Real Estate

Toronto is a city where even the ‘rich’ can’t afford an average-priced house

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 21st, 2017 10:39 am
Jr. Member
Jun 24, 2011
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West Lafayette, Indi…
Chickinvic wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 4:19 pm
With a $225K annual income, in any normal housing market they would easily be able to do so. It is the super inflated markets like Toronto and Vancouver that would make it hard.
A 1.5M house today is equivalent to $800K house in 2010, based on monthly mortgage payment. So the true cost of housing hasn't really gone up much.
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May 31, 2007
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Chickinvic wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 9:57 am
Maybe they were paying off student loans, etc.? Maybe they haven't been earning that kind of money for long. There's lots of reasons they could take years to save 100K.
Very good point. To earn an annual income of 225k (one person), I would expect they are some sort of high income professional. (that requires a post secondary education)
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Chickinvic wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 4:21 pm
Since you don't even live here, why are you so interested in a Canadian website and forums? I'm sure you don't need to listen to any whining wherever it is you are located. You seem to have a lot to say for someone who has checked out of Canada.
Because you people make me laugh.

In 2010 I bought a condo and documented that event in a very popular thread which I started (real estate crash, yes, no, maybe).

The amount of abuse I got from whiny privileged Canadians was comical considering I am not even rich. People wished me to die slowly and painfully... just because I bought a condo, lol. Here we are 7 years later and I just checked some sold units on real market watch..,..500k for 1 bedroom in Fort York out of all places. So, to answer your question....I post here because it feels great knowing I live in a third world country with an asset in the first world country that keeps growing.
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Oh man that was the best thread ever, Mrbeachman, Dearsummer, Mark77 (pitz). Such an epic, never ending discussion with bears and bulls. Was so disappointed some of those posters were banned..
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Jungle wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 5:05 am
Oh man that was the best thread ever, Mrbeachman, Dearsummer, Mark77 (pitz). Such an epic, never ending discussion with bears and bulls. Was so disappointed some of those posters were banned..
People could learn a lot from that thread if they read it again. One guy sold a house in Markham at below asking (I think 500k or so) and said prices in his area are going down. Now all he can afford at that price is one bedroom condo.

The other guy made a point about Montreal being in bubble and asking why the hell are prices the same as Toronto when vacancy rates in Montreal are high. This was actually an excellent point. I have been telling you people that prices of real estate in third world countries are higher than Toronto and there could possibly be no crash if Toronto is lagging behind in prices. The weak Canadian dollar is just making those Toronto prices even cheaper and Toronto as a major city where most people want to live is still very cheap comparing to where most immigrants come from. They can sell their property back home and buy for cash in Canada which they have been doing since forever.

In 10 years Toronto will be 2000 per sqft in downtown core.
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Jan 5, 2003
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Jungle wrote:
Mar 18th, 2017 12:29 am
I would say they are 1% earners, look at this: (2K away from 2014 definition)

"To be in the top 1 percent in 2014, a taxfiler must have earned a total income of at least $227,100. Over 268,500 Canadians were in this high-income group. "

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidie ... 1d-eng.htm

This is just singe income (not duel income)

Median family income Toronto 2014 $75,270

http://statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/su ... 7a-eng.htm
That's per person. A couple making 115k each does not equal a 1% family. Seems like half the civil servants out there make that much. That's upper middle class.

Now, if you want to talk about the average 1% income which is 450k, that I would consider rich.
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BiegeToyota wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 6:28 am
People could learn a lot from that thread if they read it again. One guy sold a house in Markham at below asking (I think 500k or so) and said prices in his area are going down. Now all he can afford at that price is one bedroom condo.

The other guy made a point about Montreal being in bubble and asking why the hell are prices the same as Toronto when vacancy rates in Montreal are high. This was actually an excellent point. I have been telling you people that prices of real estate in third world countries are higher than Toronto and there could possibly be no crash if Toronto is lagging behind in prices. The weak Canadian dollar is just making those Toronto prices even cheaper and Toronto as a major city where most people want to live is still very cheap comparing to where most immigrants come from. They can sell their property back home and buy for cash in Canada which they have been doing since forever.

