Shopping Discussion

Trump’s NAFTA revamp could help CDN consumers: Online Shopping, Milk, Poultry

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 21st, 2017 1:50 am

Poll: Do you support an increase in our import limits?

  • Total votes: 82. You have voted on this poll.
Yes
 
60
73%
No
 
22
27%

Poll ended at Apr 29th, 2017 1:54 pm

[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jun 14, 2001
15550 posts
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Trump’s NAFTA revamp could help CDN consumers: Online Shopping, Milk, Poultry

However, two more tangible proposals that all Canadians would notice immediately might be the scrapping of Canada’s supply management system for dairy and poultry.

This would directly bring down prices to Canadian consumers and allow U.S. companies to directly compete
on Canadian soil.

The other, and this would affect most all online shoppers, would be allowing Canadians to buy more American
goods online without paying duties of any kind.

The limit now is $20 for duty-free shipments from the U.S., whereas the Americans are allowed an $800 limit
when shopping online in Canada.
http://www.630ched.com/syn/112/289883/b ... -consumers

It looks like Amazon, eBay et al got the ear of the Trump administration for Canada only allowing $20 personal imports while America allows $800
Should we have open retail markets to bring more UK and US retailers to Canada?wegmans-tops-trader-joes-americas-favou ... #p27788812
89 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 4, 2004
2107 posts
311 upvotes
I'm no expert on these things (and I didn't read the article) but I bet that if the deal happens to allow US Dairy and Poultry into Canada, that our government will pay off the farmers for lost revenue. Hence, the consumers might pay less for the product at the point of sale, but more through taxes to subsidize the farmers for lost revenue.
Deal Addict
Nov 15, 2008
3907 posts
1272 upvotes
The US has dodgy standards and more large scale commercial farming than Canada...government will give farmers money to differentiate their product as more humane/ethical/green/craft, I bet. In Canada premium standards will become regular and prices will be higher. The US offerings will be discount but with cruelly efficient mass-production methods. Canadian product will be the ethical product.
Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2016
850 posts
445 upvotes
If US poultry and dairy can come into Canada without getting slapped with 300% excise tax, then that paves the way for two retailers Canada desparately needs to shake up the grocery industry. Yes I'm talking about the Albrecht family from Germany -- otherwise known as Trader Joe's and ALDI. Wherever they go, the incumbents suffer. Good. Time for Westonette to face some real competition.
Last edited by EastGTARedFlagger on Mar 30th, 2017 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2006
18060 posts
4671 upvotes
Good.
I'm all for supporting domestic dairy, but not when they're forced to pay the dairy cartel for the privilege of having a cow to milk.

Let's hope this paves the way for cheaper dairy so we can have ice cream that's actually ice cream and not "frozen dessert"
Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2016
850 posts
445 upvotes
Chookman wrote:
Mar 30th, 2017 5:02 pm
if the deal happens to allow US Dairy and Poultry into Canada, that our government will pay off the farmers for lost revenue.
And why should we (taxpayers)? Sorry, in the real world when competition whups your ass you don't (usually) get the government to bail you out. Let's see...

Amazon comes to Canada, Chapters/Indigo (initially), HMV, Best Buy, Staples etc get the feds to cover their losses?
Starbucks comes to Canada. Second Cup calls the feds to cover their losses?
Five Guys Burgers and Fries comes to Canada. Lick's expects the feds to bail them out of bankruptcy?
WestJet expands eastward and adds more European routes, Air Canada calls the feds to cover their losses?
Emirates and Etihad start flying nonstop from YYZ to the UAE taking away a lot of Indian traffic. Air Canada calls the feds to cover their losses?
Target comes to Canada and gets pummelled. Target calls the feds to bail them out of bankruptcy?
Walmart comes to Canada. HBC/Eatons/Sears/Loblaws call the feds to cover lost sales?

I hope the next steps will be:
US and NZ dairy comes to Canada sans tariff wall. The feds raise both middle fingers at the dairy cartel.
ALDI and Trader Joes come to Canada. The feds raise both middle fingers at the Weston family.

The dairy, poultry, and taxi cartels have ripped us off long enough. Let them fight on a level playing field for a change. No bailouts and no mercy.
[OP]
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jun 14, 2001
15550 posts
983 upvotes
Wow. I really missed the mark with the poll. I figured with the online ordering nature of RFD people would be more into a higher import limit.

Turns out people are way too into their chicken and milk!
Should we have open retail markets to bring more UK and US retailers to Canada?wegmans-tops-trader-joes-americas-favou ... #p27788812
Sr. Member
Jan 15, 2013
764 posts
99 upvotes
Mississauga
NG wrote:
Apr 2nd, 2017 11:22 pm
Wow. I really missed the mark with the poll. I figured with the online ordering nature of RFD people would be more into a higher import limit.

Turns out people are way too into their chicken and milk!
lol.

As someone who works in this industry and been an online shopper since 2003, I'm all for it. Our laws/rules are painfully archaic.

@NG - are you in the industry? (customs, import/export, etc)
[OP]
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Jun 14, 2001
15550 posts
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Brookside05 wrote:
Apr 3rd, 2017 12:56 am
lol.

