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Is UTM inferior to St. george UofT?.. and transfer question

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[OP]
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Oct 25, 2008
16 posts
toronto

Is UTM inferior to St. george UofT?.. and transfer question

Im in UTM's 1st yr management.
So far i had 1 term test on each subject and i got A's in all of them, my gpa is 4.0.

I was planning to transfer into St. george campus next year, but I heard that after the commerce program at downtown changed to Rotman Commerce, it's not accepting commerce trasnfer applicant. so i was wondering if..


1. Is it possible to transfer into Rotman Commerce from UTM management?
I'm confused because every office I ask gives different answer.
On the admission website, it says "those who are not in Commerce category can transfer" In that case, is managment at UTM considered Commerce category?? I hope not....

2. If I manage to finish 1st yr with 4.0 gpa, would Rotman Commerce accept my transfer application? (even tho they say i will hav to start from 1st yr again, i will. I'm so willing to study at downtown campus)

3. in case transfering from UTM management to Rotman Commerce is never possible,
do you recruiters tend to think UTM is inferior to st. george and hire more students for better/higher paid jobs from Rotman Commerce?

well personally... Even though Im getting straight perfect A's at UTM, I looked at St. George commerce's matieral from my friend, and i found that they cover similar stuffs, but it's a bit difficult and professional at downtown campus.
65 replies
Deal Addict
Feb 20, 2008
2388 posts
349 upvotes
Just call them and ask. You'll get the right answer.
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Sep 10, 2005
417 posts
They probably won't accept transfers so don't get your hopes up- Also the grading distribution on FINAL marks are the exact same across all UofT campuses (e.g. only 25% getting above 80) and certain grading distributions first year (i.e. class averages of 63-69)- So the difference is minimal between campuses- I have a friend who transferred from Rotman Commerce (was accepted after his first year) but chose to transfer to UTM Commerce, and it seems to him that the difficulty level is very similar.

As a 2nd year student at UTM, who had a relatively good first year, I can't help but feel you're getting a bit ahead of yourself- I'd say wait until your final marks of your half year courses are finished (MGM101 etc.) and see where you stand. Your mark may drop quite a bit of exams (1%-10%)- Once again, you are not a straight perfect 4.0 student yet until you finish the ENTIRE first year. I'd project maybe 2-3 ppl out of 400+ trying to get into Commerce/Management would have a perfect 4.0 GPA's - I only know of one person 2nd year, and one person in 3rd year with perfect 4.0's in Commerce-

Since it is pretty unlikely St. George/Rotman Commerce will accept transfers this year, I would definitely pick up both MAT133Y5 and MGT120H5 so you have the option of either Management (BBA) or Commerce (BComm) at UTM next year- if your grades are good as you say they are, you would get the same opportunities as any Rotman Commerce student-
Deal Addict
Oct 10, 2008
3153 posts
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For transferring...yeah don't assume you have a 4.0 after mid-terms lol. Chances are, you have a few courses that are full-year, so it's quite volatile.
Secondly, even then...I don't see them accepting you...because, well look.
You're at UTM management, you had a sub-80 average plus lack-lustre EC's, hence the reason you didn't make Commerce at UTM.
So, I'd say it's quite the stretch. Aim for UTM Commerce, it's more likely to materialize and it makes sense.

Secondly, in terms of inferiority...St. George definitely trumps UTM, no questions asked. Don't listen to the people who are at UTM, because they're just trying to rationalize that it's not, so they don't feel bad.
Jr. Member
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Aug 18, 2008
180 posts
TORONTO
hey there. if you're getting a 4.0 gpa and if you can't transfer down to utsg, why don't you:
a) stay in management and apply for the bba management at utm
b) transfer to utm commerce
or
c) transfer to utsc management bba?
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Oct 10, 2008
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ECSTATIC wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 8:53 pm
hey there. if you're getting a 4.0 gpa and if you can't transfer down to utsg, why don't you:
a) stay in management and apply for the bba management at utm
b) transfer to utm commerce
or
c) transfer to utsc management bba?
a) I thought anyone in Management got the BBA, not BA, since they changed it last year.
b) Yes...and if he really is a 4.0 superstar...then he'll destroy Commerce..and I don't know, do whatever top of the class Commerce students do at UTM.
c) If he lives in Mississauga, going to Scarborough (commute) is hell.
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Aug 18, 2008
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Jay Hova wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 8:56 pm
a) I thought anyone in Management got the BBA, not BA, since they changed it last year.
b) Yes...and if he really is a 4.0 superstar...then he'll destroy Commerce..and I don't know, do whatever top of the class Commerce students do at UTM.
c) If he lives in Mississauga, going to Scarborough (commute) is hell.
hi there. for a-> they "apply" for the bba management at the end of their first year/beg of second year (one of those). utm's bba management apparently only acccepts 50-60 people after the student's first year of university.
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Sep 10, 2005
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Jay Hova wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 8:52 pm
For transferring...yeah don't assume you have a 4.0 after mid-terms lol. Chances are, you have a few courses that are full-year, so it's quite volatile.
Secondly, even then...I don't see them accepting you...because, well look.
You're at UTM management, you had a sub-80 average plus lack-lustre EC's, hence the reason you didn't make Commerce at UTM.
So, I'd say it's quite the stretch. Aim for UTM Commerce, it's more likely to materialize and it makes sense.

