't tip? Sounds awful lot like an extortion fee doesn't it?
Your entire reply is based on an incorrect notion, that the server gets the tips. This is incorect. When you are leaving a tip at a restaraunt you are tipping everyone, not just the server. You are tipping the hostess, the bartender, the busboys, the cooks, the dishwasher etc etc etc.

This is standard practice within the industry, EVERYWHERE you go. The only exception where you may find this doesn't happen is some small family run restaraunt, where mom/dad are the cooks, the son/daughter are the waiters and Grandma/Grandpa are everything else.

Servers are required to tip out a certain % of their sales each night based on their sales volume, regardless of a tip being left or not. That tip out can be as little as 4% to as high as 9%. So when you run up a $100 bill and leave zero tip the servers would pay out $5 of that to the other staff even if no tip is left if their tip out is set at 5%. That 5% gets split up between the cooks, dishwashers, busboys, hostess, bartenders etc because everyone contributed to your entire enjoyable experience, not just the server.

The cooks, cooked the fod you enjoyed, the bartender made the drinks you enjoyed, the busboys dishwashers etc kept the palce clean etc etc etc.

As someone who has been in this industry their entire life, first as a cashier, then as a server, then manager and now owning almost a dozen locations I can guarantee you with 100% certanty this is how the industry works and has worked for years. I have even provided links in this thread to major chains and their tip out policies because some who posted in this thread were unaware this is how the industry works.

I can also guarantee you that you are an outlier if you think leaving a tip in a tip jar is "uncommon"

Your entire arguement about not tipping at a fast food place but tipping at a sit down restaraunt is based on flawed thinking/information and invalidates your entire argument
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HghSsociety wrote: Your entire reply is based on an incorrect notion, that the server gets the tips. This is incorect. When you are leaving a tip at a restaraunt you are tipping everyone, not just the server. You are tipping the hostess, the bartender, the busboys, the cooks, the dishwasher etc etc etc.
Sure, but none of those exist at a fast food joint. Or at least, no dishwasher in the traditional sense. So if I tipped, I'd just be tipping the cashier the cook, and the janitors.
I can also guarantee you that you are an outlier if you think leaving a tip in a tip jar is "uncommon"
Never mentioned anything about tip jars
Your entire arguement about not tipping at a fast food place but tipping at a sit down restaraunt is based on flawed thinking/information and invalidates your entire argument
*sigh*

The point was, at a sit down restaurant, I'm paying for the privilege of not having to do anything myself apart from making requests, and that's what differentiates it from a fast food joint. So in essence I'm paying for a different (and from my POV, more enjoyable) "experience". If fast food joints became more sit-down restaurant like and vice-versa, then I'll adjust my tipping habits accordingly. What happens behind the scenes with the tips is none of my concern, and I'm not going to adjust my tips based on this new information. So no, I don't believe this to be relevant to my rationale of tipping at sit-down restaurants, or conversely, NOT tip at a fast food joint.
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arkane wrote: Yes because the two are totally comparable. Tell you what, when the McDonald's person starts bringing me my food to the table, tops up my drinks and takes away my dishes, and handles any complaints I have about the food and sends it back to the kitchen iwhen necessary, I'll consider tipping.

If you don't want to tip because you find the "experience" more enjoyable at a sit down restaraunt and "different" than at Mcdonald's then don't tip, but don't confuse the "experience" with the actual work being done as both places are doing the exact same thing, albeit in a different manner.

McDonalds vs a sit down restaraunt:

-Both places will take your order
-Both places will cook your food
-Both places will bring your food to your table
-Both places will take away your dishes
-Both places have people that clean the restaraunt non stop
-Both places have someone who will deal with complaints and send your food back to the kitchen

Do you tip at a buffet?

I thought you were referencing the tip jar, must have been someone else.
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arkane wrote: So, since you feel so indignant and in the right about it, be a man and state that publicly to a server IRL instead of to a random stranger on an internet forum. Gotta love it when people are full of righteousness online, but then completely whimper out IRL.

Bottom line: if you truly believe what you think, then stand behind it and don't back down. Otherwise you're just another cheapskate looking for excuses to justify not tipping someone.
Speaking for myself here this is a silly argument. I don't eat out at restaurants to virtue-signal the servers. I go to enjoy food and time with friends.

