Automotive

VW e-Golf starting at 36K

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  • Jun 22nd, 2018 10:09 pm
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RedStrikeCa wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 6:41 am
I purchased a 2017 Ford Focus Electric below MSRP. My OTR price was $21500 with leather seats. MSRP was $33k so savings from MSRP was about 4k (also had $14k rebate). Although the Ford Focus Electric is only sold in Quebec for 2018, my point here is that EVs should be negotiated below MSRP.
Ford vs VW. Demand vs offer. I've tried to get some sort of rebate. It's the price to pay to be the first in. Same thing when I bought my Golf R in 2016. Barely able to get 500$ off.
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RedStrikeCa wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 6:41 am
I purchased a 2017 Ford Focus Electric below MSRP. My OTR price was $21500 with leather seats. MSRP was $33k so savings from MSRP was about 4k (also had $14k rebate). Although the Ford Focus Electric is only sold in Quebec for 2018, my point here is that EVs should be negotiated below MSRP.
You didn't negotiate though, I think. You got either roadshow discount or employee price + Costco discount. Ford dealerships did not want to negotiate anything as demand was huge.
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Discounts are rare on EV's in Ontario, as noted, the Ford Focus EV discounts were offered for their entire range of vehicles, and the EV go caught up in them, forcing Ford dealers to sell the car below MSRP.

I negotiated $2500 off my new Smart ED, having been a previous owner, and knowing that the dealer was effectively not interested in selling the car, but pre-ordered a minimum set of vehicles to satisfy corporate Daimler requirements. Dealer will not be stocking Smart ED, you must custom order. It may be possible to negotiate, but I don't know.

Have seen a small number of posts in 2017 where people claimed to have received a discount on an EV purchase, but it's not the norm.
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my point here is that EVs should be negotiated below MSRP.
Average time to get EV in Ontario right now is 6 to 8 months, if you get lucky.
If you get unlucky, it could be up to 14 months, see post of JeffyStud in
here

You can negotiate all you want, but if there's 20 people in front of you, who's willing to pay MSRP for the same car,
I've got bad news for you.
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Dec 3, 2017
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If one has to pay the full MSRP, then the price is quite high even with the government incentive. (I would have thought that as with other cars, one is expected to bargain for something significantly cheaper.)

The MSRP-based offer I saw from a dealer for a 3-year lease (which maximizes the value of the government incentive) comes to almost $800/month for the most basic version, and almost $900/month for the fully loaded one. After the $14,000 incentive, this means I'm looking at between $400 and $500 per month. That's still enough money to lease a very nice gas car, certainly one more luxurious than even the fully-loaded E-Golf.

There's of course the saving on gas, but I'd be driving this car only for everyday commuting and errands within the city, and using my other gas car for any trips where I'm going with the whole family, or where there is a significant distance. So I don't think I'd be doing more than 10-15 thousand kilometers per year. With a reasonably fuel-efficient gas car, that would be less than $100/month saving on gas even if electricity were free (which it isn't).

Am I missing something here, or is there really no good economic case for getting this car? (Unless maybe your daily commute distance happens to fall just short of its range, so you maximize the saving on gas while still being able to cover it?)

This still doesn't mean I wouldn't get it, as I really like it a lot. (I'm very attracted to both the traditional Golf design and the idea of driving an EV.) However, the question is whether I should realistically consider it as an expensive luxury rather than a cost-effective choice.
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Vuchko wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 11:08 pm
If one has to pay the full MSRP, then the price is quite high even with the government incentive. (I would have thought that as with other cars, one is expected to bargain for something significantly cheaper.)

The MSRP-based offer I saw from a dealer for a 3-year lease (which maximizes the value of the government incentive) comes to almost $800/month for the most basic version, and almost $900/month for the fully loaded one. After the $14,000 incentive, this means I'm looking at between $400 and $500 per month. That's still enough money to lease a very nice gas car, certainly one more luxurious than even the fully-loaded E-Golf...
You have to do your own math... It's different for everybody. Most of the saving comes from the gas. For me, I'm trading a Golf R for an e-Golf. Since my Golf R is worth about the same as the e-Golf, I save all the taxes an I get a the government incentive.
I buy the car. I don't believe in leasing.

So I save about:
-240$/month of gas
-20$/month insurance
-100$/month car payment
-100$/month (credit for green car, toll bridge)
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Feb 24, 2012
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Vuchko wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 11:08 pm
If one has to pay the full MSRP, then the price is quite high even with the government incentive. (I would have thought that as with other cars, one is expected to bargain for something significantly cheaper.)

The MSRP-based offer I saw from a dealer for a 3-year lease (which maximizes the value of the government incentive) comes to almost $800/month for the most basic version, and almost $900/month for the fully loaded one. After the $14,000 incentive, this means I'm looking at between $400 and $500 per month. That's still enough money to lease a very nice gas car, certainly one more luxurious than even the fully-loaded E-Golf.

There's of course the saving on gas, but I'd be driving this car only for everyday commuting and errands within the city, and using my other gas car for any trips where I'm going with the whole family, or where there is a significant distance. So I don't think I'd be doing more than 10-15 thousand kilometers per year. With a reasonably fuel-efficient gas car, that would be less than $100/month saving on gas even if electricity were free (which it isn't).

Am I missing something here, or is there really no good economic case for getting this car? (Unless maybe your daily commute distance happens to fall just short of its range, so you maximize the saving on gas while still being able to cover it?)

This still doesn't mean I wouldn't get it, as I really like it a lot. (I'm very attracted to both the traditional Golf design and the idea of driving an EV.) However, the question is whether I should realistically consider it as an expensive luxury rather than a cost-effective choice.
Your lease numbers are off to me... A base model with the incentive in was $290 a month including tax and I am paying $370 a month for a car with tech and dap. This is based on a 36 month, 16,000km year lease at 0.98%.

