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TTC thread: Subway extension officially scheduled to open Dec 17

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  • Nov 18th, 2017 10:14 am
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Jul 10, 2003
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aznnorth wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:52 am
How long did this whole project take? 10yrs? 15yrs?? Damn, in that same time china has put in hundreds of subway lines in over a dozen cities all along the eastern coast from shenzhen all up to beijing with expansion to more cities in the next decade. Building anything in north america is lame. TTC is no exception. TTC STILL doesnt have the trackguards/track gates to prevent suicides which causes a 100 delays a year. This is the norm in any major subway system in asia.

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And no human rights or labour laws in China either. I prefer living in a country where we have human rights and labour laws, even if it means building subways takes way longer.
Last edited by LNahid2000 on Nov 8th, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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aznnorth wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:16 am
+1000. LOL, this IS exactly what they say. Guess you've spoken to a few. lol. Even wechat is dumbed down here. In china you get like a 100 different functions on that single app like QR scanning/pay, food delivery, water delivery, laundry services, banking, renting bikes, etc., etc.. Here you get nothing. Why?? Becuz the services dont exist in Canada. :twisted: Smiling Face With Horns :twisted:
China is bad example though, they are in berserk mode in everything now.

They don't exist because we lack problems and got complacent, relative to Asia.

Our telecom and retail banking regulations were and still are partially ahead. You can easily find banks that support fingerprint scan and setting up interbank transfer. You will only appreciate when going abroad.

Those services will take long time to exist because the vested interests already built moat around their industry to prevent competition. But again, it's regulation, not because Canadian entrepreneurs lacked ingenuity, capital or guts.

I am sure we will have most of the services but it will be decades. TTC's is different, their thinking is stuck in dark ages.
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aznnorth wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:16 am
+1000. LOL, this IS exactly what they say. Guess you've spoken to a few. lol.
Lol you got that right.

What an embarrassment. I don't wanna say I am from here...
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Ilovejaneandfinch wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 10:06 am
Canada is so far behind on things, it is mind boggling.

Guy from China comes here and will ask why is this not here, why is that not here?

"They don't gat da money"
"Wait this is Canada right?"
:facepalm:
Shanghai has 4 times the population of the GTA, some things can not be done in the GTA because their Isn't the population to support it.

Well, we could do It, but people Don't want to pay $10 each way.

Janeandfinch, you going to pay $10 each way?
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renoldman wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 2:00 pm
Shanghai has 4 times the population of the GTA, some things can not be done in the GTA because their Isn't the population to support it.
Tell that to the rental market, why rents jumped and doubled.

You can't stop GTA from becoming more dense over time, jobs are concentrated here. Plus GTA/SWO essentially has to support trades for goods and services for the entire province and the north eastern industrial region of the continent. If people/capital/ideas cannot flow fast enough i.e. congestions, it reduces our productivity thus prosperity.

Yes density does not support it thus good things will never happen. But it's not population density, it's the brain neuron density of the population.
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Yeah I agree on the brain neuron density thing.
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renoldman wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 2:00 pm
Shanghai has 4 times the population of the GTA, some things can not be done in the GTA because their Isn't the population to support it.

Well, we could do It, but people Don't want to pay $10 each way.

Janeandfinch, you going to pay $10 each way?
Things get done much faster in China because there is only one political party and it doesn't get challenged from anyone. When something needs to be done, there is no opposition. Unlike here where the opposition will oppose the ruling party and delay it forever. Then they will blame each other for it.
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LongLiveRFD wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 2:31 pm
Tell that to the rental market, why rents jumped and doubled.

You can't stop GTA from becoming more dense over time, jobs are concentrated here. Plus GTA/SWO essentially has to support trades for goods and services for the entire province and the north eastern industrial region of the continent. If people/capital/ideas cannot flow fast enough i.e. congestions, it reduces our productivity thus prosperity.

Yes density does not support it thus good things will never happen. But it's not population density, it's the brain neuron density of the population.
When their is 4 times the population, the costs of building can be recouped far quicker at a low added cost per fare.

Again, if you want the same as Shanghai with less users, expect the cost to skyrocket.

I am unwilling to pay $10 each way to and from work, so 1980s style transportation is ok with me.

If janeandfinch and others are willing to pay the $10 each way for it to get built, then tell the government and bring a petition showing the people willing to pay $10 each way.

4 times the population each paying 400+ fares a year and you should be able to see the economies of scale are that unbalanced for Toronto.
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renoldman wrote:
Nov 8th, 2017 9:07 pm
When their is 4 times the population, the costs of building can be recouped far quicker at a low added cost per fare.

Again, if you want the same as Shanghai with less users, expect the cost to skyrocket.

I am unwilling to pay $10 each way to and from work, so 1980s style transportation is ok with me.

If janeandfinch and others are willing to pay the $10 each way for it to get built, then tell the government and bring a petition showing the people willing to pay $10 each way.

