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Water Heater cancellation massive fee

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  • Dec 7th, 2017 10:43 am
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[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa

Water Heater cancellation massive fee

Hello, I purchased my current home ~3 years ago. It has a nearly 10 year old water heater in it I was paying $15 per month to rent from National Home Services and later Reliance when they bought them out. I had been thinking of buying out mine or buying a new one, this week I got a notice my rental would increase to $20, that got me to look into buying it.

Today I called Reliance and I was quoted $950.80 to buyout this old 40 gallon water heater; I asked them about cancelling it and was told there would be a cancellation fee of $450. Is this right? This seems almost criminal, I have no choice but to accept the rental fee increase and can't cancel without paying more than the tank is worth?
97 replies
Penalty Box
Dec 19, 2009
2556 posts
921 upvotes
Contact them and get a copy of the signed contract for your water heater which would be under the previous owners name and look at the terms of the agreement. You may have a right to cancel the agreement if they increase the rental fees. If they can't produce a copy of the agreement then I would say you are free and clear.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa
I just got a copy of the signed agreement, don't see a duration in there and it says I will agree to a rate increase every year on Feb 1st. Under cancellation it says $250 account closing fee plus $200 removal fee. If it's such a great deal to rent these things why make it so hard to get out of the contract? Someone must be paying off the government for this to be so common.
Deal Addict
Oct 14, 2004
1165 posts
219 upvotes
Toronto
DarExc wrote:
Jan 14th, 2016 3:35 pm
I just got a copy of the signed agreement, don't see a duration in there and it says I will agree to a rate increase every year on Feb 1st. Under cancellation it says $250 account closing fee plus $200 removal fee. If it's such a great deal to rent these things why make it so hard to get out of the contract? Someone must be paying off the government for this to be so common.
They banged on a lot of doors, and also offered incentives to developers to put them into their homes that they sell...
Deal Addict
Sep 21, 2011
1042 posts
128 upvotes
DarExc wrote:
Jan 14th, 2016 2:15 pm
Hello, I purchased my current home ~3 years ago. It has a nearly 10 year old water heater in it I was paying $15 per month to rent from National Home Services and later Reliance when they bought them out. I had been thinking of buying out mine or buying a new one, this week I got a notice my rental would increase to $20, that got me to look into buying it.

Today I called Reliance and I was quoted $950.80 to buyout this old 40 gallon water heater; I asked them about cancelling it and was told there would be a cancellation fee of $450. Is this right? This seems almost criminal, I have no choice but to accept the rental fee increase and can't cancel without paying more than the tank is worth?
Is you tank natural gas or electric, I can't believe that it's that much to get out of a ten year old tank.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa
It is natural gas, it's only about 8 years old they said.
Penalty Box
Dec 19, 2009
2556 posts
921 upvotes
You would have thought your real estate agent would have had a copy of that and would have gone over the terms with you during purchase. But they are probably all in it together.
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2009
1041 posts
212 upvotes
DarExc wrote:
Jan 14th, 2016 3:35 pm
I just got a copy of the signed agreement, don't see a duration in there and it says I will agree to a rate increase every year on Feb 1st. Under cancellation it says $250 account closing fee plus $200 removal fee. If it's such a great deal to rent these things why make it so hard to get out of the contract? Someone must be paying off the government for this to be so common.
im not sure they can enforce the increase every feb 1 without a specific schedule and timeframe. otherwise does your agreement just go on forever?
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa
Looks like it does go on forever, it's really designed to lock you in.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa
So I did some hunting and found out Reliance got in trouble and these fees shouldn't apply.

from CT-2012—002 COMPETITION TRIBUNAL

THE COMMISSIONER OF COMPETITION
Applicant
— and —
RELIANCE COMFORT LIMITED PARTNERSHIP
Respondent
CONSENT AGREEMENT

