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[Walmart] Walmart Rewards MasterCard: 1% Cash Back on All Purchases, 1.25% on Walmart Purchases

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Mar 3, 2002
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redcrake wrote: Thanks for the tip, but I don't know that these cards exist any longer.
They do. Otherwise, I wouldn't have bothered posting. Read the threads I linked to. People are still receiving both cards. I have the no-annual fee MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard. Someone I know has the MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard (just received this week). As, I stated earlier, however, both cards are not easy to obtain.
No sign on the mbna website, nor on the MasterCard.ca website.

MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard: https://www.mbna.ca/RWDapp/home?mc=WPWDCN&locale=en_CA

MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard: https://www.mbna.ca/RWDapp/home?mc=WPTRCN&locale=en_CA

You need to read the threads I linked to previously to understand what's going on.

and provide an update.
There's nothing to update since everything is already stated in the threads I linked to on RFD. And the first people you talk to at MBNA are almost always useless. You need to talk to the Loyalty department or a supervisor.

The no-annual fee MBNA Rewards World Elite card is offered by invitation only, and it requires you to already have an MBNA Rewards Mastercard or MBNA Travel Rewards Platinum Plus Mastercard and meet one of the following conditions: you must have a $70K annual salary, a $120K household salary, or a $25K annual spend on a MBNA Rewards MC.

If you cold-call (no MBNA Rewards MC) MBNA without being invited and meet those requirements, you may possibly be offered the $89 annual fee version instead: https://www.applyonlinenow.com/canada/t ... /#appapply. It seems reasonable to suspect that front line CSRs are being told to push the $89 version.


Regardless, the no-annual fee MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard does exist. I have it. I also received my $100 sign-up bonus. And people were invited this month and last month to this card.
Read the thread: mbna-rewards-world-elite-mc-cards-have-arrived-1334506


With respect to the MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard, first line CSRs (MBNA "account managers") will generally deny the existence (claiming that it used to exist--but is only now grandfathered) of the 2% cash back, no annual fee, MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard. However, the Loyalty department/supervisors are quite capable of dishing them out. Getting them to do so requires a bit of negotiation and luck. Someone I know received this card this week in the mail. Please note that is not a World card and has lower requirements. Here are some tips for negotiating for the RTP:

mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st16933727
mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st16931489


You can not call in and negotiate for a no annual fee MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard. Again, that card is invite only (and typically the invite is through your online MBNA Rewards MC account).
I agree that the 50% anniversary bonus is risky
The issue I'm raising has nothing to do with risk (although, point taken). Money now is always worth more than money later (basic principle usually taught in high school Economic classes). You can always invest money immediately. Having to wait an entire year for an anniversary bonus is not as good as being able to receive it before then. That said, with MBNA you must spend $2,500 first before receiving a $50 cheque or $50 credit on your Mastercard account.
If the 2% MBNA is unlimited then it is probably worth a look
Both cards I listed are unlimited with no tiers or annual fees.
given that you claim it is a World Mastercard
World Elite

And it's not a claim. The card simply exists. I have it.
On the other hand, MBNA burned a ton of goodwill and credibility when it gutted its Rewards card
No, not the MBNA Rewards Mastercard. Smartcash

And MBNA Mastercard is owned by TD. I note this change to Smartcash occurred after TD took over MBNA Mastercard in Canada.
Is there any reason to think that mbna won't pull another bait and switch?
No, that possibly exists regardless of the credit card company.
And all credit card companies can change whatever they want to, provided notice is given. All credit card companies
have this provision written into their terms. Another example is American Express suddenly introducing a $99 annual fee to its 2% (tiered) cash back Gold card after several years (I still have one, only because American Express keeps offsetting the annual fee for me by giving
me $100-$150 GCs each January. But the moment they stop giving me $100+ GCs is the moment I cancel their card): amex-gold-credit-card-2-cash-back-best- ... ed-971181/. The point being, no credit card is safe from changes. And should MBNA suddenly nerf or introduce annual fees, I will simply do business elsewhere, just as I would if any other credit card company did something similarly. I've ditched my Smartcash World MC.
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brunes wrote: I don't know what you are smoking but this card is HORRIBLE. Anyone who thinks this card is good needs to spend more time in the Personal Finance forum. There are many many no-fee cards better than this one.
More importantly, Walmart is often perceived as having unethical business practices with respect to how employees are treated and paid, but that's another conversation--and a debate that's probably not worth my time. Suffice it to say that I try to avoid Walmart as much as possible (although my partner sometimes likes buying her plants and flowers from there, much to my chagrin). I understand though that sometimes people don't have a choice. I am fortunate enough that based on where I live, I do.
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So whats the consensus for the best CC in terms of having a good cashback and the other necessities like extending your warranty for a general consumer (those that don't meet the World Elite)?
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icemasta wrote: So whats the consensus for the best CC in terms of having a good cashback and the other necessities like extending your warranty for a general consumer (those that don't meet the World Elite)?
MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard

