Computers & Electronics

UPS backup power supply worth it?

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  • Aug 12th, 2017 6:54 pm
Sr. Member
Aug 21, 2011
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If you do your research you find surge protectors aren't actually very useful, their protection is minimal and warranties/coverage will never actually help you.
Any decent UPS will protect your hardware much better as well as give you time to safely shutdown.
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Mar 31, 2017
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A UPS will continually use power for itself, but isn't much more than a modem, say 7watts with my APC. Charging the battery will use more. You will also need to change the battery every few years, as the capacity will shrink depending on how often the battery is drained and to what extent, and also depends on the age of the battery. Most 3rd party replacement batteries are under $20.
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Jul 6, 2009
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waloshin wrote:
Jul 12th, 2017 8:54 pm
As well as expensive professional video equipment and VCRs.
How many recommendations are subjective, wild speculation, emotion, and never cite a single specification number? Every one?

Let's go through a long list of outright lies. UPS protects hardware? How? From what? What number defines that protection? Reality: a UPS in battery backup mode can be some of the 'dirtiest' power seen by an appliance. For example, some numbers. This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to robust (superior) protection already inside electronics, then even this UPS provides sufficient and safe power.

Sine wave? Of course that claim was subjective. We all learned in high school math that square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. So they did not lie. They made a subjective claim - did not define pure sine wave with a spec number. The naive among us assume it only outputs a single sine wave - not square waves and spikes. Yes, many only assume - do not learn.

UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does near zero to protect hardware and need not protect saved data. If it did hardware protection, then a manufacturer specification number was also posted to define protection. No number posted because no such number exists.

If an adjacent protector did protection, well, an informed poster put an APC on everything potentially damaged by surges including dishwasher, dimmer switches, refrigerator, clocks, furnace, GFCIs, vacuum cleaner, doorbell, central air, LED & CFL bulbs, stove, every recharging electronics, etc. Why did he not? Wild speculation, encouraged by advertising and hearsay, assumed only one device needs protection.

If anything needs protection, then everything needs that protection.

Effective protection from direct lightning strikes and other potentially destructive surges costs about $1 per protected appliance. As was done even over 100 years ago. Comes with numbers that claims that protection. And is never once mentioned by others ... educated by hearsay, advertising, and other subjective (junk science) recommendations. Only the completely misinformed recommended APC, Cyberpower, et al products to do what even the manufacturer does not claim it can do.

Effective protection remains functional for decades after multiple direct lightning strikes. Only near zero (ineffective) protectors with massive profit margins and near zero joules must be replaced frequently (as another recommended subjectively).

Brownouts and sudden power loss does not damage any electronics. Does not trip a fuse. Such damage violates international design standards even long before PCs existed.

Projector can cool down just fine without a fan. It simply takes longer. A hot bulb can be damaged by vibration. So a fan cools that bulb faster so that the projector can be moved immediately without damage. No UPS is necessary. Simply give a bulb something less than a minute to cool before moving it.

Meanwhile a UPS in battery backup mode is not recommended for motorized appliances. Numbers in a second paragraph say why that UPS powering a fan motor is not recommended - even by a UPS manufacturer. 'Dirty' power that is perfectly ideal for electronics is also potentially harmful to motorized appliances.

One noted a reality. Power bar protectors are more robust than a UPS. Always read spec numbers. That power bar may have hundreds or thousand joules. UPS usually is so close to zero that, to be any smaller, it would have to be zero. So, near zero UPS protected an appliance? Slightly 'more joules' power bar did not? Power bar may make surge damage easier. It may connect a surge direct to electronics bypassing robust protection inside a power supply. Since a surge found a best path to earth destructively via that appliance, then it need not destroy another appliance connected to a UPS. That is how surges really work. Neither UPS nor power bar did anything useful - had one first learned numbers and how surges do damage.

How do hundreds or thousand joules absorb a destructive surge - ie hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It does not have to. Target market is people who make recommendations by ignoring numbers. Only the informed note near zero joules in a very expensive power bar protector or UPS. Only the informed spend $1 per protected appliance for a solution that actually does harmlessly absorb hundreds of thousands of joules. But we are not yet making informed recommendations. We are simply exposing so many who are victims of wild speculation. subjective reasoning, advertising, hearsay, and who even forgot what was taught in junior high school science.

