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Wage Overpayment

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  • Dec 6th, 2017 8:39 pm
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Deal Addict
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
BTW...

Realistically, I was in your situation, I'd probably:
1) Phone up HR and bitch up a storm about their screw-ups, and that they've gotten everything they're going to get from me.
2) Wait for a demand letter from them
3) Get them to document how they calculated the overpayment (basically drag it out as long as possible)
4) Wait for the "Pay or we'll sue" letter (maybe, or maybe I'd just got to step 5. Depends how p1ssed off I was still)
5) Pay the buggers and get them out of my life

But if you're operating under the premise that you'd win if you went to court, I'm thinking you'll be out of luck. That's all I'm saying.

C

ETA: I'd also rip them a new one about the deductions that they weren't allowed to take off my last paycheck (when I talked to HR in step 1), and tell them that in exchange for not taking them to the Employment Standards people, they can just get out of my life.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
2059 posts
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Toronto
CNeufeld wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 3:56 pm
ETA: I'd also rip them a new one about the deductions that they weren't allowed to take off my last paycheck (when I talked to HR in step 1), and tell them that in exchange for not taking them to the Employment Standards people, they can just get out of my life.
Damn, instead of burning bridges, that's like blowing it up.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
22 posts
CNeufeld wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 3:56 pm
BTW...

Realistically, I was in your situation, I'd probably:
1) Phone up HR and bitch up a storm about their screw-ups, and that they've gotten everything they're going to get from me.
2) Wait for a demand letter from them
3) Get them to document how they calculated the overpayment (basically drag it out as long as possible)
4) Wait for the "Pay or we'll sue" letter (maybe, or maybe I'd just got to step 5. Depends how p1ssed off I was still)
5) Pay the buggers and get them out of my life

But if you're operating under the premise that you'd win if you went to court, I'm thinking you'll be out of luck. That's all I'm saying.

C

ETA: I'd also rip them a new one about the deductions that they weren't allowed to take off my last paycheck (when I talked to HR in step 1), and tell them that in exchange for not taking them to the Employment Standards people, they can just get out of my life.
CNeufeld - The steps you listed is exactly what I'm going to do.

My suspicion, given how large the company is (and my intimate knowledge of how disorganized they are internally), is that the HR/Payroll person is just "following procedure" by notifying my and requesting repayment.

I'm guessing a portion of these case just get paid out by individuals, and another portion is contested, at which point they usually back down (depending on the situation and how much is owed).


I guess the bottom line would be that I just didn't want to concede without a fight. If some people find those ethics questionable, that's cool - I gotta do what I think is right ultimately.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
22 posts
blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:00 pm
Damn, instead of burning bridges, that's like blowing it up.
You really like authority, don't you? I suppose you probably get immense pleasure everytime you have to pay taxes, and maybe even served in the military at some point?

I'm all for following the rules - just not blindly.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
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nileskramer wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:08 pm
You really like authority, don't you? I suppose you probably get immense pleasure everytime you have to pay taxes, and maybe even served in the military at some point?

I'm all for following the rules - just not blindly.
I don't get "immense pleasure" from paying taxes. I do what I need to do because that's the law. You don't have to follow the rules "blindly", but it doesn't mean you are right legally. As I've said before, is this a question of whether you need to pay it back ,or whether you should pay it back?

Legally need to pay it back? Yes

Should you pay it back? Depends on how you want to rationalize
Deal Addict
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Mar 23, 2008
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Edmonton
blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:00 pm
Damn, instead of burning bridges, that's like blowing it up.
Giving them the gears because they did something that any junior HR/payroll person should have know they weren't (not just ethically, but also legally) allowed to do? Yeah, that's blowing up a bridge...

C
Last edited by CNeufeld on Dec 6th, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
22 posts
blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:12 pm
I don't get "immense pleasure" from paying taxes. I do what I need to do because that's the law. You don't have to follow the rules "blindly", but it doesn't mean you are right legally. As I've said before, is this a question of whether you need to pay it back ,or whether you should pay it back?

Legally need to pay it back? Yes

Should you pay it back? Depends on how you want to rationalize
Right. All I was doing is trying to see if there was congruence between my subjective rationalization, and the law (which often times there is).