2% cash back, unlimited, no tiers, no annual fee

Benefits are listed here: https://www.mbna.ca/RWDapp/benefits?mc= ... cale=en_CA

Requirements are lower than MBNA Rewards World Elite MC.

However, RTP is not easy to obtain. Regardless, MBNA Loyalty department/supervisors are quite capable of dishing RTP out. Again, someone I know just received the card this week. Here are some tips for negotiating for the RTP:

mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st16933727
mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st16931489


If you have a minimum 30K household income, there's this 1.25% cash back Capital One card, which I would still get way before the Walmart card:
http://www.capitalone.ca/credit-cards/a ... redit+Card


The following are the best no-annual fee cash back credit cards available in Canada:


1. mbna-rewards-world-elite-mc-cards-have-arrived-1334506/ (not easy to obtain)

2. mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... a-1219168/ (not easy to obtain, but the Loyalty dept./supervisors are able to issue it, and people are still receiving this card)

3. capital-one-aspire-cash-mastercard-worl ... r-1073421/ (if you can't get #1 or #2; this card has better travel insurance benefits)

4. merged-new-chase-visa-amazon-1160919/ (for anything you buy that's not in Canadian currency).

5. pay-your-bills-online-using-canadian-ti ... t-1149989/ (for paying gas and electricity bills or bills that you can't normally pay with a credit card)
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What Webslinger is not telling you is that this card is only for people with quite high revenue. If you make "only" $50000 a year like myself, you are not eligible, or it's virtually impossible to spend enough on an annual basis to be considered. It's also a crapshoot to get this card at all. People like him and many others on the finance forum do not seem to consider that it's not everyone who makes upper middle class revenue.

Lastly, it has an Amex-like merchant fee. If you get a very generous reward rate, the credit card company is not paying it out of the goodness of their heart, all the merchants you do business with are. Something like a bit less than 3% of every transaction goes to the emitter. I find it too much, especially for smaller retailers.

When taking all this into consideration, the Wal-Mart card is one of the best ones you can get: it has straight rewards, a very low barrier of entry, the standard MasterCard merchant fee, and you can cashback at any time you want so long as you have 5 Wal-Mart dollars accumulated.

For middle class RFDers, this card offers 1.25% cashback on everything, but Capital One is very stingy with credit limits, hence I didn't go for that one:

http://www.capitalone.ca/credit-cards/a ... redit+Card

All that said, I am still waiting after the card. The company sure is taking a really long time, I sent my application around May 11th. I called a little while ago and they said it had been sent out on June 6th, but we're the 21th now, it's getting unusually long. I should call back.

I'll be sure to post impressions when I get it.
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Dec 28, 2011
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MISSISSAUGA
I'm tired of walmart asking me if I want that stupid card every time I check out.