'Be a man' lol.
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HghSsociety wrote: Your entire reply is based on an incorrect notion, that the server gets the tips. This is incorect. When you are leaving a tip at a restaraunt you are tipping everyone, not just the server. You are tipping the hostess, the bartender, the busboys, the cooks, the dishwasher etc etc etc.
Those people don't exist in a fast food restaurant? There are no cooks to prepare the food, no tables to get bussed, no dishes to wash(*), nothing needs cleaning, etc?

So why should customers be expected to tip at conventional restaurants but not at fast food restaurants?

Do fast food staff (cooks, cleaners, etc.) get paid higher hourly wages than they do at conventional restaurants because they don't get a share of tips?

(*) e.g. at places like Timmies where you get coffee mugs if you eat in or Panera where you get crockery and cutlery when you eat in and often the meals are delivered to your table.
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Wow this is a thick thread. I guess when you delve into the details there are plenty of arguments on both sides.

My stance? I tip 15% for standard service.
What that means is on the CC machine, to get 15% I will enter 13% (tipping on tax).

If I get bad service then I usually tip 10%, great service 20%.

I'd welcome a change in tipping expectations to the lower end. Maybe things can change one day
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How much does someone earn in a restaurant with table service compared to someone working in a fast food restaurant?
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cardle wrote: How much does someone earn in a restaurant with table service compared to someone working in a fast food restaurant?
Right now...

Most places in Canada / NA, there is a 2 level minimum wage.
A Standard Minimum Wage, and a Service Minimum Wage *
The Service Minimum Wage is LOWER than the Standard Minimum Wage

* Service Minimum Wage definition can differ in some locations by who is paid this rate
Sometimes it’s everyone working in Service (Restaurants, Bars, Chambermaids, Cabbies, Porters, Nannies, etc)
In other places it only applies to those who work in Restaurants, or serve Liquor

It’s easy enough to find out all the info on wages for any Province / Territory in Canada or State in the USA
(There are 5 States in the USA, who have not ratified the US Federal Minimum Wage Law ... so essentially there is NO Minimum Wage at all in those Southern Stares... all former confederate states, they are: Alabama - Louisiana- Mississippi - South Carolina - Tennessee)

In Ontario... as it seems that most RFDer are from this Province
Those rates of pay are divided along the lines of Liquor Service
The Standard Minimum Wage today is $ 14.00
And the Liquor Service Minimum Wage is $ 12.20

https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-gu ... nimum-wage

So ya...
In Ontario... the McDonalds Employee will get $ 14.00 an hour
And the system will be designed so there are also annual performance reviews & raises

The Restaurant Server, who makes $ 12.20 an hour
Will probably forever only make the Service Minimum Wage
As most employers don’t pay out raises
They believe that tips are what drives the employee to perform better

McDonalds has a long history of not allowing their employees collect any sort of tips
And IF TIPS are indeed left for an employee the money belongs to the store ... and goes into the cash register, and gets recorded as regular revenue
(This was drummed into myself as a College Student working at McDs many moons ago, and was also told to my kids when they worked there years later ... I doubt anything has changed. Keeping Tips was considered stealing. And a fireable offence)
Because of this policy, most cashiers had their own policy of directing generous customers to give their tips to the McD’s Charity Jar in the store ... feeling at least their kindness would do some good to other less fortunate folks, than just go directly into the coffers of the mega-billions corporation

Where things also differ between the 2 industries is those paid the lower $ 12.20 Wage
Are also expected to share their tip money with others who work in the Restaurant
Many of whom... are making MORE THAN they are ... because their jobs are classified as Standard Minimum Wage jobs
So not just ... the BarTenders (who also makes $ 12.20)
But also those that Bus the tables, the Hostess, the Cooks
And even, in some places Mgt, or the Owners

What the 2 places DO HAVE IN COMMON
Is that neither have a good record of providing benefits to their employees
Because either the employee chooses to work just a few hours a week
(Which is all fine and good as it is an employee choice)
Or in many cases, the restaurant chooses to only schedule an employee who is available for full time hours... Part time hours
So they don’t have to offer / pay any sort of benefits

