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WB/DC Joker (Joaquin Phoenix) origin movie Oct 4 2019 (outside DCEU continuity previously produced by Martin Scorsese)

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  • Nov 20th, 2019 5:09 pm
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theXshape wrote: I completely hate that theory.
That's because it's a rubbish theory.
Will rewatch when released for home, but I think the movie gives slight stylistic hints when depicting distortions.
May as well posit whether any of these discussions in this forum are "real".
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theXshape wrote: I completely hate that theory.
Hate to remind you then..........that's why those scenes were shot and included.
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Aznkid2000 wrote: anyone can explain the dance he does? talking about before he went on that talk show
“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”

― Friedrich Nietzsche
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lead wrote: Hate to remind you then..........that's why those scenes were shot and included.
The imaginary girlfriend yeah obviously, not the ''whole movie happens in his head''.
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theXshape wrote: The imaginary girlfriend yeah obviously, not the ''whole movie happens in his head''.
Wasn't it????....that was what the whole final ending frames.

The imaginary girlfriend was just a primer for the audience to stop and take a double check to prepare them. To introduce you to his whole delusion state. So the audience experiences for themselves his condition. That nothing for him was what it seems. That's a schizophrenic!

Then the final minutes his delusions morphing back into his hospital setting where he was dancing in the hospital vs the streets, his doctor from street clothes to uniform attendant etc. It was kinda like when you wake up from a slumber and your alarm is going off. The sound of the alarm somehow gets incorporated into your dream and you realize this as you awaken.

The scene where he has no shirt on? Everyone commented on how skinny the actor got???? Instead not noticing his body language, his clenched position with his arms, hunched over? Very similar position if in reality he was confined to a straight jacket. They made him shirtless to highlight his inability to see his constraints at all.

That's why those scenes were included. Otherwise what was the reason at all to include them? They arguably had no purpose other than to help introduce that climatic resolution. That he was arguably awaking from his psychotic episode and he had been hospitalized all along.

Its an ending just like Bruce willis in the sixth sense ....remember?

Very similar ending to that movie where he realizes he was dead the whole time?. But maybe that's why so many people are raving about this movie don't realize....That it borrowed alot from past successful premises like taxi driver and the sixth sense ending twist.
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The ending to The 6th Sense is not ambiguous at all in that regard. In the end Bruce has been dead all along and was a ghost the whole time, that's the punch of the movie and really no other way to see it. You can theorize about Joker's ending all you want, but you certainly can't say it's this or that and be a 100% sure because Phillips did it on purpose.

You prefer to think that the whole thing that you saw, from Arthur's struggle in his life, his lack of affection, his mental state, his distorted state of reality, the people that he killed, the riots that ensued and even the death of Thomas Wayne was all in his head, some story he imagined while institutionalized ? That's okay, but that's the ending that I prefer as I feel it takes away a lot of the movie if that's how you see it, but that's my 2 cents. We already know that Arthur is an unreliable narrator, but I believe the events that happened in the movie for the most parts were real and was not just some ''delusion'' he was telling to his psychiatrist.
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theXshape wrote: The ending to The 6th Sense is not ambiguous at all in that regard. In the end Bruce has been dead all along and was a ghost the whole time, that's the punch of the movie and really no other way to see it. You can theorize about Joker's ending all you want, but you certainly can't say it's this or that and be a 100% sure because Phillips did it on purpose.

You prefer to think that the whole thing that you saw, from Arthur's struggle in his life, his lack of affection, his mental state, his distorted state of reality, the people that he killed, the riots that ensued and even the death of Thomas Wayne was all in his head, some story he imagined while institutionalized ? That's okay, but that's the ending that I prefer as I feel it takes away a lot of the movie if that's how you see it, but that's my 2 cents. We already know that Arthur is an unreliable narrator, but I believe the events that happened in the movie for the most parts were real and was not just some ''delusion'' he was telling to his psychiatrist.
Your only seeing what you want it to be vs what it was also equally and the director left it that way on purpose. Its like this picture

Image

I see both but your chosing to only see one and to believe its only one and can only be one. Just like Authur's delusions started out to be.
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I am choosing one option because one makes it a better movie than the other IMO. So yeah I am choosing to go with how I see the movie. Even if you say you can see both ways, you clearly believe only one of them to be true which is not different then what I am saying now. I can see both, I just don't like that theory. Same for Phillips, he left it open purposely but he knows his interpretation and if he were to say tomorrow morning that the whole thing was fake, or the whole thing is true, it wouldn't change a thing for me. Art is like that, you go with what resonates with you, not what everyone else sees.

And if the whole thing is untrue, it means we know jack shit about this character. Nothing. I'm not a fan of making movies about nothing, I don't see the value in that. That's how I feel.
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theXshape wrote: I am choosing one option because one makes it a better movie than the other IMO. So yeah I am choosing to go with how I see the movie. Even if you say you can see both ways, you clearly believe only one of them to be true which is not different then what I am saying now. I can see both, I just don't like that theory. Same for Phillips, he left it open purposely but he knows his interpretation and if he were to say tomorrow morning that the whole thing was fake, or the whole thing is true, it wouldn't change a thing for me. Art is like that, you go with what resonates with you, not what everyone else sees.

And if the whole thing is untrue, it means we know jack shit about this character. Nothing. I'm not a fan of making movies about nothing, I don't see the value in that. That's how I feel.
I chose the other deeper path with layers,a jacobs ladder type movie as many have compared it too. His character doesn't even have to be the real DC joker but a creation or identification to the character in his mental illness state. Which it all very well could be too. That's an even deeper take than either. A delusion influenced from fiction during a psychotic episode.
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There is such a thing as over analysis.

gg great movie.
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