Effective protection is provided by other manufacturers known by any guy for integrity. These include Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, General Electric, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). Manufacturers not mentioned by so many who even ignore spec numbers.

Effective protection always answers this question: where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? What does an effective protector always have, what does not exist in those recommended (near zero joule) protectors, and what is never discussed by subjective recommendations? A protector is only as effective as its connection to and quality of earth ground.

Earth ground - what even Franklin demonstrated as necessary over 250 years ago. And never discussed by so many so easily manipulated by fables, myths, and advertising. Honest recommendations always cite relevant numbers.
Sr. Member
Nov 14, 2008
525 posts
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westom , you may know alot about this issue, but you never provide any real advice , just that all consumer surge protector ups are useless, which is not true,
In this case we are talking about consumer electronic device protection not whole building protection. Its a very low chance that a direct lightning strike with hundreds of thousands of joules will hit your house..Its a higher probability that you will loose power during a storm , which a UPS will give you the time to shutdown your computer if not automatically.
Is a $10 - $100 ups/ surge protector going to save my $1k worth of electronics from direct or very close lightning strike - hits an electrical post outside your house ..obviously not.. Is it more likely that your house will burn down..yes

westom wrote:
Jul 13th, 2017 9:08 pm
How many recommendations are subjective, wild speculation, emotion, and never cite a single specification number? Every one?

Let's go through a long list of outright lies. UPS protects hardware? How? From what? What number defines that protection? Reality: a UPS in battery backup mode can be some of the 'dirtiest' power seen by an appliance. For example, some numbers. This 120 volt sine wave UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. Due to robust (superior) protection already inside electronics, then even this UPS provides sufficient and safe power.

Sine wave? Of course that claim was subjective. We all learned in high school math that square waves and spikes are nothing more than a sum of pure sine waves. So they did not lie. They made a subjective claim - did not define pure sine wave with a spec number. The naive among us assume it only outputs a single sine wave - not square waves and spikes. Yes, many only assume - do not learn.

UPS is only temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does near zero to protect hardware and need not protect saved data. If it did hardware protection, then a manufacturer specification number was also posted to define protection. No number posted because no such number exists.

If an adjacent protector did protection, well, an informed poster put an APC on everything potentially damaged by surges including dishwasher, dimmer switches, refrigerator, clocks, furnace, GFCIs, vacuum cleaner, doorbell, central air, LED & CFL bulbs, stove, every recharging electronics, etc. Why did he not? Wild speculation, encouraged by advertising and hearsay, assumed only one device needs protection.

If anything needs protection, then everything needs that protection.

Effective protection from direct lightning strikes and other potentially destructive surges costs about $1 per protected appliance. As was done even over 100 years ago. Comes with numbers that claims that protection. And is never once mentioned by others ... educated by hearsay, advertising, and other subjective (junk science) recommendations. Only the completely misinformed recommended APC, Cyberpower, et al products to do what even the manufacturer does not claim it can do.

Effective protection remains functional for decades after multiple direct lightning strikes. Only near zero (ineffective) protectors with massive profit margins and near zero joules must be replaced frequently (as another recommended subjectively).

Brownouts and sudden power loss does not damage any electronics. Does not trip a fuse. Such damage violates international design standards even long before PCs existed.

Projector can cool down just fine without a fan. It simply takes longer. A hot bulb can be damaged by vibration. So a fan cools that bulb faster so that the projector can be moved immediately without damage. No UPS is necessary. Simply give a bulb something less than a minute to cool before moving it.

Meanwhile a UPS in battery backup mode is not recommended for motorized appliances. Numbers in a second paragraph say why that UPS powering a fan motor is not recommended - even by a UPS manufacturer. 'Dirty' power that is perfectly ideal for electronics is also potentially harmful to motorized appliances.

