Real Estate

Vancouver housing bubble?

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  • Aug 13th, 2018 7:37 pm
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Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2006
1671 posts
701 upvotes
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 12:58 am
Haha it is clear now how you debate. Empty homes = no supply problem. There is your dishonest leap. This kind of leap is the staple of leftist arguments. See "income inequality = oppression".

No. Nothing makes sense in this thread because according to this thread the bubble began on January 2002 Smiling Face With Open Mouth. This thread is filled with delusional people who are in denial because accepting the fact that they are wrong will crush their souls. Instead they double down by pointing to dubious sources and citing experts who have no formal training in economics while cementing their own fate of being renters for life Smiling Face With Open Mouth. Academics in the field of business and finance cannot be trusted because they lie to keep the bubble inflated Smiling Face With Open Mouth. Real estate agents and the media can bend market forces by being deceitful Smiling Face With Open Mouth. That makes sense Smiling Face With Open Mouth.
So instead of addressing that fact that 22% of the condos are empty in Coal Harbour (probably more) and you telling everyone we need more supply you go on some rant about when this thread opened attack the authors of articles etc. Exactly what I suspected from you.

A lot more nuggets ( links to articles) in this thread - I suggest you spend some time and reread it all.
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Motoss wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:29 am
So instead of addressing that fact that 22% of the condos are empty in Coal Harbour (probably more) and you telling everyone we need more supply you go on some rant about when this thread opened attack the authors of articles etc. Exactly what I suspected from you.

A lot more nuggets ( links to articles) in this thread - I suggest you spend some time and reread it all.
OK let me address it. I know some people like the Kwantlen lecturer and the Green Party are morally outraged that some luxury units are sitting empty. They may have misled you to approach this problem emotionally instead of rationally. This is a classic leftist strategy and I urge you not to fall for it. See the leftists favorite of being outraged at "obscene wealth". Do not be angry at "obscene wealth" or "empty units". Wealth is generated legally most of the time. Dwellings can be empty for very legitimate reasons, for example, some units are vacation homes, some owners are out of town for work, some are being purchased for children by concerned parents. If you dial back some of the moral outrage you will see that the existence of empty homes does not mean there is no supply issue. High prices despite all time high housing starts is a symptom of insufficient new supply to satisfy demand growth. Rezone, build, create jobs, build wealth. Vancouver is very fortunate to be in this position. Abundance of investment capital and cultural enrichment.

That article is one of the worse I've encountered on Vancouver real estate but it gets brought up here because people like the author's conclusions. It's like a homeopath giving advice for cancer treatment so it deserved to be ridiculed. Markets are not based on feelings. The reason we have built so many units is because prices keep rising and it is profitable. The author studied historic data and concluded that present and future demand has been met. That is really really stupid because if that is how you operate in markets you will go broke. In markets, profits are good, going broke is bad. The leftists' intentions are more sinister though. They are nudging people to be morally outraged at the outcomes of the free market. This makes it easier for them to usher in the utopia :twisted:. Canada is especially vulnerable today with our left leaning schools and politicians.
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2006
1671 posts
701 upvotes
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 6:13 pm
OK let me address it. I know some people like the Kwantlen lecturer and the Green Party are morally outraged that some luxury units are sitting empty. They may have misled you to approach this problem emotionally instead of rationally. This is a classic leftist strategy and I urge you not to fall for it. See the leftists favorite of being outraged at "obscene wealth". Do not be angry at "obscene wealth" or "empty units". Wealth is generated legally most of the time. Dwellings can be empty for very legitimate reasons, for example, some units are vacation homes, some owners are out of town for work, some are being purchased for children by concerned parents. If you dial back some of the moral outrage you will see that the existence of empty homes does not mean there is no supply issue. High prices despite all time high housing starts is a symptom of insufficient new supply to satisfy demand growth. Rezone, build, create jobs, build wealth. Vancouver is very fortunate to be in this position. Abundance of investment capital and cultural enrichment.

That article is one of the worse I've encountered on Vancouver real estate but it gets brought up here because people like the author's conclusions. It's like a homeopath giving advice for cancer treatment so it deserved to be ridiculed. Markets are not based on feelings. The reason we have built so many units is because prices keep rising and it is profitable. The author studied historic data and concluded that present and future demand has been met. That is really really stupid because if that is how you operate in markets you will go broke. In markets, profits are good, going broke is bad. The leftists' intentions are more sinister though. They are nudging people to be morally outraged at the outcomes of the free market. This makes it easier for them to usher in the utopia :twisted:. Canada is especially vulnerable today with our left leaning schools and politicians.
Yikes..

I appreciate you being so passionate about what you write as being correct, however unfortunately you are wrong.

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columni ... ew-zealand
Deal Addict
Feb 23, 2009
1315 posts
1185 upvotes
Oshawa
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 2:24 am
It's hard to do because basically you are asking private individuals to provide a public service that they do want to provide. This could be for a million and one different reasons. But to start, I would make it economically profitable to rent out their dwellings. Give massive tax breaks and make rental regulations much much more flexible. Nobody leaves money on the table repeatedly, especially long term. I don't rent out my unit because being a landlord is woefully unprofitable. The damage to the unit and the emotional pain and suffering is just too costly. Being a landlord in Vancouver shortens your life.

If they are flipping, then let them flip until prices stabilize. We have to be patient but it looks like the market is stabilizing. Vancouver does not have a huge problem with vacant units when compared to other cities.

