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Deal Fanatic
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Jun 15, 2012
8760 posts
3162 upvotes
Southern Ontario
+1 Despite my wording, I've actually weighed it in favor of the general viewer's psyche and to keep the forum clean, not towards the end of any sensitivity spectrum, because 1. Best to ignore downvotes and trolling if you're the OP, others will respond to its merit or not, 2. If you don't post it, someone else will. Maybe in RFD's infancy it would be a bad idea but there are plenty of thread starters out there now.
Deal Guru
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Feb 8, 2014
12426 posts
2709 upvotes
Faith24 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 1:02 pm
I understand your argument in favour of downvoting. But you're considering it primarily from your point of view rather than the effect on the poster. If you end up discouraging posters, then you'll end up with a really efficient small pool of people still willing to post, which presumably is not what you were aiming for. People have feelings, and downvoting creates negative feelings.

Can't you just skip over the deals with no upvotes and few follow-ups if you're only interested in the hottest deals?

If someone has something useful to say about a deal, they should post it openly and not hide behind an anonymous downvote that conveys no useful information.

Example: the current Hot Deals thread about a BMO offering of a cheap bank account for new customers has a big negative score. What does that mean? I have an account at BMO, so of course I'm going to click on the thread to find out what it's about, regardless of the vote. Do I know or care if people are downvoting because the deal is bad, or people don't like BMO, or it's only for new customers? The vote doesn't convey that information. I need to read the posts to find out.
I agree, its like taking a hammer to a thumb tack while your finger is on it. I just can't get over the logic behind protecting trolls, if you moderate to prevent chaos why create and defend a system designed to troll people?
Lies, damned lies, statistics and alternative facts
Deal Fanatic
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Jun 15, 2012
8760 posts
3162 upvotes
Southern Ontario
Perhaps a good medium in Hot Deals is a reply to support your downvote is required.
Deal Guru
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Feb 8, 2014
12426 posts
2709 upvotes
AncasterRFD wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 3:06 pm
Perhaps a good medium in Hot Deals is a reply to support your downvote is required.
For example 25 people explaining their down vote is because its for new customers and they are existing customers gets tedious quickly and still obscures a good deal if you using downvotes as an indicator of good deals.
Not only that but down votes are for any post, not just original posts, except for the sections upvotes are not allowed (off topic etc)
Lies, damned lies, statistics and alternative facts
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 15, 2012
8760 posts
3162 upvotes
Southern Ontario
Quentin5 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 3:11 pm
For example 25 people explaining their down vote is because its for new customers and they are existing customers gets tedious quickly and still obscures a good deal if you using downvotes as an indicator of good deals.
Not only that but down votes are for any post, not just original posts, except for the sections upvotes are not allowed (off topic etc)
That's unlikely. The first person to do that if it's logical will be upvoted, saying the same thing is redundant and won't receive any praise like the first reply so there's no point. It also reduces the number of downvotes based on the same reason.
Deal Guru
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Feb 8, 2014
12426 posts
2709 upvotes
AncasterRFD wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 3:27 pm
That's unlikely. The first person to do that if it's logical will be upvoted, saying the same thing is redundant and won't receive any praise like the first reply so there's no point. It also reduces the number of downvotes based on the same reason.
You hope
Lies, damned lies, statistics and alternative facts
Deal Addict
Nov 12, 2006
1196 posts
304 upvotes
London
AncasterRFD wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 12:13 pm
It encourages people to be careful how they post ...
Bingo.
Faith24 wrote:
Mar 12th, 2017 1:02 pm
I understand your argument in favour of downvoting. But you're considering it primarily from your point of view rather than the effect on the poster. If you end up discouraging posters, then you'll end up with a really efficient small pool of people still willing to post, which presumably is not what you were aiming for. People have feelings, and downvoting creates negative feelings.
Ancaster should be looking at it from their point of view.
That is the whole point - the value to readers.
The effect on and "feelings" of the poster are irrelevant.

The up/down vote should be based objectively on the substance of the post.
It is a method of positive and negative feedback to encourage posts of value and discourage posts of little value.
If the value of the post is poor, and the poster gets a downvote and is therefore discouraged to do more of the same then the voting has done it's job.
As soon as a voting system which should reflect the content of a post takes feelings into consideration, it has lost all usefulness.
Deal Addict
Feb 29, 2012
1368 posts
614 upvotes
Richmond
arisk wrote:
Mar 13th, 2017 9:20 am
It is a method of positive and negative feedback to encourage posts of value and discourage posts of little value.
If the value of the post is poor, and the poster gets a downvote and is therefore discouraged to do more of the same then the voting has done it's job.
I disagree.