Why would I want 1% back for Walmart when I can easily get 1%+ back cash on other cards. No I don't want your stupid card, and no I don't want to donate $1 to X so you can claim the donation on your corporate taxes.
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SkimGuy wrote: If you do the math and actually spend enough, it can actually come ahead of some free cards. Just because it has an annual fee doesn't mean it's a bad card.
This. Just use one card for everything, and the paid cards become worth it. I don't see the need to use more than one card these days as long as it's a mastercard you can use it everywhere anyway. I personally only have two cards, the main one which is a paid cashback card and a td visa which I never use save for the rare td rewards ...
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Jul 5, 2006
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MBNA is not that good with the limitation of $400 for gas and groceries and $1250 for others. Do a small math and you will find the reward is capped to $20.5 if not $16.5 per month. I am seriously considering switching to Scotibank.
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Before I begin, I was responding to redcrake's claims concerning what the best no annual fee cash back cards are in Canada.
recradke was referencing a 1.5% Capital One Aspire Cash World Mastercard that requires a 60K+ salary.
So, Poutinesauce jumping in and complaining that I'm discussing a World card that has higher
requirements than normal cards has no bearing on the reason why I was responding in the first place.
Poutinesauce wrote: What Webslinger is not telling you is that this card is only for people with quite high revenue. If you make "only" $50000 a year like myself, you are not eligible
This is nonsense. A retired couple just received RTP this week. I'm pretty sure their annual salary is not 50K.
Poutinesauce wrote: or it's virtually impossible to spend enough on an annual basis to be considered.
If you have a good history with MBNA, it's still possible to get RTP. You do not require a 25K annual spend.

Poutinesauce wrote:It's also a crapshoot to get this card at all.
Webslinger wrote: Getting them to do so requires a bit of negotiation and luck.
Webslinger wrote:However, RTP is not easy to obtain.
I was pretty clear.
Specifically, you need luck with respect to getting the right person to talk to.
Regardless, it is possible to obtain this card.

Poutinesauce wrote: People like him and many others on the finance forum do not seem to consider that it's not everyone who makes upper middle class revenue.
:facepalm: Maybe you should avoid making generalizations concerning myself and "many others" in the finance forum, especially when you're mistaken.
Poutinesauce wrote:Lastly, it has an Amex-like merchant fee. If you get a very generous reward rate, the credit card company is not paying it out of the goodness of their heart, all the merchants you do business with are. Something like a bit less than 3% of every transaction goes to the emitter. I find it too much, especially for smaller retailers.
All the merchants I know try to gouge me every chance they get, with the exception of those I do tons of business with. If they want to offer me a deal to offset their gouging, then I'll pay cash if they want. I don't care. Otherwise, oh well, they lose my business. I, personally, have a bigger issue with supporting Walmart's business practices than being concerned with credit card merchant fees, but, again, that's a debate I don't want to be bothered with here.
When taking all this into consideration, the Wal-Mart card is one of the best ones you can get
Not really. $3.99 a year for extended warranty protection? No thanks

No day 90 purchase protection

No CDW for car rentals


For middle class RFDers, this card offers 1.25% cashback on everything
No. First, it's not cash. It's Walmart credit. Cash is a lot more flexible than Walmart credit.
You can use cash everywhere. So, this isn't a true cash back card. It's a Walmart Rewards card.
Walmart Rewards can only be redeemed at participating Walmart stores in Canada for payment (or partial payment)
of goods and services. Walmart Rewards cannot be redeemed for cash. That's a lot more restrictive than a true cash
back card.

Secondly, it's 1% on everything--not 1.25%.
It's only 1.25% on Walmart purchases.
but Capital One is very stingy with credit limits


The first reason you gave in this thread is that "I don't think I'm willing to deal with them at the moment due to their shady reputation". And now it's credit limits. As with most things in life, YMMV. Regardless, I fail to see, since you claim not to have a huge annual spend, why you
would need a gigantic credit limit anyway. But, obviously, the choice is yours to make.

My MBNA credit limit is pretty big (for my usage). I've never come close to a using a third of it.
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right4you wrote: MBNA is not that good with the limitation of $400 for gas and groceries and $1250 for others.
That's just Smartcash. Not MBNA Rewards MC (no limits on anything). BTW, the Smartcash World version removes the $1250 limit.
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Webslinger wrote: Before I begin, I was responding to redcrake's claims concerning what the best no annual fee cash back cards are in Canada.
recradke was referencing a 1.5% Capital One Aspire Cash World Mastercard that requires a 60K+ salary.
So, Poutinesauce jumping in and complaining that I'm discussing a World card that has higher
requirements than normal cards has no bearing on the reason why I was responding in the first place.



