VISA/MC Merchants

[PwrSurge]

Upon further investigation, it does appear that Pivotal has totally taken over Tangarine as my caller ID shows their number as 514-313-1190 when they called me instead of a 905 number from St. Catharines. However, the footer of their website states that they are an Evalon Payments partner:

"Copyright © 2010 Tangarine Payment Solutions. All Rights Reserved.
Tangarine Payment Solutions is an Elavon Payments Partner & Registered MSP/ISO"

Need to confirm that Tangarine is simply Pivotal using a different brand name as there are lots of horror stories about merchants getting screwed by Pivotal.

[owlbill]

Upon further investigation, it does appear that Pivotal has totally taken over Tangarine as my caller ID shows their number as 514-313-1190 when they called me instead of a 905 number from St. Catharines. However, the footer of their website states that they are an Evalon Payments partner:

"Copyright © 2010 Tangarine Payment Solutions. All Rights Reserved.
Tangarine Payment Solutions is an Elavon Payments Partner & Registered MSP/ISO"

Need to confirm that Tangarine is simply Pivotal using a different brand name as there are lots of horror stories about merchants getting screwed by Pivotal.

http://www.pivotalpayments.com/ca/en...ent-solutions/

Not sure if things have changed since then.

[Kimberley-Robyn]

Hi there,

Please don't make that mistake. In their particular contract it is stated in fine print that "we reserve the right to change your rate without notice". First of all they can't afford to give you those rates. They have to buy the credit (just like you do...it's called interchange) and they have to buy the surcharges too. (those are your qualified and non qualified rates...ie card not present, corporate, premium or rewards...). Ask your rep to fax you a copy of the contract first and review it for yourself.
I've met alot of very unhappy merchants who boarded onto that platform. Tangerine is owned by Pivotal Payments. They were bought by them in the past year. They are a credit reseller in partnership with Global Payments.

Moneris is not bad but they quite often ding a full percentage or 1.15% for non-qual. This can add up to alot of money. There's a few companies where you can get a deal like 1.59% Visa, 1.62% MC with a non-qual bump of only 0.30% , 5 or 6 cents debit with no item rate on CC's. Let me know if you are interested and I can send you info. www.coveymerchantconsultants.com

Also...with Tangerine (Pivotal) there IS a set up fee, there are "Push" Fees, there may or may not be a debit minimum, there most certainly is a credit minimum. You may simply be dealing with a rep who really wants their commission and is not being 100% forthcoming.

To my knowledge, they are owned by Pivotal Payments. READ THE CONTRACT very carefully is my only warning, especially the "end of term" stuff and cancellation fees. Pivotal requires at least 6 months written notice that you are not renewing the contract, or it automatically renews for 5 more years.

Also, take a good look at the following:

Discount (interchange) rate
Assessment (card brand) fee
Non-qualified rates (not swiped)
.....and all that stuff. Those rates sound too low to me since I think the published VISA discount (interchange) is I think higher than what they are charging you.

To be honest, the best I found so far was actually Moneris with regard to full disclosure of what the rates are and why as well as all the account fees to be charged.

[owlbill]

Hey Guys... I am an independent consultant for merchant accounts. I came across this thread of conversation as I was searching for info to assist one of my clients who is desperate to get away from Monex.
I would like to share a few important points with those of you who are looking for a decent merchant service provider. First of all regardless of whether you go for a direct relationship with a credit acquirer like Paymentech or Moneris or whether you go with an ISO provider like Costco or Poseidon or EVO ....The bottom line is that they are in business to make money...just like you are! There will always be a cost to doing business and this is a needed service for most industries... However, having said that , there does remain several good, ethical companies out there who provide cost effective rates, good service and good equipment.
Here is important info for you to know when shopping for a provider: Banks and Providers purchase credit from Visa and Mastercard in order to resell it to merchants. The rate that Visa/MC charges the bank for credit is called Interchange. Interchange determines what rate you will be offered. Subsequently if Visa/Mc is charging the bank 1.50% for credit, the bank (or provider) can't very well turn around and resell it to you for 1.30%. They wouldn't be in business very long. When you see an offer for a rate that is well below the normal rate DON'T BITE. Some ill reputed companies will actually offer these type of rates to encourage merchants to sign with them. The only way the companies can stay afloat is by padding your contract with all types of nasty unexpected fees to make up for the revenue they've lost on the rates. Then...a few months down the road they'll suddenly tell you that you signed for an "introductory rate" and the introductory period is over. You'll soon get a statement with a much higher than average rate.
Look for a company that will assign your business a good decent rate somewhere between 1.59% to 1.69%. Look for a company that WILL NOT prorate your discount percentage based on volume. If you rate has been assigned at 1.62% it should be 1.62% whether you do 10 transactions or 1010 transactions in a month.
Also be aware of non-qualified surcharges and assessment fees. They can kill a small business if not properly applied. Select a company that has a low basic rate for mid and non-qualified transactions as opposed to a company that has various different surcharges for different types of cards.
Last but not least...use the services of an independent merchant account consultant to guide you through the process and help you avoid the pitfalls. It's a free service that can potentially save a merchant thousands of dollars and prevent alot of unnecessary stress. There are alot of wolves out there... This is a major committment and you don't want to regret your decision two weeks or two months down the road!

