Computers & Electronics

UPS backup power supply worth it?

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 12th, 2017 6:54 pm
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
SickBeast wrote:
Jul 20th, 2017 9:08 pm
Ok I will share something with you. I have a near genius IQ.
That post was for badone. But youir post got in just before his reply was posted. A reply to a good question is next.
Deal Addict
Dec 12, 2009
2256 posts
692 upvotes
Toronto
westom wrote:
Jul 20th, 2017 9:12 pm
Your question was gobbelty gook. Do you want an answer? They write a question with cohesive and coherent sentences.
Been there, done that. Never got a cohesive and coherent answer.
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
SickBeast wrote:
Jul 20th, 2017 8:51 pm
Ok so I read all that but I still don't feel that you have actually directly said what we need to buy. Do we need to purchase and install a lightning rod?
Lightning rod is defined as protection of a structure. Then a direct lightning strike does not create a high voltage (high energy) destructively in that structure.

Properly earthed incoming wires (ie a 'whole house' protector) was defined as protection of appliances. Then a direct lighting strike (ie many blocks down the street) does not create high voltage (high energy) destructively inside appliances.

In all cases, protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. In both cases, neither a lightning rod nor protector provide the protection. In both cases, those are only connecting devices to what does protection - earth ground.

Listed were companies of integrity that make this commodity called a 'whole house' protector. Just like rice, only parameters matter.

Go to any electrical supply house or big box hardware store. Ask for their 'whole house' protector. Since lightning is maybe 20,000 amps, then a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Those numbers define a protector's life expectancy over many surges.

Critical is quality of and connection to earth ground. That defines protection during each surge. Earthing is the 'art'.

Some numbers. Connection must be low impedance (ie less than 3 meters). It must be to single point earth ground (all four words have electrical significance). Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to that same electrode either directly (ie TV cable, satellite dish, OTA antenna) or via a protector (ie telephone, AC electric).

What is purchased is simple science. What must exist (the 'art') requires most attention.

Above defines your 'secondary' protection layer. Each layer of protection is only defined by the item that actually absorbs even hundreds of thousands of joules. A protector (and a lightning rod) is only as effective as its earth ground.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
24888 posts
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East Gwillimbury
SickBeast wrote:
Jul 20th, 2017 9:08 pm
My apologies, guys. This guy is trolling all of us.
I've said it in post 62
I don't understand why he just can't give a straight answer but will spend 10 minutes crafting a reply that tells you basically nothing.
But after several days and many hours of useless replies, he gives us a convoluted post basically telling you to buy a whole house surge suppressor.

All that crap and the answer is four words.
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Jul 20th, 2017 11:57 pm
All that crap and the answer is four words.
Only the most technically naive (ie you) believe a fuse does protection.

Learn to read. World's best 'whole house' protector is ineffective if, well, I leave you reread it many times. Then eyes may eventually unglaze. Reality is found in paragraphs; not in an extremist inspired soundbyte. World's best 'whole house' protector can be ineffective. But that means reading paragraphs and undoing entrenched brainwashing.

Even this concept is too complicated. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. It was not in a first paragraph so you did not comprehend it.

Four words cannot describe any effective solution. Paragraphs do.
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Dec 12, 2009
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Toronto
westom wrote:
Jul 21st, 2017 8:30 am
Four words cannot describe any effective solution. Paragraphs do.
Answer = ground
What = a few words.
How = verbosity ad nauseum.
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
ROYinTO wrote:
Jul 21st, 2017 9:41 am
Answer = ground
Not just any ground. Not just any connection. Concepts such as equipotential apply. A word too large to fit into a soundbyte.

Soundbytes have no numbers; are akin to a lie.

Soundbytes are classic junk science. Even earth ground is not safety ground in a receptacle or chassis ground in an appliance. That and more is the simple stuff that any kid can learn. But too hard for extremists who need answers in a soundbyte.

Protection is always about how hundreds of thousands of joules are connected to and harmlessly absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its (low impedance) connection to and quality of earth ground.

Impedance? Another essential concept unknown to the brainwashed manipulated by soundbytes. Impedance: too complicated for anyone who can only read soundbytes. Impedance: essential for installing effective protection and defined by a number.

Numbers - too complicated for soundbyte logic.
Deal Expert
Aug 2, 2004
24888 posts
2581 upvotes
East Gwillimbury
westom wrote:
Jul 21st, 2017 8:30 am
Only the most technically naive (ie you) believe a fuse does protection.