One noted a reality. Power bar protectors are more robust than a UPS. Always read spec numbers. That power bar may have hundreds or thousand joules. UPS usually is so close to zero that, to be any smaller, it would have to be zero. So, near zero UPS protected an appliance? Slightly 'more joules' power bar did not? Power bar may make surge damage easier. It may connect a surge direct to electronics bypassing robust protection inside a power supply. Since a surge found a best path to earth destructively via that appliance, then it need not destroy another appliance connected to a UPS. That is how surges really work. Neither UPS nor power bar did anything useful - had one first learned numbers and how surges do damage.

How do hundreds or thousand joules absorb a destructive surge - ie hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It does not have to. Target market is people who make recommendations by ignoring numbers. Only the informed note near zero joules in a very expensive power bar protector or UPS. Only the informed spend $1 per protected appliance for a solution that actually does harmlessly absorb hundreds of thousands of joules. But we are not yet making informed recommendations. We are simply exposing so many who are victims of wild speculation. subjective reasoning, advertising, hearsay, and who even forgot what was taught in junior high school science.

Effective protection is provided by other manufacturers known by any guy for integrity. These include Intermatic, Square D, Ditek, Siemens, Polyphaser (an industry benchmark), Syscom, Leviton, ABB, Delta, Erico, General Electric, and Cutler-Hammer (Eaton). Manufacturers not mentioned by so many who even ignore spec numbers.

Effective protection always answers this question: where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? What does an effective protector always have, what does not exist in those recommended (near zero joule) protectors, and what is never discussed by subjective recommendations? A protector is only as effective as its connection to and quality of earth ground.

Earth ground - what even Franklin demonstrated as necessary over 250 years ago. And never discussed by so many so easily manipulated by fables, myths, and advertising. Honest recommendations always cite relevant numbers.
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Jul 6, 2009
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lostintransit wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 8:41 am
westom , you may know alot about this issue, but you never provide any real advice ,
Of course not. You are not yet ready to learn what is effective. A long list of misinformation must be unlearned. Only then would you be ready to learn well proven solutions.

But apparently you still want to believe their 'candygram' myths. Stop foolishly viewing what is in a tiny part of the room. That is classic myopic thinking. View the actual problem.

Lightning is a connection from a cloud (maybe three miles up) to distant earthborne charges (maybe four miles distant). Now you are ready to see reason for damage and a solution. That electric current from cloud to charges is everywhere in that path simultaneously. It increases voltage on anything that foolishly tries to block it (ie that plug-in protector).

Damage exists because a homeowner all but invited that current into his structure. Protection is always - as demonstrated even by Franklin over 250 years ago - is always about that current on a path that is not destructive. And it need not be lightning. Many other transients do same damage; require a same solution.

No 'magic box' solution (recommended by other scammed consumers) will even discuss that - or will avert resulting damage. Somehow a 'magic box' adjacent to an appliance will 'block' or 'absorb' that current? Nonsense. Its 2 cm protector part will not 'block' what three miles of sky cannot. Its near zero joules will not 'absorb' even tinier but still destructive surges. Only recommendations based in spec numbers are honest.

Read what is posted - not what you wanted to see. Nowhere was a near zero joule (plug-in protector) called useless. Go back and read. A completely different description applies.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. As has been true over 100 years ago. But a consumer who all but wants to be scammed will pay tens of times more money for a near zero joule protector. Because advertising and hearsay made him feel better. Sorry. Emotion is the only reason you believe in that near zero consumer electronic device protection. Knots in power cord wires will also provide protection - using your same reasoning. Knot is another near zero joule protection device. Yes it will do protection - that is near zero.

Best protection at each appliance - GFCI, clock, dimmer switch, and even your $1k electronics - is already inside that appliance. Consumer electronic device protection may even compromise that protection - make damage easier.

Worse, in rare cases, a 'magic box' protector can create (and has created) fire. If found in your luggage, that magic box protector may be confiscated by a cruise ship. They take stateroom fires seriously. Did you also know about that? Or did you foolishly want to believe spin and lies promoted by advertising, wild speculation, and hearsay. They will not even justify their claims with honest numbers.

Did you know that APC quietly recommended some 15 million protectors be removed immediately - due to fires?

