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It was a trial about whether and how, on a remote farm in Saskatchewan, a gun malfunctioned on Aug. 9, 2016.

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  • Aug 9th, 2018 1:51 pm
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zoso454 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 8:39 am
Here is a better one on Twitter.
Unfortunately it seems to be the same out of focus picture, and once you zoom in to look at the markings it's all blurry and fuzzy. Hard to see the damage to the casing that would tell the story of what happened when it was fired.
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dilligafeh wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:12 pm
It's worth mentioning those surplus ammo casings are steel, so a bit more resilient than brass that is flexible and would strech and blow out. If the rifling on that barrel is well worn, then it wouldn't produce enough back pressure to completely destroy a strong casing partially extracted from the chamber.
I agree with you on the steel case point.

But I think that if the barrel was worn to the point where there's significant amounts of gas by-pass, then the owner and the firearms experts would have noticed the piss-poor accuracy. It also likely wouldn't cycle properly, and the firearm experts who tested it would have notice consistent failures.
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Fort McMurray wrote:
Feb 13th, 2018 12:18 am
Why would he take the plea on manslaughter? If he intentionally murdered the guy then sure.

And thinking that this is just a Sask issue, not a chance. Aboriginal racism, in both directions, is rampant across the country.
A few factual things amongst, several other posts, to for you to ponder before you start screaming racism

Just the Facts: Colten Boushie

Boushie had been drinking at the time of incident. The driver of the SUV testified the group had been drinking during the day
At least one of them was four times over the legal limit

Boushie and his friends had a loaded weapon in the vehicle. They had earlier used a rifle to try and steal a vehicle from another farm

Cross-Whitstone, one of Boushie’s friends, told the jury he’d been driving drunk and had a .22-calibre rifle in the back of the SUV

They drove the SUV onto three farms. At the first farm, no one left the vehicle. At the second farm, they attempted to steal a truck and they used a rifle to try to break the window

Two people who were in an SUV with Boushie admitted lying in police statements. One also said he lied under oath during Stanley’s preliminary hearing
They admitted they lied to investigators about stealing and changed their stories right before taking the witness stand

Boushie's friends denied stealing Stanley’s ATV, but admitted to jumping on the ATV and trying to start it the night of the incident. Meechance, one of Boushie’s friends, said he tried to start the ATV

Boushie's friend, Jackson, assaulted Stanley's wife and mother. "I punched her," said Jackson of the aftermath of the shooting.

Gerald Stanley said he lost track of where his son was at that the time of the incident, and thought Boushie’s SUV had run over his wife. "I thought the [SUV] had run over my wife," he said.

There has been an increase in theft and crime in Rural Saskatchewan and rural residents have been experiencing long wait times for emergency services

Some farmers in the area said they need guns while harvesting because it's a precaution due to the increase in crime in the area
Saskatchewan RCMP say vast response areas and limited resources are responsible for long wait times being experienced by some rural residents

Many aboriginal people who showed up for jury duty were asked to be excused. Many others simply didn’t show up.

http://www.truenorthinitiative.com/facts_boushie
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tk1000 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 8:25 am
The evidence supporting the hang-fire theory was weak. It amounted to little more than anecdotal evidence to the effect that "hang fires happen." There was no statistical evidence on the incidence rate of hang fires, either among firearms generally or among the particular make and model of pistol used by the defendant. The Crown's firearms expert suggested that hang fires are rare and that such delays in firing are quite short – certainly, much shorter than Mr. Stanley's testimony would indicate.
from https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... e37932338/

'Anatomy of a hang-fire': Gun expert cross-examined at Stanley Trial
http://battlefordsnow.com/article/59484 ... nley-trial
Snip"
Yesterday, Williams told the jury a hang-fire is a firing delay caused by faulty or degraded ammunition, resulting in "a noticeable delay from 'click' until 'bang,'"

One of the three recently-fired cartridge casings recovered at the scene and matched to the Tokarev pistol contained an "unusual bulge," Williams said, which may have been caused by a hang-fire if someone manipulated the pistol's action after pulling the trigger. "Snip
This so called expert sounds like a dummy to me. You cannot cause a hangfire by manipulating the pistols action or even modifying it unless we're talking muzzleloaders. It is inherently dependent on the ignition of the primer compound from the mechanical strike of the firing pin and subsequently the propellant in the casing.
You could get an "out of battery" or "slamfire" however by modifying the firing pin.
They need a real gun expert to examine the gun and see if they can pinpoint what caused the malfunction. I personally don't think it was a hangfire, rather an out of battery caused by a FTF(fail to feed) and a buggered up trigger mechanism.
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Not sure if anyone still believes the story about looking for some help changing a tire, or that he was just a passenger, but IMO there's little doubt he went out that day to rob farmers. He was not killed because he was indigenous, he was killed because he put himself in a dangerous situation and mistakes were made.


