Real Estate

Vancouver housing bubble?

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Deal Addict
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Dec 10, 2008
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Toronto
Mark77 wrote: Impossible. Any sale, by definition, even if it is an 'estate sale', is at 'market value'. The pictures you pasted in the thread represent some pretty good evidence that it should have sold at a hefty discount to more modern/well-maintained houses as it obviously needed a substantial amount of rehabilitation.



So? Just because something isn't on the MLS doesn't mean that its not part of the overall 'market'. Unless you committed some sort of breach of trust by selling the house to yourself as a fiduciary or advisor of the estate, you cannot really say that it was "below market", or any nonsense like that.

So which is it? Are you crooked, or are you fibbing about acquiring the place at 'below market'??



Seems pretty rich coming from you...
So if I sell you a 2013 BMW M3 for $1000 in mint condition, that's not below market value?

Come on Pitz, I expected better.
Let's hug it out
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Feb 15, 2008
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RCGA wrote: So if I sell you a 2013 BMW M3 for $1000 in mint condition, that's not below market value?
That would be the market value then. Market value is simply the price that two sane arms-length entities have transacted in a particular asset class in the market at.

So either you'd be insane, not arms-length, or such a transaction should be properly considered as a market based transaction in a "BMW M3".
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
Deal Addict
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Dec 10, 2008
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Mark77 wrote: That would be the market value then. Market value is simply the price that two sane arms-length entities have transacted in a particular asset class in the market at.

So either you'd be insane, not arms-length, or such a transaction should be properly considered as a market based transaction in a "BMW M3".
Really? First line in the Wiki definition:
Market value is the price at which an asset would trade in a competitive auction setting
Therefore, in a competitive auction setting, my home, if sold on the open market (i.e MLS with a REA), would have sold for more than I purchased it for.

Again, I expected better.
Let's hug it out
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Feb 15, 2008
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RCGA wrote: Therefore, in a competitive auction setting, my home, if sold on the open market (i.e MLS with a REA), would have sold for more than I purchased it for.
So you used your professional position to take advantage of a grieving family? Is that what you're admitting to?

And besides, what gives you the right to say that a transaction was not conducted at 'market value'? The MLS is not the entire 'marketplace' for Canadian Real Estate. It is merely an advertising service operated by a portion of Canada's used house industry.

After all, by definition, you must have been able to observe what 'market value' for the house was, to make the claim that you acquired it 'below market value'.

Methinks you're talking nonsense with your claim that you acquired the house at "below market value". Unless you were somehow on both sides of the transaction.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
Deal Addict
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Dec 10, 2008
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Mark77 wrote: So you used your professional position to take advantage of a grieving family? Is that what you're admitting to?

And besides, what gives you the right to say that a transaction was not conducted at 'market value'?

After all, by definition, you must have been able to observe what 'market value' for the house was, to make the claim that you acquired it 'below market value'.

Methinks you're talking nonsense with your claim that you acquired the house at "below market value". Unless you were somehow on both sides of the transaction.
Mark, I know this is tough to understand, but outside of the internet forums, in the real world, not everyone cares about squeezing every last basis point yield out of every transaction. You have no idea what the estate's situation was for the sale, the conditions of sale, my relationship with the family, etc.
Let's hug it out
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Feb 15, 2008
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RCGA wrote: Mark, I know this is tough to understand, but outside of the internet forums, in the real world, not everyone cares about squeezing every last basis point yield out of every transaction. You have no idea what the estate's situation was for the sale, the conditions of sale, my relationship with the family, etc.
I was correcting your delusion that you acquired the place at something 'below market value'. The transaction, unless it involved undue influence or other unprofessional dealings, was completed at market value.

You're not entitled to just throw out an observation of 'market value' (ie: a transaction) merely because you think its lower than others have sold for at some point in the past. Or because it came from an estate or a foreclosure. Estate sales, foreclosures, and sales in distress have always been features of the 'market' in real estate.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
Deal Addict
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Dec 10, 2008
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I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
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Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
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Thornhill
Mark77 wrote: You're not entitled to just throw out an observation of 'market value' (ie: a transaction) merely because you think its lower than others have sold for at some point in the past. Or because it came from an estate or a foreclosure. Estate sales, foreclosures, and sales in distress have always been features of the 'market' in real estate.
Neither are you.

In real estate, the amount RCGA paid is called market price because it is now a historical fact. Even if he only paid $1, it still is deemed market price and not market value which is an estimate/opinion of the highest price that could be achieved on an open market after being marketed to the most amount of people and for a reasonable amount of time.

It is most definitely possible that RCGA acquired the property for below market value since first of all it was not placed on the open market and secondly properties do sometimes sell below market value for a number of reasons including seller desperation and errors in valuation. Selling for below market value particularly arises in estate sales because the beneficiaries of the estate would rather limit the amount of time they have to pay to carry the property.
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Dec 12, 2005
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Greater Toronto Area
bwield wrote: I will be buying our first home in 6-8 months. A 20% correction would be awesome! :cheesygri

in your dreams...any house in a good location won't go down %1.0..condos are showing a bit of weakness in Toronto but homes downtown forget it prices are firm or still moving up.
Member
Nov 22, 2009
433 posts
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Markham Ontario
gizmo8 wrote: in your dreams...any house in a good location won't go down %1.0..condos are showing a bit of weakness in Toronto but homes downtown forget it prices are firm or still moving up.
:cry:
Penalty Box
Apr 16, 2012
3565 posts
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Greely
lol mark77, why are you arguing technicalities?

Anytime someone is arguing technicalities, it means they are losing the argument.
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Feb 15, 2008
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techcrium wrote: lol mark77, why are you arguing technicalities?

Anytime someone is arguing technicalities, it means they are losing the argument.
Hardly. I was just challenging the view that there is such thing as a 'below market sale', except between non-arms-length entities. All sales between unrelated entities, by definition, are observations of 'the market'. Obviously "the market" will incorporate sales made for a variety of reasons and for a wide variety of desires for liquidity.

I only brought up the sheer absurdity of the previous posters' statements because we're in a rather slow time for news and other data.
TodayHello wrote: ...The Banks are smarter than you - they have floors full of people whose job it is to read Mark77 posts...
Deal Addict
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Dec 10, 2008
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Toronto
Below market sale, below market price, below market value....which one is it?

I keep stating below market value, and you're all over the map
Let's hug it out
Jr. Member
Oct 1, 2006
143 posts
18 upvotes
toronto
RCGA wrote: Below market sale, below market price, below market value....which one is it?

I keep stating below market value, and you're all over the map
I wouldn't worry about him, I think he is one of those guys who just likes to hear himself talk. Helps him pass the day.

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