A transient that a consumer electronic device protection might protect from is often made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. A surge too tiny to damage electronics can also destroy that near zero joule 'magic box'. That gets the naive to wildly speculate, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Total bull. That near zero joule protector did exactly what the manufacturer said it would do. Fail. Then sales and profits increase.

Superior protection already inside the attaches appliance protected that appliance.

If you do not have 'whole house' protection, then a protector fire is even a rare possibility. The informed consumer spends about $1 per protected appliance to protect from all surges including direct lightning strikes. Then that consumer electronic device protection is protected - should not fail on a surge too tiny to damage other appliances.

But again, we are still unlearning widely believed myths and lies. Still learning what is required to have protection. Still confronting urban myths. When you are ready to admit to that scam, then we can move on to effective and well proven solutions.

BTW, will a direct lighning strike burn down the house? Research done long ago by the US Forestry Service proved that well over 90% of all trees directly struck by lightning had no appreciable damage. Direct lighting strikes blocks away to utility wires is also a direct lightning strike to every household appliance. Damage - not fire - is the more common and completely avoidable event. Damage from a direct lightning strikes means a human made a mistake. A glaring and common mistake is summarized above - a magic box protector.
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The main use of a UPS isn't a direct lightning strike - those are rare and likely nothing will protect against that.. The UPS to supplies its own power to the small appliances instead of the dirtier power coming in from the wall socket in case of brown outs. Many devices including that of the power supply of a computer has components designed to ward against limited power overvoltage.

This the UPS will work for brown outs. You're saying the UPS doesn't supply a sine wave close enough to the real thing - on this point I will agree with you. The rough approximation of a sine wave especially on a cheaper unit under $100, and even on more expensive consumer units, can damage the small appliance it was supposed to protect over long periods of time. However, a few mins on this UPS power with a very rough approximation of a sine wave is unlikely to damage it. A brownout from the wall socket is more likely to damage the equipment.

I rather have something (UPS power) that is less likely to damage my equipment than nothing that will almost certainly hurt my equipment.
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westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
Lightning is a connection from a cloud (maybe three miles up) to distant earthborne charges (maybe four miles distant). Now you are ready to see reason for damage and a solution. That electric current from cloud to charges is everywhere in that path simultaneously. It increases voltage on anything that foolishly tries to block it (ie that plug-in protector).
Actually, the damaging part of lightning actually goes from the ground to the cloud generally speaking, if we're trying to be accurate Link . Also, a very simple concept in the electrical world is "path of least resistance"; you can read about it here, here's a link. Essentially, you aren't blocking a lightning bolt, you're giving it a non-damaging path (similar to how they might re-route a river around a town with dikes); this is why cellphone towers full of very sensitive equipment get hit ALL THE TIME, and the components (virtually) always survive.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
No 'magic box' solution (recommended by other scammed consumers) will even discuss that - or will avert resulting damage. Somehow a 'magic box' adjacent to an appliance will 'block' or 'absorb' that current? Nonsense. Its 2 cm protector part will not 'block' what three miles of sky cannot. Its near zero joules will not 'absorb' even tinier but still destructive surges. Only recommendations based in spec numbers are honest.
Actually, yes; a small box CAN save your components. It's not "magic", it's not like you're asking Jesus to save your components. Engineers/equipment designers use very measurable and calculable science to achieve the goal (assuming they care, which is why you should buy from a reputable company); I picked the Wikipedia page, because it's a pretty basic explanation that shouldn't be too hard to understand: Click Me . Otherwise, use Google and search for things like "How does surge suppression work" or "circuit protection schemes". Do they work 100% of the time? Nah, but nothing is 100%. Better than nothing? Definitely. To benefit from the simple concept of "path of least resistance", you insert a "front end" component that can provide a path that has more capacity than the input (this is clearly labelled on most protection devices; mine is 350 joules ... roughly as many joules as it takes to kill a human). For a direct lightning strike that directly hits your motherboard (maybe you leave your motherboard out of its case sitting in a field or something?), you're pretty screwed; in that case, you're right, not much can be done, as it bypasses the protection device. However, in the example of a car that is packed with reasonably sensitive electronics, they can be hit by lightning a lot Link , and cruise along unscathed; I'll refer you back to "path of least resistance" before for an explanation of how this works ... or you can remember back to grade 5 schooling (or whenever you learned about electricity in elementary school). So, if the lightning charge that your device experiences is lower than what the device is capable of dealing with, it can just send it down to the ground wire into the Earth, probably sacrificing the protection device. For how that works, feel free to read this here ; it's pretty easy to understand.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. As has been true over 100 years ago. But a consumer who all but wants to be scammed will pay tens of times more money for a near zero joule protector. Because advertising and hearsay made him feel better. Sorry. Emotion is the only reason you believe in that near zero consumer electronic device protection. Knots in power cord wires will also provide protection - using your same reasoning. Knot is another near zero joule protection device. Yes it will do protection - that is near zero.