In 10 years Toronto will be 2000 per sqft in downtown core.
exactly, people from 3rd world sell their expensive RE and buy in GVA GTA by cash or not. all the immigrants do this all the time, sqft price in China & HK are like 2000-3000/sqft vs GVA GTA 1000/sqft.
Just because the locals get used to cheap RE and we are in the process of balancing to move to norm, it doesnt mean it is a bubble.
The market is barely catching up to global prime city price level. Capital flow internationally becomes easier and Liberals will open flood gate of immigrants to balance budget...
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ccyk wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 7:03 pm
exactly, people from 3rd world sell their expensive RE and buy in GVA GTA by cash or not. all the immigrants do this all the time, sqft price in China & HK are like 2000-3000/sqft vs GVA GTA 1000/sqft.
Just because the locals get used to cheap RE and we are in the process of balancing to move to norm, it doesnt mean it is a bubble.
The market is barely catching up to global prime city price level. Capital flow internationally becomes easier and Liberals will open flood gate of immigrants to balance budget...
Libs will never balance budget, lets not kid ourselves.
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Mar 31, 2008
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Taking a point in time data such as Salary doesn't mean diddly.

Gotta take into account:
-How long has that been the income?
-Are/were there student loans (think of Doctor or Lawyer!)
-Is that one person? or Househould. Marginal tax rate has a huge impact.
-Family wealth. Were you given help at some point? Having undergrad debt puts one hugely behind. Did you come from a well-off family?
-Did you get inheritance at any point? Or a transfer of assets? This even includes getting a car from your parents at some point.
-How much have you travelled over the last 5-10 years?

So for even people here to make all these comments based on a point in time income relating to housing is a fallacy. Also, have to ask what is their age? Because of the housing price increase, 300K today puts one far behind 300K even 5 years ago. Basically what's your Vintage (age, earnings increase profile).
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Dec 11, 2008
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at1212b wrote:
Mar 19th, 2017 10:21 pm
Taking a point in time data such as Salary doesn't mean diddly.

Gotta take into account:
-How long has that been the income?
-Are/were there student loans (think of Doctor or Lawyer!)
-Is that one person? or Househould. Marginal tax rate has a huge impact.
-Family wealth. Were you given help at some point? Having undergrad debt puts one hugely behind. Did you come from a well-off family?
-Did you get inheritance at any point? Or a transfer of assets? This even includes getting a car from your parents at some point.
-How much have you travelled over the last 5-10 years?

So for even people here to make all these comments based on a point in time income relating to housing is a fallacy. Also, have to ask what is their age? Because of the housing price increase, 300K today puts one far behind 300K even 5 years ago. Basically what's your Vintage (age, earnings increase profile).
Agreed. This is why the article is pretty much crap when all they really provide is income. Income means nothing without all the other points.

Perhaps the only thing that stands out is that the article assumes that you should be able to afford a detached average home in Toronto solely based on income level; which is a terrible point to make.
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speedyforme wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 8:03 am
Agreed. This is why the article is pretty much crap when all they really provide is income. Income means nothing without all the other points.

Perhaps the only thing that stands out is that the article assumes that you should be able to afford a detached average home in Toronto solely based on income level; which is a terrible point to make.
Income is currently almost a non factor in determining house prices in the GTA/Vancouver.
In the short run, it's possible to get detached from incomes. But ultimately in the long run, the correlation will return, because the money has to come from somewhere.
Even with places like the Grand Cayman, prices hold their value because of the retirement incomes going into the country.
I would consider Vancouver to be a nicer retirement location, but maybe we also have some increased interest in Toronto now.
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Jul 16, 2006
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Such a click bait title for an article to sell papers.
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rich24 wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 10:27 am
Such a click bait title for an article to sell papers.
Yes indeed... lets say 18,750 minus taxes = $9000 a month "approx"
How hard can it be to save WTF?!
Buy a condo -$500k - 100k down..
Mortgage - $1870 @ 2.89%
Expenses - $2000 Per month - Food, Condo Fees, Car Etc..


$6130 Left per month after taxes
+ $917 Equity in property

$7047 X 12 = $84560 - Savings Per Year

Seriously...
Member
Jul 16, 2006
312 posts
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GSpeed wrote:
Mar 20th, 2017 10:49 am
Yes indeed... lets say 18,750 minus taxes = $9000 a month "approx"
How hard can it be to save WTF?!
Buy a condo -$500k - 100k down..
Mortgage - $1870 @ 2.89%
Expenses - $2000 Per month - Food, Condo Fees, Car Etc..


$6130 Left per month after taxes
+ $917 Equity in property

$7047 X 12 = $84560 - Savings Per Year

Seriously...
Yea Netting 9k a month take home and only have 100k down payment Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes
Sr. Member
Sep 30, 2011
689 posts
169 upvotes
MISSISSAUGA
Top 1% T4 earner != top 1% rich, isn't it common sense in Canada

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