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Locked: User banning and thread locking

  • Last Updated:
  • Mar 7th, 2018 12:33 pm
Banned
Jan 3, 2018
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peanutz wrote:
Mar 1st, 2018 6:14 pm
Another example of subjective judgments leading to inconsistent moderation:
A discussion escalated into bickering with daivey in a thread where he admitted to never selling a thing on Kijiji but was telling other Kijiji sellers how they should do it (or how he would imagine doing it.)

daivey is in the Penalty Box, which supposedly means his posts had to be approved by a mod. Therefore, apparently a mod was approving his bickering posts with me.

I tried to ignore it when it became clear that he was exaggerating my position/POV into more extreme and ridiculous scenarios, but he multi-posted and only after I responded pointing out his double standards, were both of our posts moderated/removed.

So why is that? Why was some mod approving bickering posts?

There are users calling for decreased use of subjectivity. Not only is it possible that mods are out of step with the userbase (I'm not sure about that, maybe, maybe not), but it's clear that mods are not even in step with each other.

(I am not singling out any moderator as I feel that this is a system/policy issue.)
Disagreement does not automatically equal "bickering post" or if that were the case, no-one's threads on Off-topic would be approved.

J/
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Jakinthe wrote:
Mar 3rd, 2018 2:24 pm
Disagreement does not automatically equal "bickering post" or if that were the case, no-one's threads on Off-topic would be approved.

J/
It was described as bickering by the mod that removed both my and other poster's posts. I just happen to agree.
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Sep 27, 2003
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peanutz wrote:
Mar 3rd, 2018 1:26 pm
Improve consistency & reduce subjectivity
Too many variables, not likely to happen. Subjectivity is required to moderate this site. We are not the police issuing tickets per the law. We use the rules to guide us, but often it is still a judgement call, something that is taken into account when the admins choose moderators.
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WorldIRC wrote:
Mar 3rd, 2018 8:08 pm
Too many variables, not likely to happen. Subjectivity is required to moderate this site. We are not the police issuing tickets per the law. We use the rules to guide us, but often it is still a judgement call, something that is taken into account when the admins choose moderators.
To add:

When selecting mods, the admins are not looking for those that would "police" the site per se. They typically look for people that have been positive contributors to the site; those with sound judgement to be able to make the proper judgement call, when needed, based on what they feel is best for the community. This is why we will never be able to remove subjectivity or guarantee complete consistency from our moderation team. Everyone has their own take on what is best, even among our community, which is why we encourage threads such as this. Some will agree some won't, but I'd say overall, the mods do a good job on filtering out what needs do be filtered out.
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May 10, 2005
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WorldIRC wrote:
Mar 3rd, 2018 8:08 pm
Too many variables, not likely to happen. Subjectivity is required to moderate this site. We are not the police issuing tickets per the law. We use the rules to guide us, but often it is still a judgement call, something that is taken into account when the admins choose moderators.
You may not claim to be police but yet they are and you enforce as if they are.
Very often the reason for editing, closing or deleting a thread or post is one word...bickering, rude or no reason and "Please read the RFD rules and if this doesn't answer your questions, please contact an administrator for assistance.", never of course explaining which "rule" has been broken. When questioned, the response (from one particular mod) is always "please contact an administrator for assistance " or "Anyway you know the drill, take it up with Tom".
WorldIRC wrote:
Mar 4th, 2018 7:32 am

To add:

When selecting mods, the admins are not looking for those that would "police" the site per se. They typically look for people that have been positive contributors to the site; those with sound judgement to be able to make the proper judgement call, when needed, based on what they feel is best for the community. This is why we will never be able to remove subjectivity or guarantee complete consistency from our moderation team. Everyone has their own take on what is best, even among our community, which is why we encourage threads such as this. Some will agree some won't, but I'd say overall, the mods do a good job on filtering out what needs do be filtered out.
I fully understand the difficulty of moderation but consistency is extremely important.
Yes, moderators often spend more time in one forum than another so posters must become aware of that particular forums moderators and what they will accept. What can be said in one forum is not necessarily acceptable in another due to a particular moderators stance or opinion or moderation of that forum.
I think some moderators have been around a very long time and take some ownership to certain forums and those forums become the way of the moderators as opposed to the way of the posters. Maybe there should be a limit to the amount of time a moderator can be in that position?
Life is short......Make sure you spend as much time as possible on the internet arguing with strangers about politics :). Anonymous
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Jan 3, 2018
321 posts
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I don't feel this about WorldIRC or Shaner or Mars etc. but agree with Pete:

You may not claim to be police but yet they are and you enforce as if they are.
Very often the reason for editing, closing or deleting a thread or post is one word...bickering, rude or no reason and "Please read the RFD rules and if this doesn't answer your questions, please contact an administrator for assistance.", never of course explaining which "rule" has been broken. When questioned, the response (from one particular mod) is always "please contact an administrator for assistance " or "Anyway you know the drill, take it up with Tom".


I know we're Canadian but it's OK sometimes to disagree or even "bicker" in my opinion.

Too much sanitization is unhealthy in my opinion. And some mods do this much more than others IMO. I know it's a thankless task in some respects, but I feel that listening to users is an important part of the process (and thanks for not just locking down this thread immediately).