Best protection at each appliance - GFCI, clock, dimmer switch, and even your $1k electronics - is already inside that appliance. Consumer electronic device protection may even compromise that protection - make damage easier.
Electrical rules haven't changed since big-bang, and presumably were the same before that as well. I'm wondering what changed somewhere around 100 years ago, because Google is failing me.

Back on topic: So, you believe that 120V->inside PC (PSU)->motherboard->PSU->ground is equivalent to 120V->sacrificial component outside of case->ground ? Do you believe your PSU/mobo voltage regulators in your computer have the capability of being as effective as an external component? If you believe this, you are very wrong; I can't find a link for that, but basically "motherboard parts are sensitive, it's better to blow up big crude items rather than small sensitive items". I'm sure you understand the idea that you're much better off if your transformer on your street blows up from lightning vs the voltage regulators on your motherboard.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
Worse, in rare cases, a 'magic box' protector can create (and has created) fire. If found in your luggage, that magic box protector may be confiscated by a cruise ship. They take stateroom fires seriously. Did you also know about that? Or did you foolishly want to believe spin and lies promoted by advertising, wild speculation, and hearsay. They will not even justify their claims with honest numbers.

Did you know that APC quietly recommended some 15 million protectors be removed immediately - due to fires?
A transient that a consumer electronic device protection might protect from is often made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. A surge too tiny to damage electronics can also destroy that near zero joule 'magic box'. That gets the naive to wildly speculate, "My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer." Total bull. That near zero joule protector did exactly what the manufacturer said it would do. Fail. Then sales and profits increase.

Superior protection already inside the attaches appliance protected that appliance.
Don't bring a lead-acid battery on an airplane/boat/whatever; got it. As well, don't use an APC backup made between 1993 and 2002: got it. Did you know that toasters have burned houses down? Vacuum cleaners? Light bulbs? TVs? Every component powered by something that has enough energy to set something on fire could theoretically do it. Christ, even cellphones catch fire, so the fact that a battery backup might fail is hardly an indication of anything. Now, if they're more likely to catch fire than most other components is your home, that'd be something, but I'm waiting for your citation for that one, because Google doesn't seem to know about it. Again, I'm not sure if you've read the previous links, but hopefully you now understand that basic electrical concepts are very far from magic; these concepts might be magic to you, but they're actually very simple.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
If you do not have 'whole house' protection, then a protector fire is even a rare possibility. The informed consumer spends about $1 per protected appliance to protect from all surges including direct lightning strikes. Then that consumer electronic device protection is protected - should not fail on a surge too tiny to damage other appliances.

