Warning: Rogers (data roaming bogus charges) RESOLVED

[jtienhaara]

Gee, I agree that the mobile telecomms industry is a well known racket, and $10K is insane. But that article is about someone who *used* their phone, and then received most of their money back from Bell. I do not consider myself lucky.

My wife's phone is an Android phone, a Sony Xperia X10. Mine is an older Sony Xperia X1.

TheLeftEyeGuy, we probably should have turned on Airplane Mode instead of turning the phones off. I don't know whether off really doesn't mean off on the XPeria 10 or (more likely) my wife's on button was tapped by accident at some point.

Mind you I don't entirely trust Airplane mode either. My phone, for example, goes into Airplane mode randomly.

Gobbledygoo, I agree: taking out the sim card is the best option, other than leaving your phone at home.


Other than provincial Small Claims Court, does anyone have any suggestions for avenues to get my money back from Rogers?

Cheers,

Johann

[Evil Baby]

Gee, I agree that the mobile telecomms industry is a well known racket, and $10K is insane. But that article is about someone who *used* their phone, and then received most of their money back from Bell. I do not consider myself lucky.

My wife's phone is an Android phone, a Sony Xperia X10. Mine is an older Sony Xperia X1.

TheLeftEyeGuy, we probably should have turned on Airplane Mode instead of turning the phones off. I don't know whether off really doesn't mean off on the XPeria 10 or (more likely) my wife's on button was tapped by accident at some point.

Mind you I don't entirely trust Airplane mode either. My phone, for example, goes into Airplane mode randomly.

Gobbledygoo, I agree: taking out the sim card is the best option, other than leaving your phone at home.


Other than provincial Small Claims Court, does anyone have any suggestions for avenues to get my money back from Rogers?

Cheers,

Johann

Unless you have some way of proving you didnt' use the data Rogers claims you used I don't see how you can expect to get any money back from them.

[onlineharvest]

Don't you think its POSSIBLE that you had something running in the background?
Don't take this personally, but I don't know how much I can believe you, that you had your phone off for the trip. Are you sure about that?
You're talking here, not to a Rogers rep.

You'll get nowhere in small claims. If they can demonstrate, based on your phone numerous unique identifiers, that data was in fact used, that's it, you've lost. Waste more money.

Most people I know who run into this sort of problem realize their error in judgement, call their carrier and plead for forgiveness! I've RARELY heard of a case where they do not drastically reduce the bill. Seen a $400 bill turn into $50 on one occasion.

Do what you can to get it down, pay it, and move on. Lesson learned.

[jtienhaara]

Don't you think its POSSIBLE that you had something running in the background?

With the phone off? Maybe... But that is just not what we expected when we turned the phones off.

Do what you can to get it down, pay it, and move on. Lesson learned.

The way monthly billing works, it was paid a long time ago, no way around that.

But who do I turn to, in order to get the bill reduced?

I was polite to the Rogers phone rep, who was rude to me in return and wouldn't even let me speak by the end of the conversation. She couldn't get a manager after an hour of me sitting on hold. The ombudsman did not reply to my email from over 1 month ago. Who else can I contact? Is there another hotline where I can talk to someone at Rogers, someone who has at least a newt's understanding of customer relationship management, and can actually make billing adjustments?

Thanks,

Johann

[ceredon]

With the phone off? Maybe... But that is just not what we expected when we turned the phones off.




The way monthly billing works, it was paid a long time ago, no way around that.

But who do I turn to, in order to get the bill reduced?

I was polite to the Rogers phone rep, who was rude to me in return and wouldn't even let me speak by the end of the conversation. She couldn't get a manager after an hour of me sitting on hold. The ombudsman did not reply to my email from over 1 month ago. Who else can I contact? Is there another hotline where I can talk to someone at Rogers, someone who has at least a newt's understanding of customer relationship management, and can actually make billing adjustments?

Thanks,

Johann

Maybe check your provincial consumer protection laws. I don't think anyone has challenged, at least not successfully, the obscene prices charged by the big 3 carriers. But I was browsing the Ontario laws last night and saw one section that was interesting.

Unconscionable representation
15. (1) It is an unfair practice to make an unconscionable representation. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 15 (1).
Same
(2) Without limiting the generality of what may be taken into account in determining whether a representation is unconscionable, there may be taken into account that the person making the representation or the person’s employer or principal knows or ought to know,
(a) that the consumer is not reasonably able to protect his or her interests because of disability, ignorance, illiteracy, inability to understand the language of an agreement or similar factors;
(b) that the price grossly exceeds the price at which similar goods or services are readily available to like consumers;
(c) that the consumer is unable to receive a substantial benefit from the subject-matter of the representation;
(d) that there is no reasonable probability of payment of the obligation in full by the consumer;
(e) that the consumer transaction is excessively one-sided in favour of someone other than the consumer;
(f) that the terms of the consumer transaction are so adverse to the consumer as to be inequitable;
(g) that a statement of opinion is misleading and the consumer is likely to rely on it to his or her detriment; or
(h) that the consumer is being subjected to undue pressure to enter into a consumer transaction. 2002, c. 30, Sched. A, s. 15 (2).