Maybe I am thinking too much about this, but if this is a free service, why have you not mentioned the names of these "good" companies to deal with. I assume that there is a referral arrangement for you so if you tell us all publicly, it does not help you out, or any other consultant. If this is true, are the companies we would be referred to by you, or any consultant, really "good" companies, or is it just a business relationship between them and the consultants?

I don't mean for this to be taken the wrong way, I am just trying to find out how to get what is best for us. Can a consultant help a merchant get out of rediculous cancellaton fees in order to switch?

[Kimberley-Robyn]

Maybe I am thinking too much about this, but if this is a free service, why have you not mentioned the names of these "good" companies to deal with. I assume that there is a referral arrangement for you so if you tell us all publicly, it does not help you out, or any other consultant. If this is true, are the companies we would be referred to by you, or any consultant, really "good" companies, or is it just a business relationship between them and the consultants?

I don't mean for this to be taken the wrong way, I am just trying to find out how to get what is best for us. Can a consultant help a merchant get out of rediculous cancellaton fees in order to switch?

Hi owlbill,

Thank you for your honest response. I work as a broker . It is the same as an insurance broker or a mortgage broker. I have relationships with various bank providers (ISO's)in the industry that I can negotiate processing arrangements with on behalf of my clients.
This is free to the client. Should you choose to "board" with a provider that I have steered you towards or to accept a deal that I have negotiated/brokered for you then that particular bank/provider/ISO pays me.

I can tell you to call this company or that company but if you don't know the industry or the terminology or what certain things mean to your business then you can still stumble into a pitfall. If you get a hungry rep on the other end of the line you may ,in some unfortunate situations, not get the whole truth...ie misrepresentation.
I am able to offer clients different options based on their specific type of transactions. For example, if you were a merchant who processed 70 percent of your business as card-not-present I would set you up with a provider who I could negotiate a lower non-qualified surcharge (after interchange) thereby saving you substantial money.

If you do alot of smaller ticket CC transactions we would look to set you up with the lowest discounted rate and waive item fees etc...

Every merchant is different and certain processors are better for some industries than others. They are not all created equal.

I prefer ISO's for the majority of my clients because they cater to the small to midsize business market. These clients are their bread and butter so they work a bit harder to earn the business whereas the direct big bank providers work with the Walmarts and McDonald's of the world and are not generally so concerned with striking a good deal with a corner store. It's about where the profit margin is.
I generally like to board clients through Peoples, EVO, Elavon affiliates, etc...
(Those are the names you requested!)

There are also several companies that I wouldn't board my worst enemy through and have helped many folks to get away from bad deals. Sometimes the new company will pay a portion of the cancellation fee -sometimes even in it's entirety -when it is a normal cancellation fee of a couple hundred dollars... Sometimes when it's abnormal and insane(90 months-7 YEARS-Monex $5000!No kidding!) we have to get creative!

The bottom line is that I aim to help the merchant make the best decision for his/her business and if that means walking away from a potential deal for me... that's ok too! I treasure being able to sleep at night.
(Bill W)

Hope this answers your questions...

[owlbill]

Hi owlbill,

Thank you for your honest response. I work as a broker . It is the same as an insurance broker or a mortgage broker. I have relationships with various bank providers (ISO's)in the industry that I can negotiate processing arrangements with on behalf of my clients.
This is free to the client. Should you choose to "board" with a provider that I have steered you towards or to accept a deal that I have negotiated/brokered for you then that particular bank/provider/ISO pays me.

I can tell you to call this company or that company but if you don't know the industry or the terminology or what certain things mean to your business then you can still stumble into a pitfall. If you get a hungry rep on the other end of the line you may ,in some unfortunate situations, not get the whole truth...ie misrepresentation.
I am able to offer clients different options based on their specific type of transactions. For example, if you were a merchant who processed 70 percent of your business as card-not-present I would set you up with a provider who I could negotiate a lower non-qualified surcharge (after interchange) thereby saving you substantial money.

If you do alot of smaller ticket CC transactions we would look to set you up with the lowest discounted rate and waive item fees etc...

Every merchant is different and certain processors are better for some industries than others. They are not all created equal.

I prefer ISO's for the majority of my clients because they cater to the small to midsize business market. These clients are their bread and butter so they work a bit harder to earn the business whereas the direct big bank providers work with the Walmarts and McDonald's of the world and are not generally so concerned with striking a good deal with a corner store. It's about where the profit margin is.
I generally like to board clients through Peoples, EVO, Elavon affiliates, etc...
(Those are the names you requested!)

