Thread: UPS Brokerage Bill?!?!?
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Feb 8th, 2012 09:24 PM
#31

Originally Posted by
Kasakato
The package is unsolicited after it was rejected on the basis of additional brokerage charges. Our OP turned the package away - UPS had completed its due diligence by making a delivery attempt. The fact UPS later came back and dropped the package off again, without the OP requesting it, makes any additional charges extraneous as condition to delivery.
Again, just like you said, the OP is not responsible for unsolicited goods. There simply is no obligation to pay.
With all due respect, you're wrong here.
The contract was between the buyer and the seller. The buyer ordered the product from the seller, and therefore it is not an unsolicited product.
OP may not have accepted the shipping company's (UPS) delivery terms, but he would have undoubtedly accepted the seller's terms.
The buyer is quite within his rights to dispute the charges from the shipping company, but he is still fully liable for the actual item.
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Feb 8th, 2012 09:49 PM
#32

Originally Posted by
NG
He refused the package when told of the duties the first time. Often online stores don't tell the customer who the shipper will be and sometimes will even switch shippers without notifying the customer.
No bearing on the buyer's contract with the seller. The item was not unsolicited and therefore OP is responsible for it until it has been returned to the seller or they can prove the item was refused at delivery and retained by the shipping company.
After he refused the package he did his duty. The fact that the package was left like it was a piece of trash on his property after the fact is secondary.
I'm verging on agreeing with you on this statement, however the fact OP accepted the redelivered item by opening it and keeping it is key...and certainly far from being secondary.
There's no risk for me to take (when using a PAYG phone)
Oh, yes there is...you run the risk of using up your prepaid time if there's something pressing or time consuming. I've been there and done that.
nor would I go to the trouble of plugging in my headset or use a payphone to clean up his mistake.
There was no mistake. This is a redelivery attempt (legitimate or not, the burden of proof would be the OP's to establish), and part of that burden of proof would be to establish a good faith and reasonable effort to refuse the re/delivered package. Simply saying "I didn't want to experience the high level of stress involved in plugging in a headset or picking up the handset on a payphone and dialling a toll-free number" wouldn't cut it. It's not at all unreasonable to send an Email or pick up a phone or plug in a headset to arrange a pickup of an incorrectly delivered item.
UPS is lucky the OP just didn't leave the package out there to be stolen and then filed a chargeback since it wasn't properly delivered.
Wouldn't have had much bearing on UPS at all, unless their contract with the seller outlined full liability. Having said that, the scenario you are suggesting would result in the buyer being legally liable for the cost of the item (and therefore a chargeback being refused) because OP did nothing to mitigate the loss.
You never said he could incur higher costs if he didn't pay. You said he could incur higher costs if he even contested the charge.
...and one contests the charges by refusing to pay (at least, that's how it's usually done). While you certainly can dispute charges after you pay them, often you're in a better negotiating position if you refuse payment first. Not always, but often.
There is no risk of higher fees simply to dispute the charges however
To basically say "I disagree with these charges..." as a dispute, no. But if the dispute involves a refusal to pay and results in court action being taken in order to recover the outstanding disputed fees, there very well could be court fees and legal fees. Those are the fees to which I was referring in my original comment, and summarised in a followup post. There could even be other fees. I've never been sued before, so I wouldn't know. I'm sorry I wrote in an unclear fashion causing you to misinterpret my statement, but thanks for requoting it in context.
I'm sure misrepresent what you said again to defend your position.
...I notice you've done a good job at attempting to misrepresent what I and others have said, so I guess you're an expert at misrepresentation? I'm just glad you're not a lawyer.
Last edited by iamnotamerican.com; Feb 8th, 2012 at 09:54 PM.
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Feb 9th, 2012 07:17 AM
#33

Originally Posted by
iamnotamerican.com
With all due respect, you're wrong here.
The contract was between the buyer and the seller. The buyer ordered the product from the seller, and therefore it is not an unsolicited product.
OP may not have accepted the shipping company's (UPS) delivery terms, but he would have undoubtedly accepted the seller's terms.
The buyer is quite within his rights to dispute the charges from the shipping company, but he is still fully liable for the actual item.
We never were discussing the obligation to pay the vendor, only UPS's brokerage fee.
Even if we were discussing an obligation to pay the seller, the specifics of the agreement between the buyer and merchant would come into play - its impossible to speculate further without that agreement.
Last edited by Kasakato; Feb 9th, 2012 at 07:27 AM.
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Feb 9th, 2012 07:33 AM
#34

Originally Posted by
iamnotamerican.com
I'm verging on agreeing with you on this statement, however the fact OP accepted the redelivered item by opening it and keeping it is key...and certainly far from being secondary.
There was no mistake. This is a redelivery attempt (legitimate or not, the burden of proof would be the OP's to establish), and part of that burden of proof would be to establish a good faith and reasonable effort to refuse the re/delivered package. Simply saying "I didn't want to experience the high level of stress involved in plugging in a headset or picking up the handset on a payphone and dialling a toll-free number" wouldn't cut it. It's not at all unreasonable to send an Email or pick up a phone or plug in a headset to arrange a pickup of an incorrectly delivered item.
The OP took a positive and conscious effort to reject the package at the door on the grounds that it was not wanted after brokerage is assessed. That in and of itself is his duty to contest the charge, no further action is necessary.
UPS has already been sued for this exact issue. A preliminary decision was rendered last year finding that brokerage services are in fact unsolicited services under the CPA.
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