This is nonsense. A retired couple just received RTP this week. I'm pretty sure their annual salary is not 50K.



If you have a good history with MBNA, it's still possible to get RTP. You do not require a 25K annual spend.







I was pretty clear.
Specifically, you need luck with respect to getting the right person to talk to.
Regardless, it is possible to obtain this card.

:facepalm: Maybe you should avoid making generalizations concerning myself and "many others" in the finance forum, especially when you're mistaken.
Look, I'm sorry if you felt disrespected. I do seem to recall you telling me something like "it's doable to have 25k annual spend with the World Elite on a lower revenue", and I do sometimes get similar vibes on that section, but nevertheless I probably jumped the gun a bit too soon in this case. However, as you're saying yourself, getting this card is not easy, and in fact requires calling repeatedly and haggling aggressively, practically gaming the system MBNA has put in place. That's quite a high barrier of entry in and of itself, not something everyone will be willing to do. And according to your own posts in that thread, it looks like you need high revenue of spending for the candidate to begin to stand a chance.


Webslinger wrote: All the merchants I know try to gouge me every chance they get, with the exception of those I do tons of business with. If they want to offer me a deal to offset their gouging, then I'll pay cash if they want. I don't care. Otherwise, oh well, they lose my business. I, personally, have a bigger issue with supporting Walmart's business practices than being concerned with credit card merchant fees, but, again, that's a debate I don't want to be bothered with here.
If you do any business at all with a big financial institution or company it's inevitable going to become more inhumane. Regardless, I don't think adopting a similar attitude is the answer. And from what I have seen, it looks like independent Canadian retailers are fighting back against these premium cards with high merchant fees so they have the power to refuse them or charge over them. At the end of the day, even Wal-Mart is a company that offers goods and service, whereas credit card companies are just middlemen.


Webslinger wrote: Not really. $3.99 a year for extended warranty protection? No thanks

No day 90 purchase protection

No CDW for car rentals
For most people these would be considered gimmicks. I have never used such an extended warranty feature, and don't know anyone who did. It does not matter to me, and in the end it is probably a dead end with endless hoops to go through and clauses that make it so you are not reimbursed. But I really don't see this as useful to me.




Webslinger wrote: No. First, it's not cash. It's Walmart credit. Cash is a lot more flexible than Walmart credit.
You can use cash everywhere. So, this isn't a true cash back card. It's a Walmart Rewards card.
Walmart Rewards can only be redeemed at participating Walmart stores in Canada for payment (or partial payment)
of goods and services. Walmart Rewards cannot be redeemed for cash. That's a lot more restrictive than a true cash
back card.

Secondly, it's 1% on everything--not 1.25%.
It's only 1.25% on Walmart purchases.
I never said it is 1.25% on everything, that line applied to the Capital One card.

It is more restrictive than cash, but so long as the cashback credit can be redeemed for commodities and you aren't gauged on the rate (which you aren't with this card), I don't see that as a problem. You are only ever going to accumulate very small amounts anyway. There's always stuff you need from Wal-Mart, so in effect it doesn't really matter.


Webslinger wrote: The first reason you gave in this thread is that "I don't think I'm willing to deal with them at the moment due to their shady reputation". And now it's credit limits. As with most things in life, YMMV. Regardless, I fail to see, since you claim not to have a huge annual spend, why you
would need a gigantic credit limit anyway. But, obviously, the choice is yours to make.

My MBNA credit limit is pretty big (for my usage). I've never come close to a using a third of it.
Of course, in practice we don't need very high credit limits. The time when it becomes more of a hindrance is on the months where you make big purchases, and hope to get rewards for the whole amount of your purchase. For example this month I am moving out, so it means a few thousand dollars in fees. Or I might want to buy an expensive computer at some point. Capital One often gives first timers either a $1500 or $3000 credit limit, and you can't transfer more cash into your Capital One account to extend that limit.

