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May 17, 2005
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flyingnurse wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 10:13 am
When I have to delete a post or even delete a thread I started there is a box that appears which asks for a reason. Granted I don't need to put anything in that box but perhaps that same system but tweaked can be used for providing a reason for a downvote.
great idea
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flyingnurse wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 10:13 am
When I have to delete a post or even delete a thread I started there is a box that appears which asks for a reason. Granted I don't need to put anything in that box but perhaps that same system but tweaked can be used for providing a reason for a downvote.
Who would you propose have access to see the reason? The public? The OP?
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lubmar wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 10:33 am
great idea
Requesting a reason for downvoting has been suggested repeatedly throughout this thread (and a few others too.)
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WorldIRC wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 11:17 am
Who would you propose have access to see the reason? The public? The OP?
I see no reason why it shouldn't be public. That might also serve as a learning opportunity for lurkers, especially new ones, who may not be familiar with RFD rules, RFD culture, etc.

I would suggest a pull down list or set of radio buttons to make selection of the reason easier. Of course there would need to be an "Other" category and associated text box for situations that don't match any of the standard ones.

That said, the more I think about it the less convinced I am that Downvoting, even with explanations, serves much purpose. Clear violations of the rules are best Reported so they can be dealt with right away. Lesser infractions can be dealt with informally, e.g. a polite post that tells someone their deal isn't as hot as they think it is, that they've left some critical piece of information about the deal, etc.
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bylo wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 11:31 am
I see no reason why it shouldn't be public. That might also serve as a learning opportunity for lurkers, especially new ones, who may not be familiar with RFD rules, RFD culture, etc.

I would suggest a pull down list or set of radio buttons to make selection of the reason easier. Of course there would need to be an "Other" category and associated text box for situations that don't match any of the standard ones.

That said, the more I think about it the less convinced I am that Downvoting, even with explanations, serves much purpose. Clear violations of the rules are best Reported so they can be dealt with right away. Lesser infractions can be dealt with informally, e.g. a polite post that tells someone their deal isn't as hot as they think it is, that they've left some critical piece of information about the deal, etc.
Perhaps in this box, the admins could add a short disclaimer / guidelines as to when to use downvotes. AKA, do not issue a downvote if the post breaks the rules, report instead.
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WorldIRC wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 11:40 am
Perhaps in this box, the admins could add a short disclaimer / guidelines as to when to use downvotes. AKA, do not issue a downvote if the post breaks the rules, report instead.
Good idea! There could also be a link to Report which would make reporting even more convenient. Indeed, I suppose both "reporting" and "downvoting" could be incorporated into the existing Report link and page. That might also discourage impulsive and even accidental downvoting because now the Up and Down icons are so close together. Anyway, food for thought.
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bylo wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 11:56 am
Good idea! There could also be a link to Report which would make reporting even more convenient. Indeed, I suppose both "reporting" and "downvoting" could be incorporated into the existing Report link and page. That might also discourage impulsive and even accidental downvoting because now the Up and Down icons are so close together. Anyway, food for thought.
Thank you for the feedback. Ultimately, the admins will need to first decide if they keep downvoting or not. If they choose to keep it, they'll have to determine if they publicize it, if they add reason codes, if they integrate reporting, etc...
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bylo wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 11:31 am
That said, the more I think about it the less convinced I am that Downvoting, even with explanations, serves much purpose. Clear violations of the rules are best Reported so they can be dealt with right away. Lesser infractions can be dealt with informally, e.g. a polite post that tells someone their deal isn't as hot as they think it is, that they've left some critical piece of information about the deal, etc.
Pretty much this, its been tried elsewhere to bad effect as well. We seemed to do fine with the thanks button, though the downvoter fans passionately defend their new "rights"...
Lies, damned lies, statistics and alternative facts
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WorldIRC wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 12:07 pm
Thank you for the feedback. Ultimately, the admins will need to first decide if they keep downvoting or not. If they choose to keep it, they'll have to determine if they publicize it, if they add reason codes, if they integrate reporting, etc...
I realize that. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything (although obviously I have opinions ;)) I'm just trying to provide some input now that we've all experienced the Up/Down voting regime for the past year or so, in the hope that whatever the admins come up with best serves the RFD community.
Quentin5 wrote:
Aug 3rd, 2017 12:12 pm
Pretty much this, its been tried elsewhere to bad effect as well. We seemed to do fine with the thanks button, though the downvoter fans passionately defend their new "rights"...
Thanks. Upvote. Kudos. They all serve the purpose of recognizing those posts that add value to the community and encourage others to emulate them. Positive reinforcement is always appreciated. Negativity usually isn't. It's human nature.
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I'm honestly not on here very much, can't afford to be buying stuff a lot so I tried to stay away from Hot Deals for a while. Came back and saw up/down votes, personally I think it's great. I love having a "score" I can see in the thread listings and sort by, gives me a really general idea before clicking into the thread as to an overall feeling on it.
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Sphexi wrote:
Aug 4th, 2017 1:17 pm
I'm honestly not on here very much, can't afford to be buying stuff a lot so I tried to stay away from Hot Deals for a while. Came back and saw up/down votes, personally I think it's great. I love having a "score" I can see in the thread listings and sort by, gives me a really general idea before clicking into the thread as to an overall feeling on it.
But if you don't know why it has this score, especially the down votes, what good is it to you? Bypassing the thread because of only +5 does not mean there wasn't some campaign against the poster. That is the thrust of this thread. What good are down votes if they are not visible. Just do away with them entirely.
It's alright if you don't agree with me... I can't force you to be right. - Anonymous
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Pete_Coach wrote:
Aug 4th, 2017 6:14 pm
But if you don't know why it has this score, especially the down votes, what good is it to you? Bypassing the thread because of only +5 does not mean there wasn't some campaign against the poster. That is the thrust of this thread. What good are down votes if they are not visible. Just do away with them entirely.
Case in point is this thread: [Plex] Plex Pass - Lifetime Subscription $159.99 CAD (20% off) but now with PLEX TV!! has -23 net votes (+13, -36).