EDIT: I realized I should take down this pic because it has an RFD unapproved bad word in it, but you can find the tweet at this link.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DV8vx71VwAAvT4Q?format=jpg
Last edited by i6s1 on Feb 14th, 2018 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dilligafeh wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:44 pm
Snip"
Yesterday, Williams told the jury a hang-fire is a firing delay caused by faulty or degraded ammunition, resulting in "a noticeable delay from 'click' until 'bang,'"

One of the three recently-fired cartridge casings recovered at the scene and matched to the Tokarev pistol contained an "unusual bulge," Williams said, which may have been caused by a hang-fire if someone manipulated the pistol's action after pulling the trigger. "Snip
This so called expert sounds like a dummy to me. You cannot cause a hangfire by manipulating the pistols action or even modifying it unless we're talking muzzleloaders. It is inherently dependent on the ignition of the primer compound from the mechanical strike of the firing pin and subsequently the propellant in the casing.
You could get an "out of battery" or "slamfire" however by modifying the firing pin.
They need a real gun expert to examine the gun and see if they can pinpoint what caused the malfunction. I personally don't think it was a hangfire, rather an out of battery caused by a FTF(fail to feed) and a buggered up trigger mechanism.
I think you are misrepresenting or misunderstanding what the expert said. He did not say the hangfire was caused by manipulation of the gun after pulling the trigger. He said the bulge in the casing is reflective of a hangfire event in which the gun was manipulated after the trigger was pulled. Ie the bulge was caused by a manipulation after the hangfire had started.

What that manipulation may have been I don't know. I assume it would be an open breech or some other scenario in which there was a gap that allowed the round to bulge.
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i6s1 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:53 pm
Not sure if anyone still believes the story about looking for some help changing a tire, or that he was just a passenger, but IMO there's little doubt he went out that day to rob farmers. He was not killed because he was indigenous, he was killed because he put himself in a dangerous situation and mistakes were made.
I've been informed by my very liberal friends that having this view is both racist and I'm basically part of the KKK for agreeing with the jury.
Last edited by Redmask on Feb 14th, 2018 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed nested image in quote
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i6s1 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 12:29 pm
I agree with you on the steel case point.

But I think that if the barrel was worn to the point where there's significant amounts of gas by-pass, then the owner and the firearms experts would have noticed the piss-poor accuracy. It also likely wouldn't cycle properly, and the firearm experts who tested it would have notice consistent failures.
The owner didn't seem like the kind of person that cared about accuracy as he would use it just for the noise to scare thieves and varmint as he testified.
The examiner did get another dud and some other issues while testing the gun. Not sure about accuracy as they never test for that.
I just mentioned the barrel being worn out as it could've been a factor in the casing not being obliterated by the out of chamber ignition.
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silky28 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 1:03 pm
I think you are misrepresenting or misunderstanding what the expert said. He did not say the hangfire was caused by manipulation of the gun after pulling the trigger. He said the bulge in the casing is reflective of a hangfire event in which the gun was manipulated after the trigger was pulled. Ie the bulge was caused by a manipulation after the hangfire had started.

What that manipulation may have been I don't know. I assume it would be an open breech or some other scenario in which there was a gap that allowed the round to bulge.
Well since this "expert" just testified that hangfires last milliseconds and was calling BS on the claim of hangfire by the defense based on them not lasting as long as they would've to support the defenses theory, who was fast enough to pull the trigger and manipulate the action in 1/4 of a second ??
I didn't call the expert a dummy for no reason, it's just that you probably aren't familiar enough with what is being discussed here(firearms and their function) and didn't pick up on his slip.
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I'm not going to read the last 7 pages of this thread. However, I will say that the media is doing a fine job hiding the fact that Colten Boushie was waving around a frickin' .22 CALIBRE HUNTING RIFLE while he was going on his carjacking/car theft/ATV theft spree on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

