Personal Finance

Trudeau going after Personal Services Corps disguised as small businesses

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 12th, 2017 2:53 am
Deal Addict
Oct 7, 2007
3133 posts
724 upvotes
Operatime wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 2:59 pm
It sounds like some people are afraid that the actual rules won’t come out until the budget in the spring, but they will be effective January 1 as previously stated.

What? You think a government who doesn’t recognize integration will shy away from what is effectively retroactive taxation? I don’t!
In looking at some of the proposed changes, it looks like integration will be lost and there may be some double taxation (e.g. removal of the RDTOH). If this is correct, is it legal for the government to tax money more than once? I used to think that the government could do whatever they have wanted but this is not true. There have been cases where cases have gone to court and the government has lost. To me there seems to be something fundamentally flawed with double taxation.
Member
Jul 20, 2017
278 posts
68 upvotes
choclover wrote:
Dec 7th, 2017 10:23 am
In looking at some of the proposed changes, it looks like integration will be lost and there may be some double taxation (e.g. removal of the RDTOH). If this is correct, is it legal for the government to tax money more than once? I used to think that the government could do whatever they have wanted but this is not true. There have been cases where cases have gone to court and the government has lost. To me there seems to be something fundamentally flawed with double taxation.
There is definitely legal to tax more then once..It is happening all the time. You pay HST to heat your house although you are paying for it with after tax dollars..
Sr. Member
Jul 30, 2010
982 posts
109 upvotes
Sebastian6300 wrote:
Dec 7th, 2017 11:09 am
There is definitely legal to tax more then once..It is happening all the time. You pay HST to heat your house although you are paying for it with after tax dollars..
Plus every used vehicle sale is charged PST. That could be 5-10 charges of tax on the same product over its useful life. Complete scam.
Deal Addict
Oct 7, 2007
3133 posts
724 upvotes
Sebastian6300 wrote:
Dec 7th, 2017 11:09 am
There is definitely legal to tax more then once..It is happening all the time. You pay HST to heat your house although you are paying for it with after tax dollars..
I think there is a difference between what is fair and what is LEGAL. If challenged in court, it would be interesting to see if double taxation on dividends sticks.
Member
Jul 20, 2017
278 posts
68 upvotes
choclover wrote:
Dec 7th, 2017 4:31 pm
I think there is a difference between what is fair and what is LEGAL. If challenged in court, it would be interesting to see if double taxation on dividends sticks.
You are touching on the key issue: there is no clear fundamental tax charter of rights and principles. The double taxation would be a key right there.
Governments come and go, and make all kind of rules. Some are disguised as benefits, or credits...It all should be part of the tax system..
What is annoying is that we see more and more government paid advertising that hides the key facts. As this whole super rich story. Hiding the benefits employees enjoy...like having their credit card fees and interest paid by employer, because of a bad payroll system:-). Or promoting the lie of free tuition in Ontario. Maybe another action plan coming soon ?
Sr. Member
Nov 13, 2013
752 posts
253 upvotes
OTTAWA
LeisureSuitL wrote:
Dec 7th, 2017 11:25 am
Plus every used vehicle sale is charged PST. That could be 5-10 charges of tax on the same product over its useful life. Complete scam.
What does a scam mean? Obviously we all want to pay less tax but it's a zero sum game. For someone to pay less someone else needs to pay more. So if we cut used car sales tax and increase new car sales tax would that be fairer?
Member
Jul 20, 2017
278 posts
68 upvotes
fogetmylogin wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 2:32 am
What does a scam mean? Obviously we all want to pay less tax but it's a zero sum game. For someone to pay less someone else needs to pay more. So if we cut used car sales tax and increase new car sales tax would that be fairer?
There would be better ways to collect the tax from the car owners. Maybe based on fuel economy, insurance value, etc. Instead of a big tax when you buy the car, the tax should be distributed equally. This would encourage people to update their cars more often.
Maybe that is what carbon tax is supposed to do?
Unfortunately our short sided politicians stay away from any change that affects all car owners...That would mean a lot of lost votes. Also unfortunately any change would be backed up with false claims and half truths like in the ccpc case. I can imagine morneau or garneau trudeau or some other name ending in eau coming out trying to stir up outrage against the super gas guzzlers, or super cilinder rich:-)
Deal Addict
Oct 7, 2007
3133 posts
724 upvotes
Sebastian6300 wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 4:57 am
There would be better ways to collect the tax from the car owners. Maybe based on fuel economy, insurance value, etc. Instead of a big tax when you buy the car, the tax should be distributed equally. This would encourage people to update their cars more often.
Maybe that is what carbon tax is supposed to do?
Unfortunately our short sided politicians stay away from any change that affects all car owners...That would mean a lot of lost votes. Also unfortunately any change would be backed up with false claims and half truths like in the ccpc case. I can imagine morneau or garneau trudeau or some other name ending in eau coming out trying to stir up outrage against the super gas guzzlers, or super cilinder rich:-)
While they keep fuelling up the plane to create enormous carbon emissions flying from one global climate convention to the next. Hypocrisy at its finest. People really must be thoughtful when voting next time. One more election cycle with these guys and we might lose whatever we have left of Canada's greatness.
Member
Jul 20, 2017
278 posts
68 upvotes
choclover wrote:
Dec 8th, 2017 10:34 am
While they keep fuelling up the plane to create enormous carbon emissions flying from one global climate convention to the next. Hypocrisy at its finest. People really must be thoughtful when voting next time. One more election cycle with these guys and we might lose whatever we have left of Canada's greatness.
But we will have a nice photo album of selfies...
Member
Jul 20, 2017
278 posts
68 upvotes
I think the main change will be how CRA will interpret the rules, as we have seen in the widely publicised diabetes case. Even they claim that there was no change, they started "looking differently" at disability tax credit claims...
As the title of this thread says it, they might be looking with a different eye at CCPC's...especially after the frustration of trying to ram this legislation changes ( even though even cra said in some cases, that some of the rules make no sense)
Deal Addict
May 22, 2003
2326 posts
1054 upvotes
Vancouver
choclover wrote:
Dec 3rd, 2017 11:03 am
Agreed about wishing the election was next year but I don't think people will forget. I've never seen so much outrage and backlash about a tax policy before. It's almost like no politician would dare do something so bold and in your face as these guys did. And I'm not even bringing in the conflict of interest stuff. I really hope people do not vote Liberal though. There still seem to be a lot of supporters out there that don't get what is going on right now. It's like our society is divided. On the one side we have the people who are working hard in their businesses that are negatively affected by this tax policy. And on the other side we have people who are benefiting from all of the handouts that this government is using to make themselves look good while using the hardworking people as the direct funders of these "freebies".
Liberals take away Conservatives seat in Surrey...that's 2 seats they've lost in byelections already...
Sr. Member
Nov 13, 2013
752 posts
253 upvotes
OTTAWA
Jermyzy wrote:
Dec 12th, 2017 12:45 am
Liberals take away Conservatives seat in Surrey...that's 2 seats they've lost in byelections already...
They are still looking very strong in the polls and even stronger in actual elections. Really hard to see a loss in 2019 barring a recession.

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