I've bolded the parts I found interesting about what classifies as an unconscionable representation that could be interpreted to apply to roaming charges.

The price certainly grossly exceeds the price available to like consumers. You could compare the rates to domestic rates in the US or even to roaming rates offered by the new Canadian carriers. Compared to either (and they are valid comparisons IMO because you are paying for use of the US network, exactly as US customers would or roaming as Canadians on Wind/Mobi/Public would), they are on the scale of 20X higher. The 'transaction' of roaming is also very one-sided. It favours ONLY the carriers for very little (literally) benefit to the end user.

Even if you never take it further, sending a certified letter to their HQ explaining that you are investigating taking this to court might get you some positive response.

[AV-Fishing]

TWO THINGS:

Buy an unlocked phone and take it on your trip.

Turn off your locked phone.

Get a local SIM when you arrive and you will be fine.

[dcyeung]

I'm with Rogers, I've been to the States countless times with my phone, and I've never had an issue. I've never even turned the roaming thing off. I do get the text though saying that roaming charges apply.

[Keigotw]

With my iPhone
When I go USA. I turn off cellular data and 3G off
Roaming is always off
Never had a problem

[Gee]

The way monthly billing works, it was paid a long time ago, no way around that.

But who do I turn to, in order to get the bill reduced?

If you have already paid the bill, you have no recourse. They already have your money and I doubt you will get anything back. Taking them to small claims court is useless. The cost to file the charges will probably exceed the balance you're claiming.

I'm with Rogers, I've been to the States countless times with my phone, and I've never had an issue. I've never even turned the roaming thing off. I do get the text though saying that roaming charges apply.

No smart phone? No data plan?

[bobmacgolf]

With my iPhone
When I go USA. I turn off cellular data and 3G off
Roaming is always off
Never had a problem

+1

[jtienhaara]

Maybe check your provincial consumer protection laws. <snip/>

Interesting thought, thanks ceredon! I will take a look at the consumer protection laws here in N.S.

Johann

[bigsky2]

Not entirely related to the OP's situation, but this is worth a read:

Bogus cellphone roaming charges irk border residents
Rogers says 'accidental roaming' is an industry-wide challenge

[psyko514]

1. My phone's roaming settings have been OFF since day 1. I *still* got charged $14.50 against my phone.

Just your data roaming or all roaming? Any phone calls or text messages received while roaming would trigger charges as well.

[JayLove06]

I don't trust Rogers so I take my battery out of the phone. It's pretty sad that things have to come to that.

[ChrisPhil]

If you are unfortunate enough to be a Rogers cell phone user, then do not take your phone with you when you travel outside Canada.

Rogers charged roaming data charges against our account when my wife and I visited the U.S. in early August.

When we crossed the border, a prompt appeared on my wife's phone saying she had to accept roaming charges. She declined. My phone's roaming setting was always disabled, from day 1. We both turned off our phones for the duration of the trip.

Our bill from September shows $191.38 roaming charges ($14.50 + $176.88) from our trip to the U.S. in August, despite the fact that we declined roaming charges and then kept our phones turned off for the duration of our 6 day trip.

For 3 months Rogers hassled my wife to pay the bill, and my wife told Rogers each time to phone me on my Rogers cell phone. Each time Rogers said they would call me. They never called me.

In December my wife received an automated message stating that our account would be terminated because we have not paid the full $191.38 roaming fees from August.

I phoned customer support and asked politely, then demanded, that the charges be dropped. The representative, Christy, kept interrupting me to say "the system shows that data was being used" during our trip. She was the rudest customer service representative I have ever dealt.

I asked to speak to her manager, and after an hour of sitting on hold, Christy returned to tell me that I would have to wait much, much longer to speak to a manager.

I then emailed the Rogers ombudsman 1 month ago.

No reply.


I will be filing a small claims suit against Rogers. If anyone has other suggestions as to how to get my money back, I would very much appreciate hearing them.


If you are stuck on a Rogers contract, do NOT take your cell phone with you when you travel outside Canada.


Johann Tienhaara
Halifax, N.S.

Fact # 1 when a phone is off it should not be using any of rogers services.

Fact # 2 the fact that you received that prompt means the phone was not off when you where in the states. From that point until you "turned off your phone" you may be using data.

What kind of phone are you using anyway?