Image
Wow. A pile of Fake News here.
Can you see the part of the chart where Vancouver has one of the biggest increases in empty homes between 2001 and 2016?
Not just that, but we all know the reasons why. Foreign buyers are not flocking in and people are not flipping homes in St.John's, Saskatoon and Halifax.
Please.
This is the best part...
"Give massive tax breaks and make rental regulations much much more flexible."
You complain about Lefties. So who pays for your version of subsidized housing?
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Motoss wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 7:30 pm
Yikes..

I appreciate you being so passionate about what you write as being correct, however unfortunately you are wrong.

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columni ... ew-zealand
Basic economics of supply and demand is wrong Smiling Face With Open Mouth? Maybe according to lefties who don't believe in markets.

I know what your problem is. You only read articles that confirm your biases written by people who don't understand markets.
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2006
1671 posts
701 upvotes
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:29 pm
Basic economics of supply and demand is wrong Smiling Face With Open Mouth? Maybe according to lefties who don't believe in markets.

I know what your problem is. You only read articles that confirm your biases written by people who don't understand markets.
lol.. show me something that supports what you are saying..
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
pkrash wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:22 pm
Wow. A pile of Fake News here.
Can you see the part of the chart where Vancouver has one of the biggest increases in empty homes between 2001 and 2016?
Not just that, but we all know the reasons why. Foreign buyers are not flocking in and people are not flipping homes in St.John's, Saskatoon and Halifax.
Please.
This is the best part...
"Give massive tax breaks and make rental regulations much much more flexible."
You complain about Lefties. So who pays for your version of subsidized housing?
I know it is 2018 in Canada but this is getting ridiculous Smiling Face With Open Mouth. Just ignore empty homes like how you should ignore "obscene wealth". They don't impact you except that their existence morally outrages you for some reason. Lower home prices by rezoning and building.

Why do we need subsidized housing? Live where you don't need to be subsidized. Government should alleviate distress in the most cost efficient way possible and only for those who are so handicapped that they cannot even earn their own food and shelter.
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Motoss wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:46 pm
lol.. show me something that supports what you are saying..
Observe the markets Smiling Face With Open Mouth.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jul 29, 2003
18091 posts
1449 upvotes
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:29 pm
Basic economics of supply and demand is wrong Smiling Face With Open Mouth? Maybe according to lefties who don't believe in markets.

I know what your problem is. You only read articles that confirm your biases written by people who don't understand markets.
Perhaps this will help. Vancouver's own city planner see it as a problem. Gil Kelley was head of planning departments in San Francisco, Berkeley and Portland before landing in Vancouver 2 years ago.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e36365883/
The city has long argued for more supply as a remedy to the crisis. As everyone can plainly see, that hasn't worked, says Patrick Condon, chair of the Urban Design program at the University of B.C.

"If we only had people in our local region who were influencing the purchase price of housing, that would be fine – the laws of supply and demand would pertain. But it is increasingly obvious that what's affecting our market is global flows of wealth."

Recognizing a problem, the City announced this year that it would set housing targets based on incomes, not merely the number of units built. Luxury units in particular haven't been useful to the average resident.

"We have been producing a lot of housing, but most of that housing has been of a supply that meets investor preferences. It's really the high end of the market," says Mr. Kelley.
R.I.P. Rick Rypien #37

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Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2006
1671 posts
701 upvotes
Haz wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:50 pm
Perhaps this will help. Vancouver's own city planner see it as a problem. Gil Kelley was head of planning departments in San Francisco, Berkeley and Portland before landing in Vancouver 2 years ago.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e36365883/
Thank you for posting - I believe I posted this or someone else did - regardless thanks again for posting.
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2006
1671 posts
701 upvotes
zakarydoks wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:48 pm
Observe the markets Smiling Face With Open Mouth.
Zakardoks - It has been fun but you’ve lost it!
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Haz wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:50 pm
Perhaps this will help. Vancouver's own city planner see it as a problem. Gil Kelley was head of planning departments in San Francisco, Berkeley and Portland before landing in Vancouver 2 years ago.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-es ... e36365883/
Did this lefty fix the problems in San Francisco or did he make them worse? Free markets, free trade, laws of supply and demand is global. You cannot remain local in 2018 if you want wealth and prosperity for your citizens.
Deal Addict
Jan 14, 2009
1601 posts
628 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Motoss wrote:
Feb 12th, 2018 9:58 pm
Zakardoks - It has been fun but you’ve lost it!
Last week has been rough for marketeers but we are a sturdy bunch Smiling Face With Sunglasses. No need to worry about me.
Deal Addict
Oct 7, 2007
3719 posts
1056 upvotes
This thread is losing my interest as the discussion no longer seems to be rational nor one that seems to be helpful. Clearly, there are those who are well-informed and in touch with reality and then there are those who THINK they are well-informed but contradict all of the data and findings supported by fact (which many of the rational posters keep citing). I am lucky enough to not be biased by being an investor but I think not facing reality in what is a crisis situation for our province and the city of Vancouver is not going to help solve the problem.
Deal Fanatic
Jan 27, 2006
8585 posts
2920 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
Just did a follow-up search for houses on freehold lots in Vancouver, Burnaby, and New West (not Queensborough) under $1 million and the numbers seem to be growing with a different type thrown in the mix -

Vancouver - 6 houses (the same one on Marine Drive that didn't sell at $929,000 but is now listed at $950,000, 1 on Boundary next to Central Park, 4 in the 'rougher part of East Vancouver' at just under a million) - 2 fully renovated older home, 2 split into suites for rentals (2 or 3 suites), and 2 tear downs. This number is up big from the previous sample.

New West - 6 houses same ones as before. ($868,000 to just under a million).

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