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Deal Expert
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May 10, 2005
27701 posts
3850 upvotes
Ottawa
flyingnurse wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 2:23 am
Not sure why there is a removal of the down vote system just because some people abuse it. I will say that there are probably a good number of replies or threads that deserve down votes but now I will have to read them and find the info to decide for myself whether the thread is useful in any way or not (especially in hot deals). Rather than removing it I still think it should be revamped so that a person must provide a reason for a down vote which is visible to only the person who received the down vote. This would curb a lot of abuse because now trolls will need to type stuff rather than just click a button.
The question should be "Not sure why there is a down vote system at all"? What is/was it's purpose? What was to be attained by it? Who gains with down votes? What is to be gained by down votes?
If your solution is to have to provide a reason before you can down vote, I ask why? If you say to keep it private, again why, what is to be gained between you and the downvoter? Surly you can not expect it to remain that without backlash? You really cannot think it would stop abuse? Or cause more?
'Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional minority, and rabidly promoted by unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds the proposition that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.' Anonymous
Deal Fanatic
Feb 9, 2006
7460 posts
1577 upvotes
Brampton
Quentin5 wrote:
Aug 19th, 2017 1:29 pm
So we want competitive posts and trophies?
How about we look for deals and give others the benefits of our experience, if i know how to save you money on your energy bills and you know what cars are reliable we can exchange information and both benefit. Hence not like sports games at all.
Because Gamification don't cha know. (I don't support it as a magic bullet. it has it's uses but I don't think it works here).
I find that trophies and blah blah are used in certain communities to help gamify them to increase participation. The side effect sometimes is the toxic attitude that comes with it. Example Google uses it with their places in maps, but that's a whole other ball game.
Penalty Box
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Feb 9, 2009
686 posts
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dollarsign wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 2:41 am
Why does everyone have to be spoon-fed opinions? Can't you decide for yourself? What has become of this community? You're going to risk 2 minutes of your life to form your own opinion.
I didn't want to downvote your post, but I should because it does not reflect the reality of this forum. Winking Face Many threads on this forum go for several hundred pages, useful posts become extremely hard to find among mediocrity, and 2 days of reading a thread may be not enough to form an opinion, if good share of posts contain purposely falsified information which benefits the topic started or company behind it. Removing downvotes completely would serve no useful purpose for majority of this community, people who come here for good deals, and no longer be able to identify whether other members shared experience is true or false. Here is a good example, but there are too many to list.

If you read this "Upvote and Downvote" thread, including your post, you would notice that many members didn't post any plausible arguments why exactly downvote in their view should be removed, but instead substituted it with excessive emotions that can't possibly be considered good arguments because they can be applied to just about any topic with zero meaning. Smiling Face With Open Mouth In social, political, cultural topics, which are primarily offtop on this best deals forum, upvote & downvote system can be viewed as redundant since people are entitled to express there views and interpretations of events. But in sharing experience whether a reported service or goods actually cost the money a seller is asking for, whether offered terms of a deal are actually maintained by the provider - upvote and downvote system serves its purpose, it allows to identify and mark persistently misleading info given on this forum to defraud other members. This is unfortunate part of our life, but it does exist whether we want it or not, and we as consumers need tools to mark frauds on this forum. My own posts are frequently upvoted and/or downvoted, but downvotes almost exclusively occur on social and economic topics where members are clearly divided on two opposite groups, and each group often financially benefits from own interpretation of the same events. I don't recall any downvotes received on factual "best deal" related topics, since sharing factual useful in the posts, whether negative or positive about the deal, causes no reasons for downvote. Audience in "good deal" topics is different - they are looking for dollar value, not to protect their political or cultural views.

Hence, the tools to implement Upvote & Downvote system must be flexible to reflect different nature of various topics on this forum, and varying participants motivation.
Deal Guru
Jan 7, 2002
10182 posts
3124 upvotes
Waterloo, ON
flyingnurse wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 2:23 am
now I will have to read them and find the info to decide for myself whether the thread is useful in any way or not (especially in hot deals)
As I understand it, up/down votes will remain on the initial post in a thread. That should still give you a consensus on whether a deal is good or a discussion is worthwile. If you think it is based on that rating, feel free to read the thread. If not, then move on. What's being removed are down votes on individual posts because experience has shown that these are often personal attacks, people on agendas. Moreover down votes on individual posts, unless they're accompanied with a textual reason for the vote, are usually useless in moving the discussion forward.
veni, vidi, Visa
Penalty Box
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Feb 9, 2009
686 posts
267 upvotes
bylo wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 10:28 am
As I understand it, up/down votes will remain on the initial post in a thread.
If that's the case, its irrational. Some posts contain rich and extremely useful info, while most posts in every thread are near meaningless fillers. So there must be tools for users to at least Upvote info rich posts regardless whether left by a topic starter initially, or posted much later by someone else. Stripping the site from existing tools isn't going to make it more popular or useful on its own. May be you noticed, some folks receive consistently neg votes in social-economic topics, but that doesn't prevent them from posting again and again on every page for years. People get used to it, and ignore constant opposition, especially when driven by financial motifs.
Newbie
Aug 9, 2017
74 posts
47 upvotes
And me who thought down votes were actually up votes from someone suffering from Down Syndrome!!! We never stop learning, don't we? Who knows, maybe they really are, LOL.
Deal Expert
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Dec 26, 2005
15091 posts
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Thornhill
arnycus wrote:
Aug 21st, 2017 3:07 pm
I'll give you an example. Some smaller internet providers advertise fast speeds at low price and extra perks. As number of users grow, they start posting mixed reviews with test results showing bad deal. The provider then offers some perks to a group of subscribers or own employees, who then post on regular basis the service is excellent, and also blackmail their competitors. But frequent forum members quickly recognize the paid nature of such ongoing non-substantiated posts, and start repeatedly down voting them to alert potential new subscribers of false information. We seen it again and again, and some such people and companies were banned on FRD. So flexibility in this matter may actually help forum admins to identify the bad guys.