4 times the population each paying 400+ fares a year and you should be able to see the economies of scale are that unbalanced for Toronto.
You are trying to say more coverage adds unnecessary cost but your logic is wacky, that's more applicable to the proposed high speed rail.

Or you are suggesting getting rid of people and shutting down businesses so your property tax goes down?

I can understand if you don't see your income rise but property tax and other costs rise exponentially and you don't enjoy full benefits of upgraded TTC.

If you are believer of your own logic you should realize your artificial appreciation on your home by selling it to a dummy, buy far away from GTA and keep the difference. There's no going back now, and they are planning and spending the money badly.

TTC is public goods, the fact you are unable to benefit doesn't mean others must not.

Reason RFD exists is because goods/deals can reach far and wide, and cheaply for everyone to bicker about because of public investments.
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Anyone know where I can find info about re-routes of YRT (York Region Transit) buses that were going into York University Campus - they are supposed to be re-routed to the new TTC subway station Pioneer Village.

Also is there any info about integrated fare system changes for YRT->TTC cross region? i.e. I would take a YRT from north of Steeles and goto the TTC subway, do I need to pay full fare twice (one to YRT and one to TTC) each way?
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aviador wrote:
Oct 31st, 2017 11:14 pm
^ The stairs look narrow.
i was going to say the same thing. Why are the stairs still look so narrow.
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Elfwood wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 1:46 pm
Anyone know where I can find info about re-routes of YRT (York Region Transit) buses that were going into York University Campus - they are supposed to be re-routed to the new TTC subway station Pioneer Village.
Check https://www.yrt.ca/en/schedules-and-map ... nsion.aspx

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Elfwood wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 1:46 pm
Also is there any info about integrated fare system changes for YRT->TTC cross region? i.e. I would take a YRT from north of Steeles and goto the TTC subway, do I need to pay full fare twice (one to YRT and one to TTC) each way?
YRT/Viva site says...
"Customers must pay TTC fare when boarding the TTC subway, and YRT/Viva fare when boarding a YRT/Viva bus."
"Customers will be required to pay TTC fare when boarding the TTC subway, and YRT/Viva fare when boarding a YRT/Viva bus, as they do currently."
"The YRT/Viva Pay app will not be accepted on the TTC subway. Customers must pay TTC fare to board the subway."
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marktang wrote:
Nov 9th, 2017 3:05 pm
i was going to say the same thing. Why are the stairs still look so narrow.
Probably so old ladies can hold both rails as they descend/ascend?
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Apparently we need to show numbers to indicate how Shanghai has a fantastic economies of scale for a transit project compared to Toronto.

I will entertain .....

Shanghai Metro yearly ridership:

3.401 billion (2016)

TTC Ridership:

538 Million (2016)

Let's say a large scale project costs $10 Billion in both places and let's also assume that it will be in place for 25 years. Let's also assume constant ridership numbers for ease.

In Shanghai, over 25 years, there will be 85.025 Billion rides, the added cost per ride would be $0.1176

In Toronto, over 25 years, there will be 13.450 Billion rides, the added cost per ride would be $0.7435

So, assuming costs in both places is the same, Toronto would still have a 6 times higher cost per ride for a similar project.

Realistically, the $10 Billion project would somehow balloon to $20 Billion in Toronto (someone needs to get a bonus for it being completed under re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-vised budget) and the cost per ride would be 12 times that of Shanghai.

Again, if people want the same as Shanghai, the cost would never be the same in Toronto due to the lack of economies of scale.

People want cheap transit and then they want the same as other places who benefit immensely from having more riders.

I think a number of people would agree that the TTC resembles soviet union transit, but if you told them that they would have to pay 6 times as much, I bet most would quiet down. (Yeah, it's not 6 times the total fare, but a portion of it ..... you know what I mean.)
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renoldman wrote:
Nov 10th, 2017 8:13 pm
Apparently we need to show numbers to indicate how Shanghai has a fantastic economies of scale for a transit project compared to Toronto.

Realistically, the $10 Billion project would somehow balloon to $20 Billion in Toronto (someone needs to get a bonus for it being completed under re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-vised budget) and the cost per ride would be 12 times that of Shanghai.
Agreed! +100. The other huuuge difference is efficiency of management. China operates via a cental govt. One party, one govt; what they say - goes! They dont have 15,000 different levels of govt and administration repping a hundred different org's from zoning, bylaws, yada yada 100 feasibility studies. Need to knock down 500 acres?? No problem, start next week. In the west - study after study from this and that organization - nothing ever gets done for 15-20yrs. Just look how long it took the shepperd west extension to happen from conceptualization to actuality - it's pathetic. China would have it done within a yr and 5 other lines in 3 other cities and TTC would still be yakking about nothing. This inefficiency costs money. Another reason why shit in the west never gets done on time with 5-6x original cost. This adds more money per rider.
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