If you reduced to 12,000km a year it would shave off another $10.00 approx per month based on the quotes I have from when I got the car.

Otherwise I agree that the use case is fairly narrow. It either fits or it doesn't. For me I was hard pressed to find a car that would lease for this amount, with the same amount of tech/build quality and had the monetary benefit of not using gas/needs of servicing as an ICE car (oil changes etc).
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typer100 wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 9:03 am
You have to do your own math... It's different for everybody. Most of the saving comes from the gas. For me, I'm trading a Golf R for an e-Golf. Since my Golf R is worth about the same as the e-Golf, I save all the taxes an I get a the government incentive.
I buy the car. I don't believe in leasing.

So I save about:
-240$/month of gas
-20$/month insurance
-100$/month car payment
-100$/month (credit for green car, toll bridge)
I think you have a conservative amount of savings of gas per month. You'll probably save more than you think with the e-Golf, maybe up to double what you posted. I think it'll surprise you.
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Dec 3, 2017
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Belzy77 wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 11:22 am
Your lease numbers are off to me... A base model with the incentive in was $290 a month including tax and I am paying $370 a month for a car with tech and dap. This is based on a 36 month, 16,000km year lease at 0.98%.
If you don’t mind sharing, what residual do these lease numbers assume?

The quote I got had only 40% residual. So with MSRP+$1655 fees, just depreciation+fees would be about $23,500/$26,500 total obligation for basic vs. fully loaded. With 13% tax that would mean about $740/$830 per month. Add 2% interest and miscellaneous other costs/fees, and we get approximately to the $800/$900 pre-incentive figure I mentioned.

$14,000 over 36 months comes to about $390/month, so I’d still be on the hook for $400-$500 per month, depending on the options.

I don’t see how this could go down by over $100/month unless the residual is far higher. If my calculation is right, it would have to be over 45%.
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radeonboy wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 12:10 pm
I think you have a conservative amount of savings of gas per month. You'll probably save more than you think with the e-Golf, maybe up to double what you posted. I think it'll surprise you.
I only do 16000km/year. Only car sleeps in a heated garage so it helps on gas. I also need super for my Golf R
During summer I have my piggy back device and using 94ultra at PetroCan. Paid up to 1.53$/liter at some point during last summer.
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Vuchko wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 12:20 pm
If you don’t mind sharing, what residual do these lease numbers assume?

The quote I got had only 40% residual. So with MSRP+$1655 fees, just depreciation+fees would be about $23,500/$26,500 total obligation for basic vs. fully loaded. With 13% tax that would mean about $740/$830 per month. Add 2% interest and miscellaneous other costs/fees, and we get approximately to the $800/$900 pre-incentive figure I mentioned.

$14,000 over 36 months comes to about $390/month, so I’d still be on the hook for $400-$500 per month, depending on the options.

I don’t see how this could go down by over $100/month unless the residual is far higher. If my calculation is right, it would have to be over 45%.
On a 36month lease, residual should be around 55%. VW.ca calculator is offline for an -e-Golf, but I did the math using a regular Golf. With no cash, is 36M/16K we are at 372$/month
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Vuchko wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 12:20 pm
If you don’t mind sharing, what residual do these lease numbers assume?

The quote I got had only 40% residual. So with MSRP+$1655 fees, just depreciation+fees would be about $23,500/$26,500 total obligation for basic vs. fully loaded. With 13% tax that would mean about $740/$830 per month. Add 2% interest and miscellaneous other costs/fees, and we get approximately to the $800/$900 pre-incentive figure I mentioned.

$14,000 over 36 months comes to about $390/month, so I’d still be on the hook for $400-$500 per month, depending on the options.

I don’t see how this could go down by over $100/month unless the residual is far higher. If my calculation is right, it would have to be over 45%.
The 12,000km was 45% and the 16,000km was 44% on 2017. This was as of end of November when I picked up the car. The residual is set by VW Credit so there shouldn't be any difference amongst dealers. I would assume the 2018 would be higher as it is the beginning of the model year.
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Vuchko wrote:
Jan 14th, 2018 11:08 pm
.... even if electricity were free (which it isn't).

Am I missing something here, or is there really no good economic case for getting this car?
In some cases your electricity is free if you charge up at shopping malls, community facilities, etc. that offer free charging (for the present time).
I seldom need to plug in at home (maybe $20 worth p.a.) and have spent only $15 for a Flo card for free charging at many convenient locations.

But anyway, you have said you are attracted to the idea of driving an EV - and this needs to be your main motivation, not hard-to-quantify cost savings.

I am continually amazed at the lengths some prospective EV buyers go to in analyzing the running costs.
Some will even build in gas price fluctuations and if the EV running costs fail to work out by even a dollar in some future year then the purchase plan is summarily dismissed.
You are either into EVs or you are not. If you need to convince yourself with numbers just wait a few years and then your migration path will be much clearer.
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Dec 3, 2017
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typer100 wrote:
Jan 15th, 2018 1:12 pm
On a 36month lease, residual should be around 55%. VW.ca calculator is offline for an -e-Golf, but I did the math using a regular Golf. With no cash, is 36M/16K we are at 372$/month
I don’t see how an EV can have the same residual percentage as a gas car, given that there’s no incentive on used ones. 55% of new E-Golf price would make a used one almost as expensive as new one in practice. (Maybe 10% cheaper if my math is right.) Who would pay that?
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Feb 24, 2012
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I just checked in vw.ca. For 2018 on 36 month lease it is 45% for 16,000km and 46% for 12,000km. The interest rate is up a point to 1.99%

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