RFD already had the carrot (thumbs up). Why does RFD need a stick? (down votes)

People still get down votes when their post is not "poor". As pointed out frequently in these threads about voting, people have many reasons for down-voting, including those who are just opinionated jerks.

We want to attract new participants to RFD, and we want them to post Hot Deals. It's pretty intimidating trying to do that for the first time in a hostile environment where a certain portion of the community stands ready to flame and down-vote for the slightest perceived imperfection. And if that's the reaction, that first-time poster will likely be discouraged and go away, never learning to do better. The people who post helpful feedback and positive encouragement are unfortunately outweighed by those who feel they have to be brutal.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 20, 2003
9908 posts
327 upvotes
I'm not a fan of this, you have people posting every single deal they can find, no matter how crappy. I was checking hot deals and this new account form today (movintou or something) has 13 posts about random Amazon 'hot deals' . It's like he/she is scouring Amazon for any semblance of a deal to post and get an upvote.

So in a case like that I click and downvote because the way I see it, if you're fishing for votes and spamming, you might as well get downvoted in the process.
KitKat item collector- always looking for swag or branded items.
Deal Addict
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Aug 22, 2006
1180 posts
117 upvotes
Faith24 wrote:
Mar 13th, 2017 11:02 am
I disagree.

RFD already had the carrot (thumbs up). Why does RFD need a stick? (down votes)

People still get down votes when their post is not "poor". As pointed out frequently in these threads about voting, people have many reasons for down-voting, including those who are just opinionated jerks.

We want to attract new participants to RFD, and we want them to post Hot Deals. It's pretty intimidating trying to do that for the first time in a hostile environment where a certain portion of the community stands ready to flame and down-vote for the slightest perceived imperfection. And if that's the reaction, that first-time poster will likely be discouraged and go away, never learning to do better. The people who post helpful feedback and positive encouragement are unfortunately outweighed by those who feel they have to be brutal.
I agree with much of what you're saying.

I understand the reasons behind having downvotes, but there are a number of threads with an unexplainable number of downvotes for posts that are actually good deals. It seems as though there is a population that likes to downvote deals for whatever reason.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 20, 2003
9908 posts
327 upvotes
Another example of why this system doesn't work, this is another new user who registered yesterday:
psn-psn-weekly-sale-2087259/#p27573168

The post states there is a PSN sale on Batman games, no list of games, no link to sale, no nothing.

If I didn't know better, I would say these (this one and the one I mentioned 2 posts above) are spam bots, but I don't see what they gain by posting these threads!
KitKat item collector- always looking for swag or branded items.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 15, 2012
8760 posts
3162 upvotes
Southern Ontario
I just perused the first few pages of HotDeals, the ones in the negative had community support and typically weren't deals or were poorly posted like above.

Follow-up replies in those threads had useful information.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jul 29, 2014
979 posts
642 upvotes
A fatal flaw in the logic of the people in support of the downvote system is that they assume that posters will continue to post deals and improve on the quality of the posts.

The reality is that people will simply stop posting.

I don't intend to start any hot deals threads until the downvote system is dropped.
GRAMMAR: The difference between "Feeling you're nuts." and "Feeling your nuts."

and "Help your uncle Jack, off that horse."

Dump the downvote system: upvotes-downvotes-2070965/#p27573558
Deal Addict
Feb 29, 2012
1368 posts
614 upvotes
Richmond
Ok, here's an alternative:

How about an "Opt out completely from down-votes" option for all RFD members? Not just hide or ignore down-votes in a few areas, but ignore them completely: don't want to see down-votes, don't want them counted in thread vote totals, don't want to know about them, don't want to give them. Make it like they don't exist.

Let's see what percentage of RFD members prefer that option.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 15, 2012
8760 posts
3162 upvotes
Southern Ontario
Some will improve, some won't and will drop off the radar. The popularity of this board means if one of us doesn't start a deal, someone else will, especially deals that originate from email subs or web browsing. Deals, from subs or obscure, all start somewhere and we're all online, we're all out there looking. While it's sad to see a contributor leave, it's a drop in a bucket, no offence, just statistically speaking.
I don't understand the resistance to cleaner posting, it's part of selfless concern. True altruism does not care about up or downvotes.
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