So is it really such a bad deal as the votes suggest? And if the answer is obvious, then why is the thread now 12 pages long?
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bylo wrote:
Aug 5th, 2017 7:27 am
Case in point is this thread: [Plex] Plex Pass - Lifetime Subscription $159.99 CAD (20% off) but now with PLEX TV!! has -23 net votes (+13, -36).

So is it really such a bad deal as the votes suggest? And if the answer is obvious, then why is the thread now 12 pages long?
Historically, it seems this is not the lowest price (someone commented it was available for $99 before, current hot deal price $159). Some other posters highlight the product limitations. Other members suggest alternatives that work better for them. Among other things. The posters in that thread are diverse and in a quick browsing I didn't notice any opinionated fan / anti-fan. Summarizing: the thread discussion looks healthy, the deal and the product both have valuations and the thread score reflects that spread on evaluations for the product and its price [bad price is compared to historical, bad product when compared to some alternatives or circumstances, etc vs still good price compared to cable, etc]

IMO, that thread is a case where the thread score system functions as devised (as a summary for the tread, as a caveat and as an indicator of deal hotness). IINM, the downvotes cast for the opening posts do not count in the [OP] record/statistics, so for the [OP] those downvotes should be irrelevant.
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aviador wrote:
Aug 5th, 2017 3:10 pm
Historically, it seems this is not the lowest price (someone commented it was available for $99 before, current hot deal price $159).
So what? No one knows if there will again be a similar offer as low as $99--or even $159 for that matter. We'll only know retrospectively next time Plex has a similar promo.
Some other posters highlight the product limitations. Other members suggest alternatives that work better for them. Among other things.
None of that makes it a bad deal. It may be bad for some and good for others. There may be better alternatives for others still. But that's my point--you can't deduce any of that from the negative votes alone.
Summarizing: the thread discussion looks healthy
Which those who judge the book[thread] by its cover[vote] would miss.
the thread score reflects that spread on evaluations for the product and its price [bad price is compared to historical, bad product when compared to some alternatives or circumstances, etc vs still good price compared to cable, etc]

IMO, that thread is a case where the thread score system functions as devised (as a summary for the tread, as a caveat and as an indicator of deal hotness).
Again, I disagree that the price is necessarily bad. We won't know if it really is until the next time Plex has a promo. As for the product's merits, as a user of both Plex (free version) and Kodi, I don't think there's a clear winner. It really depends on each individual's needs. So for me the vote count turned out to be useless but the content of the thread turned out to be priceless.
IINM, the downvotes cast for the opening posts do not count in the [OP] record/statistics, so for the [OP] those downvotes should be irrelevant.
You aren't mistaken. Even so the OP may be disappointed in the negative reaction to their thread. In any case in this thread the net vote count isn't very useful in judging either the merits of the deal or, especially, the value of the contents of the thread. (At least only IMO, of course.)
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bylo wrote:
Aug 5th, 2017 4:00 pm
So what? No one knows if there will again be a similar offer as low as $99--or even $159 for that matter. We'll only know retrospectively next time Plex has a similar promo.

None of that makes it a bad deal. It may be bad for some and good for others. There may be better alternatives for others still. But that's my point--you can't deduce any of that from the negative votes alone.

I would go a step further and say that in many cases even the future price doesn't matter. If you need an item *today*, you are looking for the best deal available in the market right now, not the best deal that was available on Boxing Day 2016 or the best deal that might become available on Black Friday in 2017. Posts which provide info about a sale that provides the best currently available price/quality option can be very useful.

My observation on the net voting scores is that they are useless for saving me money. The highest scores are usually given to silly deals like the McDonalds $0.69 cheesburgers or the McDonalds free small coffee for a week posts. There's nothing particularly wrong with those posts, but in my wildest dreams, those silly deals might only save me $5 or $10. They get a net score of 200, but are nearly worthless to me. A good post on a hot dishwasher deal might save me $300 or $400, but it'll have a score of 6 or 8 net up-votes. Same deal with posts on car purchases, financial products or furniture.

In my case, I'll happily take those unpopular threads which actually save me big bucks, and screw the silly Dollarama posts that only have the potential to save me $3 but have an astronomical thread score. The thread score is beyond useless.

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