When a cop pulls you over, legally you might be required to receive a ticket, but often times they apply rationalization specific to the situation. That's all I'm saying

As CNeufeld mentioned, I do have a couple of things I can fire back with, as they made a few errors on their end. I will. Pretty cut and dry.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
2059 posts
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Toronto
CNeufeld wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:16 pm
Giving them the gears because they did something that any junior HR/payroll person should have know they weren't allowed to do? Yeah, that's blowing up a bridge...
C
Inexperienced junior HR person I guess. I've had experienced a similar situation in the past where I was overpaid by a week for my bi-weekly paystub, and they ended up deciding a week from my next. I guess if I know for a fact that I was overpaid I wouldn't keep arguing. However, if I know I was underpaid, I'd fight it out.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
2059 posts
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Toronto
nileskramer wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:19 pm
Right. All I was doing is trying to see if there was congruence between my subjective rationalization, and the law (which often times there is).
I'm really not trying to attack you, just saying that if you need to pay it back, then yes because you were overpaid. Ethically, if you really don't want to pay them back, just wait it out and waste their time.
Deal Fanatic
May 29, 2006
8457 posts
1387 upvotes
owing a business/employer money and owing the bank/government money are very different situations. i would do nothing in this situation. if business A is out 200$, i can guarentee that 99% of them are going to swallow that cost go thier merry way.
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Mar 23, 2008
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blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:31 pm
Inexperienced junior HR person I guess. I've had experienced a similar situation in the past where I was overpaid by a week for my bi-weekly paystub, and they ended up deciding a week from my next. I guess if I know for a fact that I was overpaid I wouldn't keep arguing. However, if I know I was underpaid, I'd fight it out.
And if that's the case, they should be fed a healthy dose of crap, so they don't do it the next time. Apparently they need to learn some of the ESA.

C
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
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CNeufeld wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 4:44 pm
And if that's the case, they should be fed a healthy dose of crap, so they don't do it the next time. Apparently they need to learn some of the ESA.
C
At the end of the day, I feel like the junior HR person will be the one that suffers the most, not the employer. OP left because of how he's being treated, and the employer will just put his/her frustration towards the HR person.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 3, 2017
22 posts
blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 5:09 pm
At the end of the day, I feel like the junior HR person will be the one that suffers the most, not the employer. OP left because of how he's being treated, and the employer will just put his/her frustration towards the HR person.
With all due respect - "junior HR" person made a mistake that could have potentially had a huge impact on someones situation. What I was on the hook for paying back $10,000? Their mistake resulted in this. This brings me back to my original point that they have culpability. If they're a shitty company that will take out their frustrations on the junior HR person, then they should leave and find another job (and learn from their mistake). In fact, this company has an abysmal employee retention rate, due to a multitude of factors.
Deal Addict
Nov 22, 2009
2059 posts
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nileskramer wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 5:15 pm
With all due respect - "junior HR" person made a mistake that could have potentially had a huge impact on someones situation. What I was on the hook for paying back $10,000? Their mistake resulted in this. This brings me back to my original point that they have culpability. If they're a shitty company that will take out their frustrations on the junior HR person, then they should leave and find another job (and learn from their mistake). In fact, this company has an abysmal employee retention rate, due to a multitude of factors.
How are you going to justify to the court you didn't know you were overpaid by $10k??? If you were really overpaid by that much, you will not win this case in court.
Deal Addict
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Mar 23, 2008
4893 posts
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Edmonton
blitzforce wrote:
Dec 6th, 2017 5:09 pm
At the end of the day, I feel like the junior HR person will be the one that suffers the most, not the employer. OP left because of how he's being treated, and the employer will just put his/her frustration towards the HR person.
Your assumptions are often head-scratchers, btw... For whatever reason, you're assuming that a "junior HR person" was responsible for trying to collect the money incorrectly, and then you go off and postulate situations using your assumption as a fact.

In counterpoint, I'd be willing to bet that any decision to make significant payroll deductions like this would have to be signed off by a manager-level employee. The OP lost their last paycheck AS WELL AS another 3 figure amount, so we're probably talking about several thousand dollars.

C

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