As someone who works in this industry and been an online shopper since 2003, I'm all for it. Our laws/rules are painfully archaic.

@NG - are you in the industry? (customs, import/export, etc)
I am not. Just a customer who orders online from the U.S. and hopes something like this will spark more competition in the Canadian market (like Kohl's selling to Canada etc).
Should we have open retail markets to bring more UK and US retailers to Canada?wegmans-tops-trader-joes-americas-favou ... #p27788812
Deal Addict
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Sep 19, 2005
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Calgaryish
EastGTARedFlagger wrote:
Mar 30th, 2017 10:13 pm
And why should we (taxpayers)? Sorry, in the real world when competition whups your ass you don't (usually) get the government to bail you out. Let's see...

The dairy, poultry, and taxi cartels have ripped us off long enough. Let them fight on a level playing field for a change. No bailouts and no mercy.
The US agricultural industry receives about $20 billion each year in federal subsidies, known as farm income stabilization. This includes hundreds of millions to the dairy industry, about half a billion to wheat growers, close to $4 billion to cotton farmers and over $6.5 billion to subsidize corn.

Much as I appreciate your irrational idealism, please don't encourage Canadian negotiators to walk into a gunfight carrying only a pair of boxing gloves. About 400,000 Canadians are directly employed in agriculture, and it would be absolutely stupid to let those jobs evaporate simply because you want to be able to buy cheaper breakfast cereal and Frito Lay products made with American subsidized raw materials.
Deal Addict
Nov 15, 2008
3907 posts
1272 upvotes
Canada says don't blame it for Wisconsin dairy woes
http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/201 ... 100346214/

Well this is an interesting article out of Wisconsin dairy country. Apparently the issue is the US is overproducing milk and dumping it in Canada, affecting the prices that Canadian farmers could get for their milk.

As a result the Canadian dairy mafia restructured prices leading Canadian manufacturers to drop US supply contracts.
“The reality is that Canadian provinces, starting last year with Ontario and now extending across the nation, are implementing what they call a ‘national ingredients strategy.’ This lowers the cost for processors to buy Canadian-made milk ingredients, undercutting the sales previously made by Grassland and other companies to Canada,” said Chris Galen, a senior vice president at the National Milk Producers Federation based in Arlington, Va.

"Canada isn’t taxing or levying tariffs on U.S. exports, but instead is changing the pricing structure of its own milk supply to provide preferential pricing treatment for domestic suppliers," Galen said.

Not so fast on placing that blame, say Canadian farmers, who fault the U.S. for producing too much milk in a global marketplace flooded with it.

“We don’t feel good about U.S. farms going out of business. But you know what? It’s not our responsibility. It’s your own responsibility, as a country, to manage your production,” said Isabelle Bouchard, director of government relations for the trade group Dairy Farmers of Canada.

“We are a nation of 36 million people, less than the population of California. How do you expect us to (consume) your over-supply of milk when we already produce milk for our market?”
Moderator
May 28, 2012
9476 posts
1798 upvotes
Saskatoon
Maybe this is an oversimplification, but Trump can't have it both ways: enforcing a "buy American" stance and yet expecting the world to open its doors to their exports.
Deal Addict
Apr 25, 2001
1464 posts
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Pickering
Mars2012 wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 6:01 pm
Maybe this is an oversimplification, but Trump can't have it both ways: enforcing a "buy American" stance and yet expecting the world to open its doors to their exports.
Trump alone can fix all our problems. The man is a narcissi and are only pandering to the idiots who voted for him. He will be surprised when other countries respond in kind.
Sr. Member
Feb 22, 2016
850 posts
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retrothing wrote:
Apr 18th, 2017 5:23 pm
About 400,000 Canadians are directly employed in agriculture, and it would be absolutely stupid to let those jobs evaporate simply because you want to be able to buy cheaper breakfast cereal and Frito Lay products made with American subsidized raw materials.
But not all 400,000 agriculture jobs use cartel power to set prices artificially high, AND have the protection of a tariff wall so that they don't have to compete. In other words they have a monopoly. Dairy and poultry have that protection, but beef does not.

Consider that foreign butter is slapped with an almost 300% tariff on import. (if you're wondering why you never see Kerrygold butter from Ireland here, but it's readily available even at ALDI in America, that's why). What makes dairy farmers so special they deserve that kind of protection?

I didn't see the government slap a 300% tariff on iPhones and Android phones in order to protect BlackBerry jobs.
I didn't see the government slap a 300% tariff on Alcatel/Lucent/Cisco products in order to protect Nortel jobs.
I didn't see the government slap a 300% tariff on Starbucks coffee roasted in Seattle in order to protect Tim Hortons and Second Cup jobs.
and so on...

Trump may be wrong on a lot of things, but he is absolutely right on this. Tariff wall has got to go. If the dairy farmers want to continue operating as a cartel, let them. But no more tariff wall.

Where you see this in action and it works quite well is in California. Go into a supermarket in CA and you'll see California milk (selling for about what Canadian milk goes for, $4/gal) right alongside milk from other states like Wisconsin, sold at more reasonable prices (maybe $2.50/gal). The consumer makes the choice whether to buy local/organic/yada-yada or keep more money in his pocket. What's wrong with that?

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