Learn to read. World's best 'whole house' protector is ineffective if, well, I leave you reread it many times. Then eyes may eventually unglaze. Reality is found in paragraphs; not in an extremist inspired soundbyte. World's best 'whole house' protector can be ineffective. But that means reading paragraphs and undoing entrenched brainwashing.

Even this concept is too complicated. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. It was not in a first paragraph so you did not comprehend it.

Four words cannot describe any effective solution. Paragraphs do.
This is a new low. Now you are insulting people

I may not have a genius IQ like @SickBeast, but I am able to manage a civil conversation and not drown the point in excess verbiage that basically tells me nothing. All you had to say was, get a whole house surge from a reputable vendor. Make sure your home is properly grounded. Two sentences gets the point across where your multiple posts and several paragraphs tells us "naive" people nothing.

The glazed eyes? That's your fault, you lost your audience after a few sentences of rambling on about nothing. You want reality? You're not articulate and you talk in circles. If I asked you what the time is? I don't need to stand there for 15 minutes listening to you TRYING to explain Greenwich Mean Time and telling me that I am asking the wrong question. Just because I didn't ask you what time it is relative to GMT?

You really are a troll.
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
Gee wrote:
Jul 21st, 2017 11:15 am
This is a new low. Now you are insulting people
Only the naive believe a fuse provides surge protection. That's not an insult. That is basic electrical knowledge that you did not learn. Defined by numbers that you repeatedly ignored.

You can be insulted. But that technical fact does not change. Fuses do not protect appliances. Fuses protect humans AFTER hardware is damaged.

You can read to learn or not read to insult. You made a choice. Demonstrated (with numbers) is how little you know; but still make recommendations (actually accusations) rather than ask to learn.

OP asked if a UPS is better than a surge protector. No. It's numbers say it does less than a plug-in protector. A properly earthed 'whole house' protector effectively protects that near zero joule power strip and that UPS. For about $1 per protected appliance. That is by far the OP's best solution. Amazing how reality (and numbers) make so many so angry.
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Mar 31, 2017
1198 posts
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you way of explaining needs work. Not even university lecturers would get away with the way you communicate. It's very subpar. You just go in circles and call it answering a question. What could have been said in 1-3 sentences now takes up pages of text.
Deal Guru
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Mar 6, 2003
10493 posts
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Ottawa
this thread should just die.

Feel sorry for the few who might actually stumble into this thread and have the unfortunate experience of wading through verbal diarrhea masquerading as advice. Internet is full of people so high on themselves.....just learn to ignore them.
Honey, I can't go to bed yet. Somebody is wrong on the Internet!
[OP]
Member
Dec 6, 2012
400 posts
103 upvotes
Regina
Did not expect such a heated discussion...
Member
Jul 6, 2009
223 posts
33 upvotes
waloshin wrote:
Jul 22nd, 2017 2:21 am
Did not expect such a heated discussion...
Ignore the many replies that are emotional, subjective (no numbers), say nothing technical, are insults, and do not say what the solution does. So few remaining are your best solution. A post just before your last one demonstrates how ignorant and childish so many can be.

View spec numbers for that UPS. How many joules does it claim to absorb in the category called 'surge protection'? Hundreds? That is near zero. Just enough above zero to that the naive will adamantly insist it is 100% protection.

Does that protector have a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground? Not wall receptacle safety ground - earth ground. If not, then even it must be protected by something routinely installed (earthed) so that damage cannot happen.

Plenty of reasons stated why companies of integrity sell a 'whole house' solution. Even numbers say why earth ground does the protection and why a protector is only a connecting device to that protection.

That summarizes some reasons for a best solution. Do you need professional citations with numbers that also explains this? Those can also be provided in reams. But only by someone who has done this stuff for many decades.

Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Don't remember if I also mentioned it. Above is your 'secondary' protection layer. Also inspect your 'primary' layer of protection. Plenty to learn. But only from the fewer who bluntly state what these things really do - with numbers.
Newbie
Jul 22, 2012
18 posts
10 upvotes
waloshin wrote:
Jul 22nd, 2017 2:21 am
Did not expect such a heated discussion...
Did you get an answer to your original question?

As someone who designs critical (UPS) electrical distribution for data centres, I can help out if you'd like.

(FYI - Near all of the technical aspects of Westom's posts are correct, however it's just very hard to follow the thought process, let alone filter out the arrogance and superiority complex that's going on.)

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