There are also several companies that I wouldn't board my worst enemy through and have helped many folks to get away from bad deals. Sometimes the new company will pay a portion of the cancellation fee -sometimes even in it's entirety -when it is a normal cancellation fee of a couple hundred dollars... Sometimes when it's abnormal and insane(90 months-7 YEARS-Monex $5000!No kidding!) we have to get creative!

The bottom line is that I aim to help the merchant make the best decision for his/her business and if that means walking away from a potential deal for me... that's ok too! I treasure being able to sleep at night.
(Bill W)

Hope this answers your questions...

Thank you for the reply and clarification. I appreciate it.

[Gleb]

Hi owlbill,

Thank you for your honest response. I work as a broker . It is the same as an insurance broker or a mortgage broker. I have relationships with various bank providers (ISO's)in the industry that I can negotiate processing arrangements with on behalf of my clients.
This is free to the client. Should you choose to "board" with a provider that I have steered you towards or to accept a deal that I have negotiated/brokered for you then that particular bank/provider/ISO pays me.

...

I have just used Kimberley's service and it worked very well for me.
In my particular case, I have executive membership with Costco and I got all Costco benefits combined with much better rates provided by Kimberley.
Got a very nice deal as a result.
Thanks, Kimberley! :-)

[beacontide]

I have used the Evalon based services through Costco.....monthly fee for the terminal is $25 then a percentage which was far better than Moneris, taken off the top for transactions. Only 8 cents for debiting! I can use the terminal at either of my offices or home...where ever a phone line is available and it is fairly easy to transport. The convenience and time I have saved going to the bank each day after work, far justifies the cost to me. Definately check out costco for the best pricing though....

[Cristian_01]

I have used the Evalon based services through Costco.....monthly fee for the terminal is $25 then a percentage which was far better than Moneris, taken off the top for transactions. Only 8 cents for debiting! I can use the terminal at either of my offices or home...where ever a phone line is available and it is fairly easy to transport. The convenience and time I have saved going to the bank each day after work, far justifies the cost to me. Definately check out costco for the best pricing though....

Hi,
Would it be possible to post (or send me privately) the rates you have with Costco? I work in the industry and the provider I sell for uses Elavon as well.
Thank you,
Cristian.

[Drew_W]

Hi,
Would it be possible to post (or send me privately) the rates you have with Costco? I work in the industry and the provider I sell for uses Elavon as well.
Thank you,
Cristian.

They're all over this forum and posted on Costco's website.

[Cristian_01]

They're all over this forum and posted on Costco's website.

Yes, I am aware of the posted rates, but in my experience I found that sometimes merchants can get a better deal, which is why I asked.
Cristian.

[blueandy1601]

#1. No issues with purchasing a unit off eBay. Security? It's completely reprogrammed. No security issues.

#2. Re reprogramming, I don't see why the providers don't benefit from it. Sure they don't financially, but the only reason I'm still with Elavon is because they let me reprogram a bunch of Ingenico terminals from eBay, including a 7780 Bluetooth wireless one. This "value added" means I dump tens of thousands of dollars in merchant fees into their bank account every year.

I own a small home based business and i am going into a trade show - and was thinking of buying a wireless unit off of ebay - how has your experience been with the units you bought off of ebay-

thanks for your time

[opuscalgary]

Can anyone enlighten us all with Elavon's policy regarding programming your own terminal?

The savings are very significant to purchase the hardware on eBay (or similar) vs purchasing directly from Elavon or renting from them.

I know that some posters in this thread are using their own hardware. But when I phoned Elevon they said that there is absolutely no way to use customer-provided hardware

...I wonder if it makes a difference if you sign up with Costco vs. one of the other Elevon resellers?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jack, saving money by home reprogramming is the equivelent of distilling your own gasoline in the backyard - questionalbe for you,& a terror for your neighbours!
Multiple levels of encription protect your s,& more importantly, your consumers /customers credit & banking info.
If you get 5 years out of your POS terminal its in need of junking. Part of thecost of doing business...

[Cristian_01]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Jack, saving money by home reprogramming is the equivelent of distilling your own gasoline in the backyard - questionalbe for you,& a terror for your neighbours!
Multiple levels of encription protect your s,& more importantly, your consumers /customers credit & banking info.
If you get 5 years out of your POS terminal its in need of junking. Part of thecost of doing business...

Wow, I haven't seen this thread in a long time...

Opus, the terminal is never programmed by the merchant - some providers will do that (very few and very rarely will they agree to something like this), and it is done by the provider connecting their servers to the terminal. I (and this is my opinion only) would still not consider it safe.

With this said, a provider will have to actually support the type of terminal you have as different models use different software. Also, some providers have proprietory software, so you might end up with an expensive paper weight.

As for the length of service - I've seen terminals older than 10 years, they are actually designed to last between 7 and 12, which is a good reason for the merchant to buy one instead of renting (providing you have the proper warranty on it).

Hope this helps,
Cristian.