I must say that their practices of giving very low limits in the hope that people will overspend by accident and Capital One will be able to charge them with exhorbitant fees for passing their limits left somewhat of a sour taste.
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Poutinesauce wrote: I do seem to recall you telling me something like "it's doable to have 25k annual spend with the World Elite on a lower revenue"
I'm not sure what you mean by revenue. If you mean annual salary, then, yes, that's right. If you have a 25K annual spend you meet the requirement of the MBNA Rewards World Elite (RWE) card.

But, more importantly, the MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard (RTP) also offers 2% cash back, and whatever the requirement is, it's lower
than the World Elite version.

However, as you're saying yourself, getting this card is not easy
Very true
and in fact requires calling repeatedly
Well, if you're lucky enough to get the right person in the Loyalty Department (or a supervisor), you only need to make one phone call.
But that's not the norm. And the very first person you talk to without being transferred is almost always useless.

and haggling aggressively
Okay, yes, you do need to be able to negotiate well.
practically gaming the system MBNA has put in place
lol What system? I've seen very little standardization with respect to the responses I get when I call in to MBNA.
Practically every time I call in, I get told different things.

I don't think it's "gaming" or manipulating anything though. I mean, you either qualify or you don't. If you qualify,
they should give you the stupid card already instead of having to negotiate (you can't negotiate for the World Elite card;
only the MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard can be negotiated for). Note that I'm saying that's what they should
do (ideally)--and not what they will do.
That's quite a high barrier of entry in and of itself, not something everyone will be willing to do.
I agree. But the point I was making is that these are two best Canadian no-annual fee cash back credit cards (if looking solely at cash back).

If you do any business at all with a big financial institution or company it's inevitable going to become more inhumane.
Well, I don't really want to get into a big debate about Walmart. But you can google "unethical" and "Walmart", and take a look at some of the results.
You may not agree with all of the accusations, and that's fine. I don't want to get into a debate about it. But, by comparison (and all of this stuff applies to American operations) . . .

Image (these are American wages)

Image

Walmart Pays Workers Poorly And Sinks While Costco Pays Workers Well And Sails-Proof That You Get What You Pay For

Also, you may find this interesting: Costco CEO Craig Jelinek Leads the Cheapest, Happiest Company in the World (American article)
And from what I have seen, it looks like independent Canadian retailers are fighting back against these premium cards with high merchant fees so they have the power to refuse them or charge over them
Yes, and they'll probably end up being boycotted, especially if other companies end up accepting credit cards without charging extra fees.

If it's a business I really like (if they treat me well, give me discounts, treat their employees well), I don't mind paying cash, though. If the business is really struggling and if I like the business, I'll pay cash.
For most people these would be considered gimmicks.
I strongly disagree. I have used the extended warranty (with Amex) and CDW. These can be useful features.
I have never used such an extended warranty feature, and don't know anyone who did.
I've read of several people making use of this feature on RFD, so some people do find the extended warranty feature very useful.

I never said it is 1.25% on everything, that line applied to the Capital One card.
Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to the Walmart Rewards card.
There's always stuff you need from Wal-Mart
I rarely shop there. But I realize many people do.

and you can't transfer more cash into your Capital One account to extend that limit
Yeah, I read that you can't ask for credit limit increases from Capital One, which does, indeed, suck.
I don't think a super low credit limit would apply to everyone though. It might be worth taking a chance to find
out. If you're getting 3K or below, then yeah, I could see that as being a problem.
I must say that their practices of giving very low limits in the hope that people will overspend by accident and Capital One will be able to charge them with exhorbitant fees for passing their limits left somewhat of a sour taste.
An acquaintance received a 7K credit limit from them. I could probably live with that. I have no clue what the norm is from Capital One though.
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Well I called them because I wasn't receiving the card, and the rep told me he would cancel it. But when I asked him to change my address for a Quebec one, he told me it wasn't possible because the government doesn't allow them to. I was surprised, but then I recalled never seeing any publicity for the Wal-Mart Mastercard in any Quebec Wal-Mart. I wonder why that is specifically that is the hold up, an institution like PC Financial will open accounts for Quebecois who apply in person in Ontario and change their address for a Quebec one. And I know that Costco advertises its Amex in Quebec stores, so I don't think the law forbids this. He told me you could culmulate Wal-Mart Rewards when purchasing in Quebec Wal-Mart stores, but not redeem the rewards there. This surprised me because some of their communications say that the rewards can be redeemed in any Canadian Wal-Mart.

