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The Toronto Blue Jays/MLB Thread

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Nov 12, 2003
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SoGood wrote: burnett was pretty good last year when healthy...
keywords: when healthy. You can't just base hope on a new season that AJ will 'be healthy'.. I mean.. even Doc is injury prone when it comes to line drives hit at him.
ok lets say we did get lilly for 10 million, we would be paying about 6 million more for the same type of performance we got this year.
what is funny is that what Lilly is making.. makes JP a genious to sign AJ last year. The market, like i mentioned, states that a .500 pitcher now gets 10 million dollars. so say we don't spend that extra 6 million.. who do you want to pick up for 4 million? You sure ain't getting a pitcher like Mesche or Lille.
and where did we finish? 2nd in the east?...
and theres no guarantee that lilly would be better than last yr...and from past years it wouldn't indicate that he would be better.
you are wrong . This is not counting on Lilly being better. It's counting on Lilly remaining at status quo. If Lilly were to improve, he'd be a 18-19 game winner.

there is one guarantee.. he will win 1/2 his games 90% of the time. It's certainly a lot better than throwing Josh Towers out there every 5 days.
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Feb 23, 2005
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TSN.ca's article on the Meche signing says:

"Free agents Jeff Suppan and Mark Redman are on the club's Plan B list of free agents."

I like Suppan and would like to see him in T.O., but I still think the likely option will be dealing for pitching
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spike-spiegel wrote: I hope Wells re-signs and then JP can make some shrewd trades for pitching. Maybe deal some outfield prospects since Jays have Synder, Lind, Patterson all looking very MLB capable. If unable to re-sign Wells, trade him now. White Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Angels, Marlins seem to be suitable with pitching and need for a outfielder.
If we trade Wells, we need him in the NL.. less chance of him haunting us.
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Mar 17, 2004
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Does anyone have any information on Mulder? I know he has history of injuries. But this is one guy that I wouldn't mind gambling on, if the price is right. He'd probabyl command in the neighbourhood of what Lilly got, and maybe a tad more. Still, I'd be interested to bring this guy in
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rdtx2002 wrote: If we trade Wells, we need him in the NL.. less chance of him haunting us.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... LB&id=2893
The Dodgers are showing interest in acquiring Vernon Wells for the Blue Jays.
Los Angeles could offer Brad Penny, Matt Kemp and potentially more, though just those two seems like an awfully high price to pay for one year of Wells. If the Jays deal Wells, they could put Reed Johnson in center field for a year and go with Adam Lind in left.
If JP can get Penny AND Kemp, I'd say do it in a heart beat without any hesitation!
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Jun 28, 2003
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Oakland does it (getting into the playoff last year)

Minnesota does it

Detroit does it

All *small* market teams with possibly smaller budgets than the Jays.

We are not here to break the bank, i know it's not easy competing with the Joneses i.e. Yanks and Bosox but it's not impossible.

Now it's time to J.P. and Gibby to show us that they are what some of you guys think they are or if they are simply middle of the pack type of guys.

I am already paying a lot more for my Internet and cable services with Rogers but I am willing to stick it out to support my team but there comes a point where you have to ask: So what's next ?
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Feb 23, 2005
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canabiz wrote: Oakland does it (getting into the playoff last year)

Minnesota does it

Detroit does it

All *small* market teams with possibly smaller budgets than the Jays.

We are not here to break the bank, i know it's not easy competing with the Joneses i.e. Yanks and Bosox but it's not impossible.
Differences is those 3 teams aren't in the AL East, so they play the Yanks/Sox less then 10 times a year most of the time whereas we play them close 20 times each
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Mar 21, 2002
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NDman wrote: If JP can get Penny AND Kemp, I'd say do it in a heart beat without any hesitation!
But why load up on young outfielders when Jays seem to be deepest in that position on the farm level?

I don't think Penny has the stuff to pitch well in the AL. There is a reason he is the odd man out in LA now.


I think JP mentioned that he feels neither Suppan and Redman are that suitable for Jays needs. Plus, they will come overpriced as well. JP said trades might be the route to get pitching now. But who for who? Jays aren't exactly loaded with prospects.
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Jul 12, 2006
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i would rather see them trade then to get a pitcher who's only .500 and pay them roy halladay money imaigne how much halladay would command...easily 25 million
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rdtx2002 wrote: keywords: when healthy. You can't just base hope on a new season that AJ will 'be healthy'.. I mean.. even Doc is injury prone when it comes to line drives hit at him.
players are always going to be injured, what can you do?...just gotta roll with
the punches
rdtx2002 wrote: what is funny is that what Lilly is making.. makes JP a genious to sign AJ last year. The market, like i mentioned, states that a .500 pitcher now gets 10 million dollars. so say we don't spend that extra 6 million.. who do you want to pick up for 4 million? You sure ain't getting a pitcher like Mesche or Lille.
despite the holes in our pitching staff, we most certainly can't get a 3 or 4 starter with that money but i definately wouldn't spend that much on a middle of the rotation guy even if that is what the market is going for, so why not let our young guys play...and use that money for other purposes...i.e. re-signing wells.
rdtx2002 wrote: you are wrong . This is not counting on Lilly being better. It's counting on Lilly remaining at status quo. If Lilly were to improve, he'd be a 18-19 game winner.

there is one guarantee.. he will win 1/2 his games 90% of the time. It's certainly a lot better than throwing Josh Towers out there every 5 days.
resigning a guy at market value but 6 mill more than what we paid him last yr just to be status quo???...am i the only one that thinks there something wrong with that?...spending more to be at the same level??...i'm aware that holes need to be filled, but not at that price.
and he wouldn't necessarily need to win more games, he just needs to give the offense a chance to win it since we do have one of the most potent offenses in the game.
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Mar 23, 2005
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It's crazy what mediocre pitchers are able to command.
Meche (mediocre) - $11m/year.
Lilly (mediocre) - $10m/year.