Yes, this feature is at times abused. So on social topics it may be blocked, but on purely good deal topics it may be left on. Professional topics is a different matter. Lets say a guy thinks he discovered some good ideas on improving a house. But a real pro can read such post and object, these ideas violate electrical or building, or fire code, or best practices. I wouldn't take it personally, but rather learn a few new knowledge bits. So, why don't give it to the mods to decide on thread by thread basis? Of course, it requires the On/Off switch to be implemented any way.
Makes sense, but there is no reason that downvotes should be anonymous at all. Either scrap the entire system, or make it useful and design it so that it can't be abused.

bjl
What we do in life echoes in Eternity... and in Google cache.
RFD discounts for Schluter products
Penalty Box
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Feb 9, 2009
686 posts
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t3359 wrote:
Aug 22nd, 2017 10:54 pm
Makes sense, but there is no reason that downvotes should be anonymous at all.
They are anonymous to lessen retaliation. But people usually know their regular opponents. Downvotes are irritating if I know a guy's agenda is reasonable, but regularly downvoted. Smiling Face With Open Mouth That's why I suggest to leave the system as is, but give the mods a feature to switch it off in social-economic, cultural, and political topics regardless in what sections they are. For example, lately Housing Bubble topics become very hot, and they are largely social-economic, where people are divided into 2 groups: one benefits from the bubble, the other is suffering from it. As the government tries to address the problem, the tone of the discussion gets hotter. Obviously, no need for post voting in such threads. Another example would be NAFTA Agreement or political personalities, or say musicians or songs related. But when talking of a better TV Set deal or a new Rogers Mobile sub, the devil is in small print, in details. People should be able to assess shared stories, as some of them are designed to incline folks make misinformed buying choices. For example, I know Bylo tends to give good and detail advice based on personal experience in topics I was interested in. But I also know, some other members are provider reps, who post on several similar forums, and behave dishonestly & bash competitors. So I'd be very cautious to listen to their stories.
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Jun 15, 2012
9532 posts
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Anonymity wasn't a good idea. I don't have 'regular' adversaries to point to who downed me. It's too easy to click it and we have our fair share of immature members who abuse it.
Deal Addict
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Jan 15, 2013
1432 posts
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Ottawa
AncasterRFD wrote:
Aug 23rd, 2017 12:07 pm
Anonymity wasn't a good idea. I don't have 'regular' adversaries to point to who downed me. It's too easy to click it and we have our fair share of immature members who abuse it.
and mature...
"Doing my part to encourage civil discourse by not downvoting."
Deal Guru
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Feb 8, 2014
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Yes we can explain away anything and rationalize protecting trolls, but pretending trolling is okay and ignoring reality won't get us very far. That stops no one from trying of course :rolleyes:
Lies, damned lies, statistics and alternative facts
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Jun 15, 2012
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sandav wrote:
Aug 23rd, 2017 12:09 pm
and mature...
Mature people don't go through someone's post history and flagrantly downvote in a vendetta state.
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Jan 15, 2013
1432 posts
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Ottawa
AncasterRFD wrote:
Aug 23rd, 2017 12:24 pm
Mature people don't go through someone's post history and flagrantly downvote in a vendetta state.
In theory, but we'll never know will we.
"Doing my part to encourage civil discourse by not downvoting."
Penalty Box
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Feb 9, 2009
686 posts
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AncasterRFD wrote:
Aug 23rd, 2017 12:24 pm
Mature people don't go through someone's post history and flagrantly downvote in a vendetta state.
That's something I didn't see in topics I'm interested in. Usually downvoting is limited to recent page posts. But may be you're right if that's the case. I don't mind if downvoters identities are visible in one's Profile, and the reason given for each downvote - may be even better in Best Deals topics to explain your position. It sounds like a better solution than removing this feature across the entire forum.
Moderator
Sep 27, 2003
8162 posts
1549 upvotes
Newmarket
As the admins have made a decision regarding the removal of the downvote feature, this thread has now run its course. @TomRFD will bump this thread (and perhaps re-open it for discussion) once more information is available as to how & when it will happen and if existing downvotes will be removed or not as a part of the upcoming change.

Thank you everyone for all of your contributions to this thread.
RFD Forums Moderator
Corporate Account Manager for a Bell Mobility Reseller

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