Secondly, in terms of inferiority...St. George definitely trumps UTM, no questions asked. Don't listen to the people who are at UTM, because they're just trying to rationalize that it's not, so they don't feel bad.
So St. George trumps UTM in terms of inferiority, no questions asked? :lol: The OP appears to be an exceptional student, which would lead me to believe that he would be as successful regardless of program (UTM Commerce vs. Rotman Commerce)
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Oct 10, 2008
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baller89 wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 9:37 pm
So St. George trumps UTM in terms of inferiority, no questions asked? :lol: The OP appears to be an exceptional student, which would lead me to believe that he would be as successful regardless of program (UTM Commerce vs. Rotman Commerce)
Yeah, I probably should have been a bit more careful in my typing.

Consider this analogy.

A giant among midgets, is a midget among giants.

Sure, the OP is at the top of the class in Management (midgets, because the bottom-feeder kids go there...come on, no need to prove that to you). However, he's just maybe the top 25th %-ile, or maybe just an average student in UTM Commerce...what makes Rotman Commerce enticed to pick some average middle-of-the-pack student out of UTM Commerce...nothing.
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Sep 10, 2005
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Jay Hova wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 9:51 pm
Yeah, I probably should have been a bit more careful in my typing.

Consider this analogy.

A giant among midgets, is a midget among giants.

Sure, the OP is at the top of the class in Management (midgets, because the bottom-feeder kids go there...come on, no need to prove that to you). However, he's just maybe the top 25th %-ile, or maybe just an average student in UTM Commerce...what makes Rotman Commerce enticed to pick some average middle-of-the-pack student out of UTM Commerce...nothing.
Hah, I like the analogy since I've never really heard it before- But to be fair, your first year at UTSC/UTSG/UTM is general, i.e. you take the same courses as the other business students- Also, the management cut-off has apparently gone up quite a bit to 80+, but I dont think its that different- I think it would be easier to evaluate if the OP listed his courses, if he is taking all the Commerce courses (i.e. MAT133 which is calculus) than his marks are quite impressive- we need more info from OP, who has yet to comment lol
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Jan 11, 2008
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I graduated from UTM (although not in the same program as you). I took most of my courses at UTM but each summer took a few courses at St. George (and a couple during the regular year). Personally, I saw no difference between the two campuses other than the size and that St. George offers more courses.

I've got a U of T degree and no employer has ever asked which campus I graduated from. For me, UTM was the campus closest to home and if I was to go again, I'd make the same choice without question due to convenience.
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Apr 18, 2007
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sillysimms wrote:
Oct 27th, 2008 2:19 am
I graduated from UTM (although not in the same program as you). I took most of my courses at UTM but each summer took a few courses at St. George (and a couple during the regular year). Personally, I saw no difference between the two campuses other than the size and that St. George offers more courses.

I've got a U of T degree and no employer has ever asked which campus I graduated from. For me, UTM was the campus closest to home and if I was to go again, I'd make the same choice without question due to convenience.
+1

I went to both campuses, noticed no difference as well. There are prof from st.george teaching at UTM. I got accepted into st.george and refused to go because UTM is closer to me.
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Aug 24, 2008
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If UTM had an engineering program, I would've gone there.
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[OP]
Newbie
Oct 25, 2008
16 posts
toronto
baller89 wrote:
Oct 26th, 2008 10:05 pm
Hah, I like the analogy since I've never really heard it before- But to be fair, your first year at UTSC/UTSG/UTM is general, i.e. you take the same courses as the other business students- Also, the management cut-off has apparently gone up quite a bit to 80+, but I dont think its that different- I think it would be easier to evaluate if the OP listed his courses, if he is taking all the Commerce courses (i.e. MAT133 which is calculus) than his marks are quite impressive- we need more info from OP, who has yet to comment lol
Hi. so currently, im enrolled in
ECO100 (bailey)
MAT133
MGM101 MGM102(term 2)
PSY100
MGT120(term2) im taking 4.5 credits this yr.