But again, we are still unlearning widely believed myths and lies. Still learning what is required to have protection. Still confronting urban myths. When you are ready to admit to that scam, then we can move on to effective and well proven solutions.
Who is "we"? Are the "myths" that electronic components are destroyed by reasonably low-joule surges? I can assure you that most people generally understand a surge suppressor will not properly deal with the amount of energy that would liquefy the electrical wiring in your home. They also know that the likelihood of your single surge suppressor taking the entire brunt of a direct lightning strike is extremely unlikely. I'm not sure what this $1 is ... maybe part of home insurance? Does it include offsite backups for my data? If so, I'll pay that in a second.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 9:55 am
BTW, will a direct lighning strike burn down the house? Research done long ago by the US Forestry Service proved that well over 90% of all trees directly struck by lightning had no appreciable damage. Direct lighting strikes blocks away to utility wires is also a direct lightning strike to every household appliance. Damage - not fire - is the more common and completely avoidable event. Damage from a direct lightning strikes means a human made a mistake. A glaring and common mistake is summarized above - a magic box protector.
Will lightning burn down a house? Google says yes, as does video proof . Lightning sets forests on fire all the time, so logic would dictate it can set a house on fire pretty easy (FYI: houses are generally made of wood in Canada; very dry wood). For reference, 1,000,000,000 joules of energy (lightning bolt) > 1000 joules (a match) (> means "greater than"). If a match can set wood on fire, a lightning bolt definitely can.
One who is offended by truth, has no place among those who seek wisdom.
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heyyahblah wrote:
Jul 12th, 2017 6:56 pm
I lost a hard drive once to a power surge while it was in operation. Never came back. After that I've been an APC man ever since, regardless of where I live, in the city or in the sticks. I feel better knowing my computer won't shut-off in a power surge blip if I am in the middle of something, or it will automatically run the shutdown procedure if I am AFK. If you invest in an expensive PC, invest in an APC/UPC. No questions.
The batteries are always really expensive....Such a pain/annoyance.
Gee wrote:
Jul 13th, 2017 9:53 am
There is no reason not to have one. A cheap 600va CyberPower unit is between $45 - $60 when on sale.
Where? I think you need to go to where it's being sold.... these things are super expensive to ship? I still plan on ordering a battery but the cheapest I can find is around $80 (for an older APC XS800 model).
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badOne wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 11:30 am
The main use of a UPS isn't a direct lightning strike - those are rare and likely nothing will protect against that.. The UPS to supplies its own power to the small appliances instead of the dirtier power coming in from the wall socket in case of brown outs.
Brownouts do not damage electronics. Brownouts are potentially harmful to motorized appliances including refrigerator, furnace, vacuum cleaner, and central air. If a UPS is necessary, then it must power those motorized appliances.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And perfectly good voltage for computers. How often do your bulbs dime that much? Never? UPS is recommended to protect hardware from something that, first, does not exist, and second, is not harmful to electronics.

Destructive brownout is a classic urban myth invented to promote sales of expensive and unnecessary boxes. If a brownout is destructive, then numbers from a datasheet identify an 'at risk' part. Numbers are not provided because the threat and resulting damage does not exist - except to motorized appliances.

Informed homeowners spend tens or 100 times less money for protection from all potentially destructive surges - including direct lightning strikes. UPS does not claim even to protect from surges too tiny to damage any appliance. It only claims to 'absorb' surges routinely converted by computer power supplies into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors. In short, best protection is already inside electronics. Tiniest protection is in the UPS. Anyone can read spec numbers. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Just enough above zero so that the naive will recommend it as 100% protection.

Nobody said use nothing. Please read what was written. Best protection at each appliance is already inside each appliance. Your concern is a transient that can overwhelm that best protection. A transient that might occur once every seven years. A transient does not overwhelm superior protection in ALL appliances - using a best and over 100 year old solution that costs about $1 per protected appliance.
Last edited by westom on Jul 14th, 2017 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 7:42 pm
Brownouts do not damage electronics. Brownouts are potentially harmful to motorized appliances including refrigerator, furnace, vacuum cleaner, and central air. If a UPS is necessary, then it must power those motorized appliances.

Voltage can drop so low that incandescent bulbs dim to 40% intensity. Potentially harmful to motorized appliances. And perfectly good voltage for computers. How often do your bulbs dime that much? Never? UPS is recommended to protect hardware from something that, first, does not exist, and second, is not harmful to electronics.

Destructive brownout is a classic urban myth invented to promote sales of expensive and unnecessary boxes. If a brownout is destructive, then numbers from a datasheet identify an 'at risk' part. Numbers are not provided because the threat and resulting damage does not exist - except to motorized appliances.