J/
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Jakinthe wrote:
Mar 4th, 2018 6:03 pm
but I feel that listening to users is an important part of the process (and thanks for not just locking down this thread immediately).
We truly want to make sure that the RFD experience is positive for everyone while making sure we address our administrative requirements at the same time. We have no reason to lock down a productive thread like this. If the admins have a way to help address consistency, we're all ears.
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Banned
Jan 3, 2018
321 posts
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WorldIRC wrote:
Mar 4th, 2018 6:40 pm
We truly want to make sure that the RFD experience is positive for everyone while making sure we address our administrative requirements at the same time. We have no reason to lock down a productive thread like this. If the admins have a way to help address consistency, we're all ears.
Thank you WorldIRC - really appreciate your approach and ethos.

And this is what I mean by different moderators too

J/
Deal Addict
May 17, 2005
4745 posts
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and another thread locked
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/uoit-cam ... 2175643/6/
Entire thread is flamebait.
well ... maybe it is , but 6 pages in less then 2 days ... maybe that is what the "community" likes to do ?
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lubmar wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 1:49 pm
and another thread locked
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/uoit-cam ... 2175643/6/



well ... maybe it is , but 6 pages in less then 2 days ... maybe that is what the "community" likes to do ?
Yeah, exactly. And I was surprised that it took took the mods from Saturday till Monday to notice a thread that was supposedly ENTIRELY flamebait.

Use of the word "flamebait" is problematic.

This definition is the first thing that came up.
http://searchmicroservices.techtarget.c ... /flamebait

Or the top definition at Urban Dictionary.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. ... ame%20bait

Maybe I hold an overly narrow definition, but I don't see any flamebait in the entire thread. Referring to the entire thread as flamebait is an accusation against the OP that his intent was to stir up flaming. I posted in it a few times, and I know my intent in my posts wasn't to elicit people to flame me. While the thread did eventually fall into bickering, the bulk of it was productive and reasonably polite. And the bickering was only peripherally related to the actual topic. Bickering, and even outright insults, aren't automatically flamebait.
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lubmar wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 1:49 pm
and another thread locked
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/uoit-cam ... 2175643/6/


well ... maybe it is , but 6 pages in less then 2 days ... maybe that is what the "community" likes to do ?
Moderators aren't paid, it's volunteer work. We help out when we can. That thread wasn't even reported. I stumbled upon it.

@lubmar you're not even disputing the fact that the thread is basically bait for trolls.

The topic in itself could have been discussed from an objective perspective discussing the social issues resulting in such trends pointed out in OP. Instead, was a troll race about racial hierarchy (and nothing good said about it). Not pointing fingers, but there are a handful of users who flock to these threads.

Basically, either I selectively delete nine out of ten posts on that thread (and repeat every 12 hours), and entertain a bunch of PM's about "why did you delete my post?" or I lock the thread and life goes on.
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titaniumtux wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 2:55 pm
Basically, either I selectively delete nine out of ten posts on that thread (and repeat every 12 hours), and entertain a bunch of PM's about "why did you delete my post?" or I lock the thread and life goes on.
This exactly.
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It's 6 pages long, two days old, entirely flamebait, and 9 out of every 10 posts need to be deleted - yet it's gone completely unreported.

Clearly there's a gap between what level of moderation is occurring and what level of moderation the user base is seeking.
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May 17, 2005
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titaniumtux wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 2:55 pm
Moderators aren't paid, it's volunteer work. We help out when we can. That thread wasn't even reported. I stumbled upon it.

@lubmar you're not even disputing the fact that the thread is basically bait for trolls.

The topic in itself could have been discussed from an objective perspective discussing the social issues resulting in such trends pointed out in OP. Instead, was a troll race about racial hierarchy (and nothing good said about it). Not pointing fingers, but there are a handful of users who flock to these threads.

Basically, either I selectively delete nine out of ten posts on that thread (and repeat every 12 hours), and entertain a bunch of PM's about "why did you delete my post?" or I lock the thread and life goes on.
titaniumtux did you deleted any "despicable nastiness" before I noticed ? because the thread as it is looks good to me (IMHO) ...
BTW I like the "bait for trolls threads" they are very entertaining (as long as no "despicable nastiness" in them) so yes I flock to some of them (you can point your finger at me Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes) ...
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lubmar wrote:
Mar 5th, 2018 3:10 pm
titaniumtux did you deleted any "despicable nastiness" before I noticed ? because the thread as it is looks good to me (IMHO) ...
BTW I like the "bait for trolls threads" they are very entertaining (as long as no "despicable nastiness" in them) so yes I flock to some of them (you can point your finger at me Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes) ...
As was mentioned earlier in this thread, we do like to use the forum rules as a guideline for moderation.

In this case, trolling / flamebait is against the rules. Even if no one reported it, my actioning it was still justified in accordance with our rules.

I don't think we are interested in being a website full of "bait for troll threads". I'm sure there are other sites out there that can offer this to you if that's what you're looking for.

From forum rules:
Do not post with the purpose of enticing fights (trolling)
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