So the rep told me he wouldn't make another card and all was fine, I had no other obligations.

Looks like the best option for me is the Aspire Cash Platinum, I hope Capital One won't hit me with a minuscule limit. I'll wait a while before applying, though.
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Nov 11, 2006
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Webslinger,

I agree that TD "influenced" MBNA's decision to gut the Smartcash rewards and in doing so, TD devalued the MBNA brand (which is owned by TD).

(This "culture clash" also took place when Ally - the online bank - was taken over by RY. For some reason, RY destroyed the unique niche which Ally occupied, when RY took over Ally and then, bizarrely, killed Ally's competitive advantage by pulling the plug on Ally's premium GIC )

I don't disbelieve your assertion re the MBNA (premium card) - forgive me for simplifying in the interest of avoiding confusion - but the threads are not relevant when other objective evidence is conspicuously absent. Nonetheless, it is true that the absence of evidence (or the lack of mention of this card on the MBNA website, and the Mastercard sited), is not necessarily, taken alone, evidence of absence. So what appears likely, is that this card is offered to good customers to retain such customers' business. Maybe the card is inured with a special prestige or status precisely because it is not readily marketed?

Ultimately, what is presented here, with respect to the relevant MBNA premium cards, is unique, in the sense that these cards are not readily available to most people, and indeed, their existence is not necessarily confirmed by the representatives of the card company. To clarify, unique should be understood to mean special, or extraordinary, and not to mean impossible or ridiculous in this case. Still, I don't think much is gained in discussing these MBNA premium cards since they MAY be awarded only under ambiguous circumstances which may or may not be entirely discretionary: there does not appear to be any established protocol in obtaining the card (e.g. keep calling back until you get a rep who knows something?!)
Parallel reasoning shows that this applies to, for example, the DISCOVER card (5% back in many stores). The rewards are excellent, but they are simply not generally available to people on this forum, and therefore irrelevent in the discussion of credit card rankings.

The concern about the 50% anniversary bonus is simply that a cardholder will almost always cancel his card prior to the "anniversary" (even if by dying). Accordingly, the .5% reward is lost for the relevant months. I think it is also important to recognize the distinction between points which have no fixed value and earned cash rewards, which are technically liabilities for the credit card company. So, for example, I could log on the Capital One website at any time, and redeem the earned cash rewards immediately. I can do nothing with my MBNA points except "sell" them back to MBNA at some point. And doesn't it make sense that MBNA being a self-interested, rational, profit-maximizing entity, would pay as little as it could for these points? I recall how the TD GM card slowly eroded over the years until the card basically provided no rewards of any sort: the amount of GM rewards which could be applied towards various GM automobiles shrank and shrank and shrank. Of course the GM rewards were technically points even though they appeared as a dollar amount on the statement.

Two final points:

I generally keep a credit balance on my credit cards because the cost of missing a payment, for any number of reasons including not receiving the statement, far outweighs the opportunity cost of providing the credit card company with an interest-free loan. In any case, Capital One without consultation or approval, sent me a cheque for that credit balance a few weeks ago. No other card has ever initiated this refund, so their move was a bit surprising. On further reflection, I believe that their actions can be interpreted as 1) good customer service and far more importantly 2) compelling evidence of the company's liquidity and healthy financial state.