If it's ok to do that, as long as you belong to a certain ethnic group (First Nations) then I'll have to rethink my future in this country, as well as my history of voting for the Federal Liberal Party.
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dilligafeh wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 1:17 pm
Well since this "expert" just testified that hangfires last milliseconds and was calling BS on the claim of hangfire by the defense based on them not lasting as long as they would've to support the defenses theory, who was fast enough to pull the trigger and manipulate the action in 1/4 of a second ??
I didn't call the expert a dummy for no reason, it's just that you probably aren't familiar enough with what is being discussed here(firearms and their function) and didn't pick up on his slip.
You specifically called him a dummy because of your misrepresentation of what he said. As for hangfires,s, they generally go off in milliseconds but it can be much longer. What exactly is the recommended time to clear a filed round? 1 second fter failure? No it's not because hangfires can happen long after.

As for my experience with guns...I have pleanty of it and own several which I keep at my wife's family's house in the U.S.
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If he cycled the action, that would have ejected the cartridge onto the ground. Now, if the extractor failed when he cycled it, then the hangfiring cartridge would have stayed in there. But the chances of a long hangfire are low, the chances of a hangfire AND failed extraction on the same round are astronomical. I don't believe Stanley's claim that he cycled the gun, although he might have honestly *thought* he did in all the chaos.

I really don't think he set out to hurt or kill anyone. Someone who wants to kill trespassers does't keep his mags unloaded, doesn't only load 3 rounds into a mag and then fire 2 of those into the air. Especally with multiple agressors.

I think he either 1. accidentally pulled the trigger while reaching into the truck to shut it off, or 2. he thought Colton was trying to drive away with him halfway in it , representing an unacceptable safety risk to himself and his family, so he neutralized the threat.

Either way, his actions are 1. forgivable or 2. acceptable, so he shouldn't be punished. If his lawyer thought the best defence is the hangfire claim, I don't really care since the end result is the same.
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Alan Voth is a retired RCMP gunshot-residue expert who lives in the Edmonton area and works as an expert witness.

He said the events Stanley described “could happen,” but he offered an alternative theory.

When Stanley fired into the air, it could have ignited the round’s primer without immediately igniting the gunpowder. The force of the primer would have been just enough to kick the bullet out of its casing and lodge it in the gun’s barrel.

Then, when the round detonated due to hangfire, the explosion would have blown the lodged bullet outwards.

Voth’s theory notably only requires the malfunction of the ammunition, rather than the simultaneous malfunction of the firearm as well. It also carries the added feature that the primer explosion could have jostled the slide, making it look to Stanley that his gun was empty.

It’s just another theory, but Voth soon intends to acquire a Tokarev and put it to the test.

As he told the Post, “I believe I can recreate this event.”
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ger ... -acquittal

Sounds like crappy ammunition is to blame.
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silky28 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 2:05 pm
You specifically called him a dummy because of your misrepresentation of what he said. As for hangfires,s, they generally go off in milliseconds but it can be much longer. What exactly is the recommended time to clear a filed round? 1 second fter failure? No it's not because hangfires can happen long after.

As for my experience with guns...I have pleanty of it and own several which I keep at my wife's family's house in the U.S.
Does "pleanty" mean I brag about my in-laws gun collection on the internet?
I explained why I called him a dummy but apparently you know better what I was thinking than I. His manipulation theory during a long hangfire is even more far fetched than the one the defense gave.
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i6s1 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2018 2:30 pm
If he cycled the action, that would have ejected the cartridge onto the ground. Now, if the extractor failed when he cycled it, then the hangfiring cartridge would have stayed in there. But the chances of a long hangfire are low, the chances of a hangfire AND failed extraction on the same round are astronomical. I don't believe Stanley's claim that he cycled the gun, although he might have honestly *thought* he did in all the chaos.

I really don't think he set out to hurt or kill anyone. Someone who wants to kill trespassers does't keep his mags unloaded, doesn't only load 3 rounds into a mag and then fire 2 of those into the air. Especally with multiple agressors.

I think he either 1. accidentally pulled the trigger while reaching into the truck to shut it off, or 2. he thought Colton was trying to drive away with him halfway in it , representing an unacceptable safety risk to himself and his family, so he neutralized the threat.

Either way, his actions are 1. forgivable or 2. acceptable, so he shouldn't be punished. If his lawyer thought the best defence is the hangfire claim, I don't really care since the end result is the same.
Precisely. But I guess if there's a chance it could happen, that's all the defense needs. The fact that the cartridge was extracted and landed inside the vehicle after the casing had bulged and expanded shows the extractor was working properly .

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