So most people employed in service
Work pay cheque to pay cheque
Hour by hour
With no benefits
And no chance of improving their earning potential in these jobs
And society clearly shows that for the most part that service jobs remain the domain of the
Young, the old, students, the under educated, single mothers, the mentally handicapped, the new immigrant, and people who are visible minorities

That’s what’s wrong with the system
In so much as it has no intention of change from within (by the Industry)
And the working poor ... people who work in these jobs just don’t make enough money to live on
In many instances, the working poor = living in poverty

And that’s what’s wrong
One should be able to work
At a reasonable minimum wage, 40 hours a week
And be able to provide for oneself enough to live on
(the Living Wage movement = http://www.livingwagecanada.ca/ )
Currently that is not happening
So the current structure effects ALL OF US

Like I have said elsewhere in this thread
This is all a bad hangover from the Victorian era
And the world after the civil war ended slavery & indentured Service
But all the Reconstruction Era did was make those “marginalized” put into a position of begging for a wage to live on
(Tips for services performed ... vs real wages for a job done with dignity)

If society can pay McDs employees the Standard Minimum Wage of $ 14.00 an hour
Then every restaurant out there, can also do the same
And tipping can disappear entirely

BUT ... the reality is the Restaurants have it cushy right now
And so they don’t want to change things
They encourage their employees to echo that message
By putting fear in them that a raise in wages means ,.. less tips for them
Or worse... less job security as costs go up
What they don’t tell them is as employees if they had a set living wage, they would be better off cuz they wouldn’t have to tip pool, and many would actually qualify for benefits etc
Cuz alongside the changes in wages
Would also come some regulation in regards to how these businesses have been hood winking their employees in regards to their rights
( No more would Mgt be able to skim off the top of the tip pool for example ... or eff around with hours & scheduling ... so they’d just schedule some employees an hour or two short each week of the legal requirement for full time employment benefits etc)

Or my all time favourite
When places that do this
Shut down their operation entirely (McDonalds, WalMart etc)
Where those making minimum wage have educated themselves on their rights
And try to form a union
And then these big corps just shut it all down ... so they don’t have to deal with worker rights at all

This crap would all stop

And minimum wage workers
The working poor in our society
Many of them “stuck” in these jobs with little room with improvement
Cuz of their social circumstance
Could at least make an honest buck, for honest work
And at the end of the day have enough to live on

NOTE - The stories of folks making a ton of money in the Service industry
Are for the most part ... just tall tales
Sure there might be career waiters in a fancy hotel or steakhouse making a decent living for an employee who gives them full time (40 hours) employment a week.
But they hardly represent even a tiny percentage of all those employed in service
And besides IF the stories had any true merit
Then we’d ALL aspire to work in service the rest of our lives
Than look at the White collar jobs of Doctors, Dentists, Lawyers, Accountants, High Tech etc as the jobs to have for long term ongoing stable incomes

I liken the stories of Service wealth
To fools gold
Someone passing off something shiny as valuable
But in the end it’s just rock hard reality

Someone though needs to hold the Snake Oil Salesman accountable for his words / deeds
In how his misleads & manipulates it all taking advantage of those less fortunate in our society
(The young, the old, students, the under educated, single mothers, the mentally handicapped, the new immigrant, and people who are visible minorities)
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Alberta has minimum wage $15 across the "table"
BC will have minimum wage across the table too by 2021, 15.20
I would've thought ON would've reached that state too, but I don't care. Don't live there and wouldn't want to live there in the most bankrupt province along side quebec. What's the debt now? Did it reached 400 billions yet?

My cousin was working in a regular restaurant chain "think earls, montana, etc" and was cashing in 200-300$ a shift (4-6hrs). And this was several years ago before the new 18-25% craze that restaurants are trying to shove down the throat in magazines or POS terminals. And I've heard my fare share of stories similar to my cousin.

Bottom line, it's my money and I've decided to put a stop to this craze a few months ago. All you are more than welcome to make up for my and everybody else's share who also decided it's time to put a stop to this.

Fast food workers make it due with minimum wage. Store workers make due with minimum wage. So let me play the world's smallest violin for the servers (that was a good movie)

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