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Trying to install ceiling fan - is my ceiling box secure?

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Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto

Trying to install ceiling fan - is my ceiling box secure?

Hi,

I am trying to install a ceiling fan in my room.
I removed the ceiling light fixture and took off a few screws, and I have what you see in this picture.

[IMG]http://s17.postimg.org/d3wwxx8y7/IMG_20 ... 214344.jpg[/IMG]

I have already removed all the screws that I see and the ceiling box won't come off. It does feel pretty secure, and doesn't really wobble around when I pull or push it around, but I just don't know if it's really secure enough for a ceiling fan. I would've liked to remove this and see if there's a metal brace there or if this is attached to a wooden bar between ceiling joists, but since it won't come off even after removing all the screws, I don't know how I would check.
Is there a way to tell just by looking? If not, how should I proceed from here? At this point, I don't know if I need one of these or if I do, how I would install it since I can't remove the existing ceiling box.

Help will be really appreciated.
16 replies
Sr. Member
User avatar
Mar 3, 2013
516 posts
265 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
No it is not secure enough for a ceiling fan. You need to install the proper bracket for fans. Also, is that wiring aluminum?
A Licensed Electrical Contractor
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
Ok, so how do I get this out of the way?

And yes, it's aluminum wiring. The house was built in the 70's. Is there something I need to do about that too?
Sr. Member
User avatar
Mar 3, 2013
516 posts
265 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
Is there an attic above this box? You will need to go up there and see how its secured. You will not be able to secure a ceiling fan bracket to the box without cutting the ceiling open if there is no access to the above space.
A Licensed Electrical Contractor
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
There's a small attic door in the room next door, but I've never been up there. I am not sure if it's really meant to be accessed.

I was hoping one of those retrofit ceiling braces - the ones you put through the hole in the ceiling and turn to expand so that they fit between the joists - would work.

If not, and if I need to cut up the ceiling, this may be a way bigger job than I hoped it would be.

But really, what might be holding that box right now, after all the screws have been removed?
Banned
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Jul 25, 2007
797 posts
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Richmond Hell
Those retro brackets are a pain to use but they work very well once secured to the joists. Can you tell if the box is secured from the side or not? If it was originally secured from the side, then you probably have something like this http://www.hardwarestore.com/octagon-bo ... 952.aspx#1 so the bracket attached to the octagon box is nailed to the joist
The lack of a knockout on the right side of the box leads me to think this is the type of box you have installed. Did you remove any wood screws from the back of the box?
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
I moved in a year ago and it was there when I got here. This is the first time I am seeing this after removing the ceiling light fixture too.

If it's secured from the side with something looking like the thing in your link, fromunda kid, then I am afraid this may really be beyond my capability.

That would also mean that the hole in the ceiling is not in the centre of two joists, but right next to a joist, right? Does that mean I will need to patch that hole up and cut another hole, if I want to use a retrofit brace?

I am beginning to think maybe this is just not worth it after all...
Banned
User avatar
Jul 25, 2007
797 posts
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Richmond Hell
No the hole doesnt have to be centered to use those brackets. Yes the box is most likely attached to a joist.
Did you remove any wood screws or just machine type screws?
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
Oh, if you mean ones I removed just now, I think the screws I removed were all just machine type screws.

Let me guess... does that mean I didn't really remove any screw that's really holding that box in place?
Banned
User avatar
Jul 25, 2007
797 posts
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Richmond Hell
monotious wrote: does that mean I didn't really remove any screw that's really holding that box in place?
correct
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
Ok, so I guess now I have a choice of 1) cutting a larger hole around the existing hole and try to work with that using a retrofit brace, 2) try getting up there and work from above somehow or 3) give up.

This is the attic door in the next room (which is inside a closet):

[IMG]http://i58.tinypic.com/9tl6pw.jpg[/IMG]

I saw my home inspector poking his head into that to check my water heater chimney before I bought this house, but I have never actually gone up there myself. Would I be able to go up there and work from there?

If I choose to cut a hole in the ceiling, how would that proceed, what would I need, and how I would fix it up afterwards?
Penalty Box
Jul 14, 2014
1365 posts
349 upvotes
I used a box like that for my fan. Not a lot of room for the remote etc . If you are timid, why not use a wire to hold it?

Yes, take light up in attic and check for bats but dont step on drywall.
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
Not sure what you mean by using a wire to hold it. Using a wire to hold what to what? You mean connect wire to the ceiling fan, and then secure the other end of the wire on something? But what would that be?

Bats... what else can there be? Bugs, I'd guess. Mice?
I don't hear anything, but I guess it's possible for something to be there. Doesn't sounds exciting at all.
Could there be insulation, such that the ceiling box is buried in the insulation material? Then will I need to remove the insulation to install this?

Don't step on drywall, so I should step on the joints only?

If I decide to work in the attic, how would I secure the box for ceiling fan? I probably don't need the same kind of retrofit metal brace - maybe another type that you secure using screws?
Penalty Box
Jul 14, 2014
1365 posts
349 upvotes
Secure wire to joist with screw. Ensure box is attached to joist. Step on joists. Wire may come w fan. This is test of your manhood.
Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2014
128 posts
3 upvotes
Toronto
Yes, the fan comes with a wire. The installation manual showed attaching one end to the joist, but the diagram wasn't clear about how the wire would connect to the joist.

But I thought You meant I could use my existing box, so that I don't need to get into the attic. If I need to go into the attic to attach the wire anyway, I might as well just replace the box too.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 19, 2008
7407 posts
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Whitby
monotious wrote: I removed the ceiling light fixture and took off a few screws, and I have what you see in this picture.

[IMG]http://s17.postimg.org/d3wwxx8y7/IMG_20 ... 214344.jpg[/IMG]

I have already removed all the screws that I see and the ceiling box won't come off.
Am I not looking at 2 screws on the left side of the box?....I see you removed the ground screw, not sure what else?
Banned
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Jul 25, 2007
797 posts
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Richmond Hell
No offence but you should hire someone who will do the job properly because it sounds like you have some doubts and this doesnt seem like a standard remove replace application. Also with aluminum wiring, and dont quote me because I'm not an electrician, but I think you will need special grease or special marrets to install the fan.

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