OBLIGATIONS RELATING TO RENTAL FEES AND EXIT CHARGES
7 iii a Rental Agreement termination charge not more than $200, where the
Customer’s water heater is less than one year old, and not more than $40 where
the Customer’s water heater is more than one year old but less than ten years
old;
v.
where the Customer or its Agent proceeds pursuant to subparagraph 5(c)(ii) of
this Agreement, a pick-up charge (not including draining or disconnection) not
more than $65 in respect of a natural gas water heater, and not more than $125
in respect of an electric water heater;
Penalty Box
Dec 25, 2004
2269 posts
218 upvotes
DarExc wrote:
Jan 14th, 2016 9:12 pm
So I did some hunting and found out Reliance got in trouble and these fees shouldn't apply.

from CT-2012—002 COMPETITION TRIBUNAL

THE COMMISSIONER OF COMPETITION
Applicant
— and —
RELIANCE COMFORT LIMITED PARTNERSHIP
Respondent
CONSENT AGREEMENT

OBLIGATIONS RELATING TO RENTAL FEES AND EXIT CHARGES
7 iii a Rental Agreement termination charge not more than $200, where the
Customer’s water heater is less than one year old, and not more than $40 where
the Customer’s water heater is more than one year old but less than ten years
old;
v.
where the Customer or its Agent proceeds pursuant to subparagraph 5(c)(ii) of
this Agreement, a pick-up charge (not including draining or disconnection) not
more than $65 in respect of a natural gas water heater, and not more than $125
in respect of an electric water heater;
Thanks OP!!!

Does not apply to National contracts taken over by Reliance. Damn!! Thanks a pant load Competition Bureau.


"Exempt Agreements” means:
i. Rental Agreements entered into prior to the Effective Date that are subject to minimum 84 month terms;
ii. Rental Agreements acquired by Reliance through portfolio acquisitions between January 1, 2007 and the Effective Date; and
iii. National Rental Agreements"

I found the complete agreement here:

http://www.ct-tc.gc.ca/CMFiles/CT-2012- ... 4_3504.pdf


Some other salient points:

Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to terminate a Rental Agreement and to return to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of such Rental Agreement as follows:
a. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to terminate a Rental Agreement at any time by submitting a Notification of Termination;
b. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to submit a Notification of Termination by telephone, facsimile, e-mail or webform, and upon receipt of such Notification of Termination, Reliance shall:
i. record the date of the Notification of Termination; and
ii. provide the Customer or Agent who submitted the Notification of Termination with a unique identifier for the sole purpose of confirming the date of the Notification of Termination, such unique identifier to be provided by Reliance immediately in the case of receipt of the Notification of Termination by telephone and within two (2) days in the case of receipt of the Notification of Termination by facsimile, e-mail or webform to the reply address of the Customer or Agent indicated in the Notification of Termination facsimile, e-mail or webform. For greater clarity, Reliance shall not require the Customer or Agent to produce the unique identifier as a condition of returning to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement;
c. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to:
i. drain, disconnect, remove and/or return to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement; or
ii. request that Reliance drain, disconnect, remove and/or pick up at the Installed Address the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement;
d. if a Customer or its Agent proceeds in accordance with subparagraph 5(c)(ii) of this Agreement, within two (2) days of receipt of the Notification of Termination, Reliance shall use commercially reasonable efforts to contact the Customer or its Agent to arrange a mutually acceptable time, which is to be within a four (4) hour time window to occur within five (5) days following expiry of any applicable “cooling off” period prescribed pursuant to subsection 43(1) of the Consumer Protection Act or within ten (10) days of receipt of the Notification of Termination from a Customer or an Agent in the case of there being no applicable “cooling off” period prescribed pursuant to subsection 43(1) of the Consumer Protection Act, during which Reliance will attend at the Installed Address and drain, disconnect, remove and/or pick up the water heater that is the subject of the Notification 7
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Oct 16, 2008
5610 posts
995 upvotes
Maple
I think you are on monthly rental. The water heater contract (usually 10 years) expired but the previous owner was still paying monthly, no contract obligation. If that is the case you can ask them to come and pickup the old tank. you are not obligated to continue. Do you have the contract? Ask them for copy of contract. They are tactically scaring owner to continue paying rentals. Most of the time those Reliance customer service reps don't know anything.
DarExc wrote:
Jan 14th, 2016 2:15 pm
Hello, I purchased my current home ~3 years ago. It has a nearly 10 year old water heater in it I was paying $15 per month to rent from National Home Services and later Reliance when they bought them out. I had been thinking of buying out mine or buying a new one, this week I got a notice my rental would increase to $20, that got me to look into buying it.