Informed homeowners spend tens or 100 times less money for protection from all potentially destructive surges - including direct lightning strikes. UPS does not claim even to protect from surges too tiny to damage any appliance. It only claims to 'absorb' surges routinely converted by computer power supplies into rock stable, low DC voltages to safely power its semiconductors. In short, best protection is already inside electronics. Tiniest protection is in the UPS. Anyone can read spec numbers. How many joules does it claim to absorb? Just enough above zero so that the naive will recommend it as 100% protection.

Nobody said use nothing. Please read what was written. Best protection at each appliance is already inside each appliance. Your concern is a transient that can overwhelm that best protection. A transient that might occur once every seven years. A transient that will not overwhelm superior protection in ALL appliances - for about $1 per protected appliance.
Brown outs damage electronics. Prove to me it doesn't. I already experienced this first hand.

I don't think a PSU has enough protection to go naked into a wall socket. We're not here talking about a UPS that can power your whole home here. The OP is asking for advice for his computer system.
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teleguitar wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 6:24 pm
I still plan on ordering a battery but the cheapest I can find is around $80 (for an older APC XS800 model).
You didn't look too hard $35 here: http://www.upsforless.com/ubc109-2.aspx
If you are in or near Toronto, I've got a few extra.
westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 7:42 pm
UPS is recommended to protect hardware from something that, first, does not exist, and second, is not harmful to electronics.
Equipment costs a lot less to replace than the data.
Plain and simple, I use a UPS to protect my data. If it does not protect against everything like a lightning strike so be it. I have experienced a heck of a lot more power flickers and outages than lightning. I've never been hit by lightning. OTOH I do know 2 people that have suffered lighting strikes. I know more people that have won a lottery.

Getting a UPS for the pvr is more of a convenience. I don't like waiting for the 5 min reboots. I don't like missing a show in the middle of a series.
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What about a Line Conditioner? Wouldn't that be more effective against brownouts and dirty electricity?
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ROYinTO wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 8:23 pm
Plain and simple, I use a UPS to protect my data.
Please read what was posted. Nobody said 'data'. UPS does not protect saved data. It protects unsaved data.

It and a power conditioner do not even claim to protect electronic hardware. Otherwise someone have posted specifications numbers that claim that protection. Nobody has or can because even the manufacturer does not claim it.
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badOne wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 8:21 pm
Brown outs damage electronics. Prove to me it doesn't. I already experienced this first hand.
A conclusion made only from observation is a fact? We all learned this in elementary school science. Moldy bread creates life - breeds maggots. We observed this so it must be true. Standing water breeds life - insect larve. We observed this so it must be true.

If a brownout causes hardware damage, then you also know what part is damaged and why - with spec numbers. Then a conclusion is based in facts and honesty. Then a manufacturer spec numbers defines (with a number) the at risk part. Anyone can learn facts (see this ) Show me where damage from a brownout is defined. Why the expression "No Damage Region" in all capital letters. Because the entire voltage region down to zero must cause no damage.

An 'at risk' part is not and cannot be defined. Only classic junk science (proof by observation) reasoning justifies an extremely popular urban fable.

Destructive brownouts only exist where junk science is alive and well. You had damage. But wildly speculated (failed to learn with numbers) why that damage occurred.

Read standards that say why a power supply has best protection. Some computer supplies well exceed those standards. One 120 volt Seasonic supply defines protection up to 1800 volts. However, if one uses a plug-in protector, then that protection can be compromised (bypassed).

It is not about what you feel. It is about well defined specification numbers. You did not post numbers. So conclusion are based in junk science reasoning.
Last edited by westom on Jul 14th, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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westom wrote:
Jul 14th, 2017 7:42 pm
Brownouts do not damage electronics.
Link

Pesky math and verifiable knowledge; always there to prove the truth of a matter.

While brownouts generally simply result in stuff turning off, the other end is the electronics might start working much harder to maintain operation. As well, some electronics are very close to the bleeding edge of cheapness (monitors), and brownouts definitely can destroy their feeble power supplies.
One who is offended by truth, has no place among those who seek wisdom.

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