The whole issue of credit card rewards may be moot given the fight between retailers and the credit card companies over transaction fees which are typically ascribed to the premium reward credit cards. The retailers claim that limiting credit card rewards would lower the retailers' credit transaction fees which would in turn allow the retailer to charge the customer a little bit less (passing the savings on, so to speak). While the argument is nonsense (after all, if the consumer is going to end up in the same economic position - fewer rewards but a slightly lower cost, as will the credit card companies - fewer transaction fee revenues are offset by fewer rewards required to maintain accounts, as will the retailers, then why create a ruckus?) and clearly duplicitous, there appears to be a real chance that the credit card rewards, such as they are, may be in peril. Check out the description of a card when applying for a credit card because in some cases you will see - in bold - a declaration that this particular credit card is a premium card, and that the applicant should be aware of this fact before applying for the card. Definitions are absent, and there is no explanation as to the relevance or importance of a "premium" card classification. Common sense suggests however, that these premium cards may ultimately be the cards which are found to be problematic insofar as their rewards are too generous. We shall see...
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redcrake wrote: the threads are not relevant when other objective evidence is conspicuously absent. Nonetheless, it is true that the absence of evidence (or the lack of mention of this card on the MBNA website, and the Mastercard sited), is not necessarily, taken alone, evidence of absence.
Mbna.ca is MBNA's website. The member websites for these cards (which I've listed in this thread previously) are hosted at mbna.ca and easily found using search engines, including google:

MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard https://www.mbna.ca/RWDapp/home?mc=WPWDCN&locale=en_CA

MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard https://www.mbna.ca/RWDapp/home?mc=WPTRCN&locale=en_CA

Mastercard site (World offers for MBNA card holders) http://www.mastercard.com/ca/cobrand/mb ... mastercard

As such, the MBNA cards in question exist, and there is plenty of evidence for them. Moreover, evidence clearly exists for MBNA World Mastercards
even if they are not blatantly advertised.
Ultimately, what is presented here, with respect to the relevant MBNA premium cards, is unique, in the sense that these cards are not readily available to most people
World and World Elite cards, in general, due to their requirements, are not "readily available to most people". The Capital One card you mentioned is a World card.

Regardless, the $89 annual fee version is pretty much available to anyone who meets one of the three World Elite requirements: https://www.applyonlinenow.com/canada/tmp-babl-en/ AFAIK, for that $89 annual fee Rewards World Elite card, you just need to call in to MBNA, provided you meet one of the requirements. However, I doubt I would ever be willing to pay that $89 annual fee.

The non-annual fee MBNA Rewards World Elite Mastercard, which I have, is invite only. You need the Regular MBNA Rewards MC first, need to meet one of the World requirements (making sure your online profile is up to date), and then need to patiently wait for an invite. People are still receiving this card.

The MBNA Rewards Travel Platinum Plus Mastercard can be negotiated for and is still being issued (you do require prior history with MBNA and need to be a valued customer in their eyes, yes). People are still receiving this card: mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st17005432
and not to mean impossible or ridiculous in this case.
The cards exist. Plenty of RFD members have them, and the cards are still being issued.
So that eliminates "impossible". "ridiculous" is subjective, at best. RFD members are still receiving these cards.
The rewards are excellent
Yes
but they are simply not generally available to people on this forum
Neither is the Capital One Aspire World card you mentioned that has higher income requirements than non-premium cards.

Most credit cards have requirements; some have more than others; and some require more effort to obtain.

and therefore irrelevent in the discussion of credit card rankings.
1) The MBNA cards mentioned not only exist but can still be obtained.

2) A growing number of RFD members have obtained one of these cards already and would not have were the cards not discussed. If they were never "generally available" (no more difficult than obtaining an invite-only World Elite card), I would never have had them in my possession. I do not feel I did anything special in order to obtain my cards (I am not an amazingly wonderful individual that was magically granted something). Furthermore, RFD members are still getting these cards, so they are available to people on this forum who qualify, regardless of whether these cards are difficult to obtain:
mbna-rewards-travel-platinum-plus-mc-gr ... st17005432 (Rewards Travel Platinum Plus)
mbna-rewards-world-elite-mc-1334506/36/#post17024233 (Rewards World Elite)


3) Simply because some cards are not officially advertised does not mean they should not be listed or discussed.
The Amex Centurion card is also an invite only card. I doubt I'll ever make enough or spend enough to qualify for that card, but that doesn't mean the card doesn't exist, shouldn't be ranked (in other categories), or shouldn't be discussed--unless, of course, one wishes to avoid all possibilities, use limited data, stick his or her head in the sand, or stifle useful discussion.