I doubt that anyone on this board will make $10 million in their entire working lives!
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SoGood wrote: players are always going to be injured, what can you do?...just gotta roll with
the punches
man.. thank god you ain't running the team and JP is... we'd be in last place next year with your kind of attitude.
despite the holes in our pitching staff, we most certainly can't get a 3 or 4 starter with that money but i definately wouldn't spend that much on a middle of the rotation guy even if that is what the market is going for, so why not let our young guys play...and use that money for other purposes...i.e. re-signing wells.
what is the goal of the team?.. why did the Jays sign Stairs and Frank Thomas?.. just to show them to the fans but at the time not compete for the playoffs?.. what message are you bringing to the fans? that you want to hit, hit, hit and have the fans PRAY 60% of the time that the young pitchers will actually make it through 6 innings?

Money is available when needed, Ted Rogers is not afraid to spend money.. why are being a penny-pincher now?.. the Jays were not shy to get BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett last year and Frank Thomas this year.. are you suddenly saying the Jays will be gunshy to resigning Vernon Wells?

gimme a break.
resigning a guy at market value but 6 mill more than what we paid him last yr just to be status quo???...am i the only one that thinks there something wrong with that?...spending more to be at the same level??...i'm aware that holes need to be filled, but not at that price.
and he wouldn't necessarily need to win more games, he just needs to give the offense a chance to win it since we do have one of the most potent offenses in the game.
you are at least hoping he maintains the level of status quo, then you know money is well spent.. look in the case of BJ Ryan.. did he improve his save numbers? only my 2 saves.. does that justify the millions extra he is getting?.. the money he is getting.. maybe he should be getting 50 saves a year no questions asked... you mainly sign for the status quo and hope they get better because that is what you are expecting.. you don't sign for them to be worse.

You sign Ted Lilly hoping that he does not taper off of his production and any 'extra' he gives you will be a bonus. how hard is this to understand?.. you are clearly missing the point time and time again.

and you don't think that this 'potent' offense could squeeze maybe 3-4 more wins off Ted Lilly?.. assuming that he starts 32 games... he'll win at least 16.. add to the fact that you hypothetically can squeeze 3-4 extra because of 'offense'.. that is 18-19 wins for a 3rd starter... WOW.. a 3rd starter on a staff that gets 18-19 wins.. wouldn't you want that?

Doc gets his usual 17-19, AJ the question mark.. lets mark him for 16 wins.. and Ted with 18-19 (because of offense), Chacin is good for 15 win... you see what i'm getting at here?

now i know that all i'm talking is hypothetical.. just think of it without the money in question.. this ain't your money.. ain't my money.. i don't care if they are overpaid.. ALL of them are overpaid.. as long as they help the team.. that is what is important.

now the Jays have 1 Allstar pitcher, and 2 questionable pitchers.. and 2 BIG HOLES in the rotation.
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Mar 21, 2002
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gordholio wrote: It's crazy what mediocre pitchers are able to command.
Meche (mediocre) - $11m/year.
Lilly (mediocre) - $10m/year.

I doubt that anyone on this board will make $10 million in their entire working lives!

I can't believe Meche signed for more than Lilly. Royals really broke the bank on that one. Jays and Cubs were up to 4/$40 for him and Royals just blow them away with a 5/$55.

Meche is no AJ Burnett... and people were saying JP was crazy last year. Same with Ryan, with no top flight closer this year, Ryan could have gotten a lot more.

Luckily those are both locked down with Halladay. Only in MLB baseball can $10,000,000 buy you mediocrity.
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Feb 23, 2005
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[QUOTE]Royals ink Dotel to $5M, one-year deal

Reliever Octavio Dotel and the Kansas City Royals reached a preliminary agreement Friday on a US$5-million, one-year contract. [/QUOTE]

After years of playing badly, it seems like the Royals now want to overpay for mediocre/bad players

And the A's replaced Thomas with..

[QUOTE]
Piazza agrees with A's

LAKE BUENA VISTA, Florida (Ticker) -- After a 15-year career in the National League, Mike Piazza has decided it's finally time to live it up as a designated hitter in the American League.[/QUOTE]
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...after signing Meche the Royals dropped Runelvys Hernandez ... a guy who has shown some ability at times. Might be a bit of a stretch but he would not be a costly addition to the club and at 28 he still might have some upside potential. Some confidence building was all it took for Doc, and I'm sure Runelvys would benefit from being on the same staff as Doc ... I might be willing to take a flyer on this guy considering the risk/reward ratio and the clubs' desperate need for pitching.
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The Royals singing of Meche can only mean one thing. At the trade deadline, he will be expendable for young prospects for the Royals.
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Buddy Bell calls J.P. a *little man who whines too much*

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Baseba ... 3-sun.html

Still scratching my head on why the Jays needed to get into a bidding war over Gil Meche. Jim Rome today said *It's Gil Meche, it's not Roger Clemens or Barry Zito*. Can't say I didn't agree with Rome

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