so far i had 1st mid terms at each subjects and i got

eco100-98%
mat133-87%
mgm101-95%
psy100-90%

yea i know tht generally 1st tests are easier than 2nd and 3rd ones but I think the chances are ill still maintain my marks 85+ because i was rlly shocked after i got reject by UTSG and now im really determined and im even planning to read 1st 2 chapters for each subjects during this winter break so i can still aces every subject.

oh and Jay Hova said above that the reason why i ended up in UTM management was because my highschool average was 80~85 and lacking EC.

but that is not ture.
I'm from a highschool in vancouver, bc, and my school was ranked #1 in tht province, with reputation for giving out hardest marks in bc, and always being the #1 school for its students' average marks on provincial examination.

and my mark there was 92%(top 5 courses including english)
with over 400 EC hours. basicaly i had alot of volunteering, club activities, and had some hours for guitar, piano, soccer and snowboarding.
I was the 4th best(avg mark) in my school among students who applied to UofT.

so basically this was the kind of mark i could have high possibilties of getting into any best commerce program in canada including ubc sauder's, york schulich's, UofT rotman, queens, mcgil, etc. (i applied to only ubc and UofT tho)

At first trinity college just told me to wait, and they said they're pretty sure im almost guranteed in UTSG commerce. basically trinity said even tho they reject me, my alternative choice colleges, such as new or innis, will still accept me.

and very weirdly, trin kept me in the waitlist till middle of the summer, and finally rejected me, but by that time the program was full.
i dunno if ouac or UofT made a mistake on my application, cuz even my friend with 86 avg with 50 EC hour got into UTSG commerce with no problem.
so i worte a appealing letter, but it was too late.

well ive been in canada for about 5 yrs and the reason why i came in canada was to get a degree at UofT, so i chose ubc commerce over utm management.(since then they said transfering is possible and they told me only gpa mattered. so i thought i would get 4.0gpa here and could transfer into UTSG).

b4 coming to utm, i did some research and found prof cohen is easier than prof bailey, but then i still chose bailey because i just didnt want to slack off and fall behind UTSG friends.

and somedays ago i talked with my best friend at UTSG, and compared matierals, and i found matierals are mostly simialr(such as fiscal, monetary policy for mgm(com) and interesting rate, matrix for mat), but UTSG go a bit further than UTM and it looked a bit more proffesional at UTSG.

i know there are only a bit difference btw UTSG/UTM/UTSC for 1st yr,
but i know core courses at 3rd 4th yr will hav even more gap in terms of quality/difficulty.

yea so basically im not so frustrated about 1st yr, profs for eco(bailey), mgm, psy, they are really charismatic and course matierals are enjoying too.
and i know whichever campus i go to, i will still end up with the same diploma.

my main concern is tht the gap in terms of quality/difficulty btw utm and utsg will get bigger and bigger as i move onto higher years, and i just want to get as much as education/opportunity as UTSGers do at downtown.
Newbie
Sep 18, 2008
69 posts
jp900914 wrote:
Oct 27th, 2008 9:53 pm

my main concern is tht the gap in terms of quality/difficulty btw utm and utsg will get bigger and bigger as i move onto higher years, and i just want to get as much as education/opportunity as UTSGers do at downtown.
Hey bud,

I dont know who mis informed you, but there is no 'gap' in third and fourth year courses, especially for commerce between utm and UTSG.

for example, MGT337 in utsg is MGT 338/MGT339 at UTM, and my old prof (Florence at utm) would meet up with the UTSG prof to discuss quiz questions as downtown and utm class would be doing the EXACT same material.

there are tons of examples of this for commerce courses thats happened (top of my head, MGT393, MGT330, MGT262).

now yeah since downtown branded themselves this yr, they offer more finance related courses than UTM... But even then, the main finance courses of futures and options, international finance, and advance topics in corporate finance are still in UTM, with additional courses such as mergers and acquisitions (which looks incredible, and was JUST introduced after i graduated), and financial analysis have been added....

so really dont worry that your in utm commerce as oppose to UTSG commerce as there is heavy recruitment at utm as there is utsg.

for finance related, anyone that signed up to GSES can tell you that if you look at tha finance related jobs, they are insane....

you see ibanking analyst, consultants, equity research, etc etc. these job postings are for all three campuses

so if you are the top of your program, you should have no problem getting AT least interviews for these jobs...the rest is up to you


hope this helps you out
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