The concern about the 50% anniversary bonus is simply that a cardholder will almost always cancel his card prior to the "anniversary" (even if by dying).
Most intelligent cardholders will redeem fully and cancel immediately after the anniversary date if they're going to cancel. Similarly, if I ever cancel my 2% cash back Amex gold card, I will do so in January, after I receive my statement credit. The real issue is that money now is always worth more than money later. Although Capital One allows 1% cash back redemption at a faster rate, the anniversary bonus is held for a year.
So, for example, I could log on the Capital One website at any time, and redeem the earned cash rewards immediately
Which you would be earning at 1% (since the anniversary bonus is held back)
I can do nothing with my MBNA points except "sell" them back to MBNA at some point.
Rewards and Travel from MBNA can be redeemed at any time provided, of course, you have enough points to redeem
for whatever it is that you want.

Rewards: https://www.rewardscatalogue.com/Merch/MBNA/Home.aspx
A few gift cards can be redeemed at a rate that provides greater than 2% value (less than 5000 points for a
$50 gift card), and some items are in the 3000 point range.

Travel: https://www.onlinetravelandrewards.com/ ... nding.aspx (requires you to log in)

You can log into the MBNA website and can redeem for cash rewards, travel, or other items.

For cash, once you accumulate 5,000 points, you can redeem them for a $50 cheque or a $50 credit statement.
The only difference here is waiting for 5,000 points (or a $2500 spend); I clearly made this distinction in a previous post
in this thread. You are earning, with the MBNA cards, a cash back rate of 2%.

Also, you can earn cash back faster using MBNA's online rewards mall, which sometimes offers better cash back rates for specific retailers
than at other cash back websites: https://www.onlinembnarewardsmall.com

The rate at which you can redeem the 1% cash back from Capital One is, indeed, better, which was one of my points earlier in
this thread. But it's 1%. The remaining 0.5% you have to wait for. There's really no comparison here; the average MBNA 2%
cash back earner isn't going to be waiting an entire year to redeem, and it's 2% cash back.
And doesn't it make sense that MBNA being a self-interested, rational, profit-maximizing entity, would pay as little as it could for these points?
Transaction fees for World and World Elite cards are billed to merchants at higher rates since they are premium cards. Typically they're looking at Amex-like processing fees. So, rest assured MBNA is not losing money.
I generally keep a credit balance on my credit cards because the cost of missing a payment, for any number of reasons including not receiving the statement, far outweighs the opportunity cost of providing the credit card company with an interest-free loan. In any case, Capital One without consultation or approval, sent me a cheque for that credit balance a few weeks ago.
It's actually in their best interest to do this. After all, they want you to make use of their interest rates in the event you forget a payment.
That said, some credit card companies claim to charge a fee if a credit balance is kept in excess of 12 months (so kudos to Capital One for at least issuing a cheque instead).
The whole issue of credit card rewards may be moot given the fight between retailers and the credit card companies over transaction fees which are typically ascribed to the premium reward credit cards. The retailers claim that limiting credit card rewards would lower the retailers' credit transaction fees which would in turn allow the retailer to charge the customer a little bit less (passing the savings on, so to speak). While the argument is nonsense (after all, if the consumer is going to end up in the same economic position - fewer rewards but a slightly lower cost, as will the credit card companies - fewer transaction fee revenues are offset by fewer rewards required to maintain accounts, as will the retailers, then why create a ruckus?) and clearly duplicitous, there appears to be a real chance that the credit card rewards, such as they are, may be in peril.


I suspect many consumers will simply boycott any business (unless that business is truly loved) that attempts to charge for credit card use (premium or otherwise), unless all businesses are forced to behave in the same manner. I'm already avoiding certain computer stores that charge more for credit cards. For the most part, their prices are higher than what I can find online, and it's not as though, in my experience, the customer service policies of these stores are so much better (in fact, they tend to be worse) that they would warrant a 3% surcharge on all purchases for credit card use. As I stated before, all the merchants I know try to gouge me every chance they get, with the exception of those I do tons of business with. If they want to offer me a deal to offset their gouging, then I'll pay cash if they want. I don't care. Otherwise, oh well, they lose my business.

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