Today I called Reliance and I was quoted $950.80 to buyout this old 40 gallon water heater; I asked them about cancelling it and was told there would be a cancellation fee of $450. Is this right? This seems almost criminal, I have no choice but to accept the rental fee increase and can't cancel without paying more than the tank is worth?
Sr. Member
Dec 19, 2010
561 posts
109 upvotes
Toronto, Ontario
i recently moved into a new build (8 months now) and am paying $43/month for my rental tank from reliance. biggest scam of life.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 2, 2011
58 posts
11 upvotes
Ottawa
peano wrote:
Jan 15th, 2016 11:01 am
Thanks OP!!!

Does not apply to National contracts taken over by Reliance. Damn!! Thanks a pant load Competition Bureau.


"Exempt Agreements” means:
i. Rental Agreements entered into prior to the Effective Date that are subject to minimum 84 month terms;
ii. Rental Agreements acquired by Reliance through portfolio acquisitions between January 1, 2007 and the Effective Date; and
iii. National Rental Agreements"

I found the complete agreement here:

http://www.ct-tc.gc.ca/CMFiles/CT-2012- ... 4_3504.pdf


Some other salient points:

Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to terminate a Rental Agreement and to return to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of such Rental Agreement as follows:
a. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to terminate a Rental Agreement at any time by submitting a Notification of Termination;
b. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to submit a Notification of Termination by telephone, facsimile, e-mail or webform, and upon receipt of such Notification of Termination, Reliance shall:
i. record the date of the Notification of Termination; and
ii. provide the Customer or Agent who submitted the Notification of Termination with a unique identifier for the sole purpose of confirming the date of the Notification of Termination, such unique identifier to be provided by Reliance immediately in the case of receipt of the Notification of Termination by telephone and within two (2) days in the case of receipt of the Notification of Termination by facsimile, e-mail or webform to the reply address of the Customer or Agent indicated in the Notification of Termination facsimile, e-mail or webform. For greater clarity, Reliance shall not require the Customer or Agent to produce the unique identifier as a condition of returning to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement;
c. Reliance shall permit a Customer or its Agent to:
i. drain, disconnect, remove and/or return to Reliance the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement; or
ii. request that Reliance drain, disconnect, remove and/or pick up at the Installed Address the water heater that is the subject of the Rental Agreement;
d. if a Customer or its Agent proceeds in accordance with subparagraph 5(c)(ii) of this Agreement, within two (2) days of receipt of the Notification of Termination, Reliance shall use commercially reasonable efforts to contact the Customer or its Agent to arrange a mutually acceptable time, which is to be within a four (4) hour time window to occur within five (5) days following expiry of any applicable “cooling off” period prescribed pursuant to subsection 43(1) of the Consumer Protection Act or within ten (10) days of receipt of the Notification of Termination from a Customer or an Agent in the case of there being no applicable “cooling off” period prescribed pursuant to subsection 43(1) of the Consumer Protection Act, during which Reliance will attend at the Installed Address and drain, disconnect, remove and/or pick up the water heater that is the subject of the Notification 7
Hi Peano, Actually, it should apply thanks to National being taken over after.

"ii. Rental Agreements acquired by Reliance through portfolio acquisitions between January 1, 2007 and the Effective Date."

the Effective Date is November 3rd, 2014. Reliance took over National on November 24th, 2014 so it is not exempt.

"12. Other than relating to Exempt Agreements, where there is a conflict between the terms of this
Agreement and the terms of any Rental Agreement:
a. executed prior to the Effective Date; or
b. acquired by Reliance from another Person,
Reliance shall be required to follow the terms of this Agreement. For greater clarity, and by way of
example only, if a pre-existing or newly-acquired Rental Agreement (other than an Exempt
Agreement) permitted Reliance to charge Customers Exit Charges in excess of those set out in
paragraph 7(a) above, the Exit Charges in paragraph 7(a) would comprise the maximum amount
Reliance could charge a Customer."

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